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The Pagan Connection

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posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by shihulud

Sun Matrix - What is it with this Babylon nonsense you keep bringing up in every thread, I know you explained it somewhere but I cant be arsed looking.
Why do you infer that every religion is based on some Babylonian notion, when there are religions and cultures that are older than Babylon's existance - like Egypt for example.
What is this conspiracy that you know off that no one else cares about?



G


It's an extreme fundamentalists' "conspiracy" theory. People like "Sun_Matrix" think that if it doesn't fall in line with their beliefs, it originated out of Babylon....It's a bunch of garbage in my opinion.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]




posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

I suggest and immediate name change because you are in confusion.

The teaching of Jesus did not come from Egypt. The teachings of Jesus came from Jesus.

The Egyptian BS came from Babylon the same place Sol Invictus and Apollo came from.

The Roman Empire could not kill Christianity so Constantine took it over. Constantine was Pontifus Maximus the high priest of sun worship. He changed the worshipping of the Son of God on the Sabbath to worshipping the sun god on SUNday which is Baals day or Lords day. Baal means Lord.

Yea, it's all about control. It's about controlling the blind to keep them from seeing the truth of the Messiah.


Since you are so "wise".
Why don't you inform me as to where Jesus was during the years between 12-30? Do you know? I lay you odds you come up with something off the top of your head like, "Well, he was in Palestine...." or something. Can you verify?

How are you going to prove that Jesus was not in Egypt? Please, pray tell, do tell me that. I am eager to hear your reply.



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by shihulud

Sun Matrix - What is it with this Babylon nonsense you keep bringing up in every thread, I know you explained it somewhere but I cant be arsed looking.
Why do you infer that every religion is based on some Babylonian notion, when there are religions and cultures that are older than Babylon's existance - like Egypt for example.
What is this conspiracy that you know off that no one else cares about?



G


Egypt did not come before Babylon. Better do some more research, and yes their are timeline descrepancies.

Pick a religion and you can trace it to Babylon.



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


It's an extreme fundamentalists' "conspiracy" theory. People like "Sun_Matrix" think that if it doesn't fall in line with their beliefs, it originated out of Babylon....It's a bunch of garbage in my opinion.



The facts say different. I prefer to follow the facts.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by shihulud
Why do you infer that every religion is based on some Babylonian notion, when there are religions and cultures that are older than Babylon's existance - like Egypt for example.
What is this conspiracy that you know off that no one else cares about?


I believe you are correct in saying that Egypt was older:

Here's some data from Wike..

Babylon
The earliest mention of Babylon is in a dated tablet of the reign of Sargon of Akkad (24th century BC short chr.). Over the years, its power and population waned. From around the 20th century BC, it was occupied by Amorites (nomadic Semitic tribes), flooding southern Mesopotamia from the west. The First Babylonian Dynasty was established by Sumu-abum, but the city-state controlled little surrounding territory until it became the capital of Hammurabi's empire (ca. 18th century BC). From that time onward, it continued to be the capital of Babylonia, although during the 440 years of domination by the Kassites (1595–1155 BC), the city was renamed "Karanduniash".
The city itself was built upon the Euphrates, and divided in equal parts along its left and right banks, with steep embankments to contain the river's seasonal floods. Babylon grew in extent and grandeur over time, but gradually became subject to the rule of Assyria.

Egypt
Archaeological evidence indicates that a developed Egyptian society extends far into prehistory. The Nile River, around which much of the population of the country clusters, has been the lifeline for Egyptian culture since nomadic hunter-gatherers began living along the Nile during the Pleistocene. Traces of these early peoples appear in the form of artifacts and rock carvings along the terraces of the Nile and in the oases.

The regularity and richness of the annual Nile River flood, coupled with semi-isolation provided by deserts to the east and west, allowed for the development of one of the world's great civilizations. A unified kingdom was founded circa 3200 BC by King Narmer, and a series of dynasties ruled in Egypt for the next three millennia.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Pick a religion and you can trace it to Babylon.


Hinduism.

Please trace its origins back to babylon for me.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Pick a religion and you can trace it to Babylon.


Now THAT is funny.

Shinto
Native American religons
Taoism
Buddism
African Tribal religons

The only religons you can trace back to babylon are Babylonian religons.

Oh for that matter, Im guessing your religon comes from Babylon too. In fact, there is evidence it does. Much of the bible was ripped off from Babylonian/Egyptian/Persian myths anyway.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Ersatz, I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. The Rabbis(teachers) that you mention and many others taught an older form of Judism than that of Herods
temple.

There is a much larger span of time in the life of R. Jeshua that is unaccounted for than just 12 - 30. there are (to my knowledge) no accounts from about age 5 ( Gospel of the Infancy as I recall) until about age 24-26. The account of his discussions with the Rabbis in the temple commonly misplace his age at 12 yrs. In older versions ( when I
was a kid) the verse said " in his twelveth year. This according to Jewish custom would
place his age as in the 12th year in the community or 24-26 years of age depending
on when he BarMitzapha'd. He could and probably would have married at any time in that 12 + years. Having completed his family duties and requirements he began his ministry at or about 30.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by shihulud

Sun Matrix - What is it with this Babylon nonsense you keep bringing up in every thread, I know you explained it somewhere but I cant be arsed looking.
Why do you infer that every religion is based on some Babylonian notion, when there are religions and cultures that are older than Babylon's existance - like Egypt for example.
What is this conspiracy that you know off that no one else cares about?



G


Egypt did not come before Babylon. Better do some more research, and yes their are timeline descrepancies.

Pick a religion and you can trace it to Babylon.

Well give us some links to this information of yours, your PROOF. The earliest I can find for Babylon is around 2600 BCE when it was just a small village.

And as for a religion to trace - what about bull worship at Catalhoyuk (sp.?) circa 8000 BCE. Didnt the Isrealites steal this for the golden calf episode????


G



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by puneetsg

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Pick a religion and you can trace it to Babylon.


Hinduism.

Please trace its origins back to babylon for me.


Happy to though I hate looking at eastern religions.

Hinduism comes from Zoroastrianism. Many people think that it's the other way around because a Persian named Zoroaster who was born in 628 BC

But we can trace Zoroaster to way before that. This from Wikipedia



Estimates for the lifetime of Zoroaster vary widely, depending upon the sources used. 1400 BC–1000 BC is cited by Mary Boyce in her A History of Zoroastrianism



Archaeological evidence is usually inconclusive for questions of religion. However, a Russian archaeologist, Victor Sarianidi, links Zoroaster to ca. 2000 BC based upon excavations of the BMAC


If you do enough looking you can trace Zoroaster to Nimrod the King of Babylon.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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Greetings MidnightDStroyer



I think you'll find the following thread to be quite interesting:


Buddhism, FreeMasonry and Gnosis



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 05:44 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Happy to though I hate looking at eastern religions.

Hinduism comes from Zoroastrianism. Many people think that it's the other way around because a Persian named Zoroaster who was born in 628 BC

But we can trace Zoroaster to way before that. This from Wikipedia



Estimates for the lifetime of Zoroaster vary widely, depending upon the sources used. 1400 BC–1000 BC is cited by Mary Boyce in her A History of Zoroastrianism



Archaeological evidence is usually inconclusive for questions of religion. However, a Russian archaeologist, Victor Sarianidi, links Zoroaster to ca. 2000 BC based upon excavations of the BMAC


If you do enough looking you can trace Zoroaster to Nimrod the King of Babylon.


Actually, you are Hinduism and Zoroastrianism are the same. 2 interpretations of the same religion.

And do you mean to tell me that 2000 BC is predates hinduism?? Estimates put the practice of Hinduism to atleast 3000 BCE, and many beyond that.



posted on Sep, 20 2006 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by St Udio
imho, the big 'secret' is that the elitist types who found Organized-Religion
to be their salvation (from a life of hard toil and other demands)...

This is my opinion also, based on the fact that religious organizations didn't actually begin to "rule" until the Neolithic Age...This is when the practice of "job specialization" started & it left the "church" free to concentrate totally on religious doctrines while still being left free from supporting for their own "basic human needs". Before Mesopotamia & Egypt began becoming "civilized", everyone depended upon the judgement of the "tribal chief" (with the Shaman's advice, of course) to continue surviving.
The religious organization just simply "specialized" in their jobs the same way that potters, carpenters & merchants did.


Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The Nicean Council was by far the biggest scourge to ever take place not only for Christianity, but for religion in general.

Okay, so you've brought up something I've never heard of during those "decades of self-teaching"...I thank you for bringing it up & I'll check into it.



Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The teaching of Jesus did not come from Egypt. The teachings of Jesus came from Jesus.

You're right about this...In all probability, it would've been Moses' teachings that would've been influenced by Egypt! All lot of the "doctrines" that Moses taught actually were common custom in Egypt! (Yes, Egypt is one of my own "specialties" in historical research
)
From the archeological diggings around Qumran (where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found), it's in the right general vincinity where Jesus was thought to have "gone into the wilderness" & he may have actually spent some time there.
Historically speaking, Qumran was the center where one of the earliest "versions" of Christianity was beginning to form. These "proto-Christian" branches were directly sprouted from the Jewish Hebrew religion. Although there is no conclusive evidence from the Dead Sea Scrolls that links Qumran with the Essenes branch of "proto-Chistianity" & also no conclusive evidence that Jesus actually visited, learned (or taught) there, the possible likelihood exists.
As far as the Jewish Hebrew religion goes, and there's no conclusive evidence of this, it's archeologically probable that it began as a monotheistic religion in Mesopotamia.


Originally posted by Ersatz
There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus.

When you consider how much controversy that would surround any person that was even "Jesus-like", then consider how much that the "ruling powers" practice the habit of re-writing history, it wouldn't come to my surprise to learn that the Romans would simply have destroyed all documentation about Jesus. I'm not saying that it happened like this, but it does seem to be well within the realm of "reasonable probability".


Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Secret Book of John

If it's so "secret", how did you find out about it?

Seriously though, if you have some kind of reference source to provide, I'd like to see it.


Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Egypt did not come before Babylon. Better do some more research, and yes their are timeline descrepancies.

Egypt did come before Babylon. Only Mesopotamia beat out Egypt as the "world's oldest civilization", and even then, only by a couple of hundred years or so; If you use the "invention of formal writing" as your baseline opinion, that is. However, Egypt was the first civilization to unify into a single geopolitical unit, everyone else remaining divided as "mere" City-States.


Originally posted by Tamahu
I think you'll find the following thread to be quite interesting...

I'm a bit pressed for time at the moment, but I'll look it up. Thanks...



Originally posted by Sun Matrix
This from Wikipedia...

Thanks for your link, but I don't like restricting myself to a single source...I also use Google Scholar, various other links to specific religions that very rarely show up on Google, libraries & books that I have for my own library too. Using single-source references leaves you open to...how shall I put it?...possible "biasing".



posted on Sep, 21 2006 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Secret Book of John


If it's so "secret", how did you find out about it?
Seriously though, if you have some kind of reference source to provide, I'd like to see it.


Had to go back and see what you were refering to. It comes from on of the NON-CANONICAL writings but I dont remember which collection off hand. I will try
and find it for you .



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