The Pagan Connection

What is it with organized religion, anyway? As an uneducated guesstimate, I may be so bold to say that, of the world population that actually follows an organized religion, at least 95% (or more) of humanity actually worships the same God! Granted, when you have such a large population (pushing toward seven billion now) spread out all over every land mass on the planet, there are bound to be disagreements. Psychologists & sociologists tend to be pretty much in agreement on one thing...If you put more than one person in a room, there will be disagreements sooner or later.

Also granted, worship originating with that same religion has sprouted a lot of branches & splinters during history; You are aware that religions that worship God, Allah, Jehovah, or by whatever other names, all originate from the ancient worship of YWH by the Hebrews, right? That very same God has had such a successful “career” (with a few early setbacks against pantheism, way back in history) that nearly everyone who worships at all, worships Him. This is quite probably the biggest single agreement among so many diverse societies of people.

Of all the supposed “divine laws” handed down to humanity throughout history, I’ve heard of only one occasion when this God actually gave us His Word, written by His own Hand; The Ten Commandments. Everything else, all other scriptures originating in whatever culture or time period, the giving of His Law to Moses is the only time I've heard of when God personally set His Law in stone (literally and figuratively) for all of humanity. Even everything else that Moses claims to be “God’s Laws”, but was not part of the Ten Commandments, is still “second hand knowledge”; God didn’t write any of those other “laws.” All else was written by the hands of men (and in more modern times, a few women as well); Human beings, just as fallible & misunderstanding as pretty much any other Human, scribed all of it.

I believe this is why there are so many "versions" of Holy Scripture...So many Bible versions, the Koran, Kabbalah, Torah, Dead Sea Scrolls, on & on (Please note that all of the scriptures I specifically named concern worship under the same God!). So spreads more misunderstanding. It may be conjectured that misunderstandings came about because organized religion had to “evolve” with the differing cultures, as even those cultures became more sophisticated as they grew. This is, most logically, the root of so much diversity under that same base religion, as well as the cause of all the disagreements between them.

Even considering the widespread, massive amounts of garbling in beliefs (some accidental, some deliberate), I still ask, “What’s the problem?” Why so many Crusades, Jihads, “forced conversions?” Why so much oppression, repression, spread of misery, shedding of human blood & suffering? All done in the name of a God who tells us, “Thou shalt not kill.” Every branch & splinter has a long history of blood behind it, all in the name of God.

This very same God also commands, “Thou shalt have no other Gods before Me.” If you think about this, God doesn’t require you to worship Him, because He doesn’t need worship to continue existing (After all, He existed long before Man was even a twinkle in His eye & He didn’t need Human worship back then either)...But He does say that if you’re going to worship any God, worship Him. So this particular Divine Law should give us a good reason to get along with each other & work out our differences without killing each other. War does not bring peace, other than the peace of death; Peace can’t come to those who survive because they either broke God’s Law or they suffer the loss of loved ones who did die.

After the past few decades that I’ve been “self-teaching” & researching, I’ve developed an increasingly stronger impression that it’s not really some kind of “conspiracy” that originates from within the structure of these religions for God, but that God’s religions are actually the victims of an older conspiracy...One that originates from the decedents of the ancient “mystery cult” religions.

These “mystery cults” based their worship upon the “secret mysteries” attributed to their chosen primary deity of the pantheon. Mesopotamia had “mystery cults”; Egypt had them; Greece had them; aboriginal societies in Australia & North America had them. Before the advent of the ancient Hebrew worship of YWH, every ancient society had pantheon worship. In time, during the passing of millennia, these “mystery cults” seem to have “evolved” into a number of “secret societies”.

Before you shrug off this line of thought, consider this; Of the secret societies that have been exposed & banned (Adam Weshaupt’s Bavarian Illuminati, for only one (in)famous example) at different times in history, one thing was found to be pretty common among them–The practice of rituals claimed to be as ancient as Mesopotamia & Egypt; rituals based on the worship of pantheon religions. Today, however, those “ancient rituals” are still being practiced, even though it’s likely that the “lay member” of the secret society has little or no idea where they came from.

Of the secret societies that are still active today, do you honestly think they would have abandoned traditions & beliefs as long-standing as these “rituals?” These rituals were practiced from a time before recorded history all the way up until at least the modern “cults” that were caught & revealed! If you also look back on the early times of religion in Mesopotamia & Egypt (the two oldest civilizations in the known archeological records), pantheon religions ruled over all aspects of life for the common people...Spiritual and secular issues were controlled by their religions.

During the medieval age & the Renaissance Period, the rulers & Churches who uncovered such secret societies banned them as subversive, invasive, heretical cults, attempting to infiltrate themselves into controlling literally every facet of contemporary society; In short, some of the “mysteries” were revealed!. It's also known, during those contemporary times, that the kings ruling these nations enjoyed support from the monotheism religions, through the concept of "divine right to rule"; President Bush, for example, is a Knight under the English crown as well as holding membership in the Skull & Bones (Skull & Bones? Symbol of the Barbary pirates, perhaps?) secret society.
Even many lawyers today carry foreign titles with their memberships in foreign-originated Bar Associations (commonly, “esquire” for English title); Is it coincidence that many such lawyers now hold US Government Offices today? Even though the Constitution (Section 9, last paragraph) forbids them from Government positions? Holding such a title while in Federal Office is Breach of Oath at least & using the Office to the benefit their foreign loyalties constitutes Treason ("giving aid & comfort" to enemies). With "royal" & "noble" blood in these secret societies, what to you think the oncoming NWO plans for everyone else? Slavery/serfdom, of course. What do you think President Bush means when he says that the new US economy is going to be based on the "service industry, so get used to it?" Service to whom? The way the Government runs things, it’s certainly not service to God! So what does this suggest to you, when you consider the “pantheism religion-based rituals” still practiced within (many?/most?/all? of) the secret societies that remain today?

Do you think their practices have changed much, considering what they were like throughout known & documented history? How much have these secret societies really changed? Isn’t President Bush a member of the Skull & Bones? What of the Bilderburgs? What of the other numerous secret societies that are already known to have members in control of governments, mainstream religions & even commercial industries (especially Banks!)? Have you seen examples of how much the symbology of these "cults" have been incorporated into our architecture (airports, banks, public buildings) & public-display artworks (murals, paintings, sculptures)? If you live in a large city, nearly everywhere you look, there are ties of symbology that stretch back through time to the ancient "mystery cults".

The USA, being a nation founded solidly upon the basic tenants of Judeo-Christianity, recently removed the Ten Commandments from display at the Supreme Court, under the order of the Supreme Justice (Does this sound like the “service to God” that I mentioned two paragraphs ago?); What the US Founding Forefathers meant by “separation of Church & State was that neither one would be allowed to control the other, as in the State declaring any religion as “official” or the Church granting direct support by “divine right to rule”. So where better but in front of the highest court in the land should God's Laws be placed, as if to emphasize that God’s Law supersedes the law of Man? Did this happen because the monotheism basis of the Judeo-Christian principles "offends the sensibilities" of a government that secretly worships or is under the influence pantheism worship? Do these examples sound like they are still practicing infiltration for the purpose of control?

Of all of the possible conspiracies that stem from any organized religion, this one seems to be very subtle, but subversively effective; After all, when it comes to having practice at controlling large populations, such "mystery cults” have had millennia of multi-generational experience beyond any monotheism religion. Even before pantheism, there was animism & ancestor worship existing long before recorded history, all dedicated to worship & veneration of multiple entities.

You are quite wrong in many areas.

First off, 95% of the world does NOT worship the same god. here are some stats.

en.wikipedia.org...

Christians: 33%
Muslims: 21%
Judism: .22%

Not religous (Athiest or no religon): 16%
Hindu: 14%
Chinese Traditional: 6%
Tribal: 6%
Buddist: 6%
Other: 6%

In otherwords, only 54% of the world worships the same god (Muslims, Christians, and Jews).

46% of the world does not.

46% of the world worhsips what might be percieved as your so called "Mystery School" religons, or are godless themselves.

I am a Pagan and practice the faith of pre Christian Europe. I do not base my worship on secret mysteries. In fact, there is nothing secret about them. The answers to our "secret mysteries" are right in front of everyone who cares to look. Its about nature, natural laws of nature and the universe, ect.

The church persecuted anyone who disagreed with them, "mystery school" or not. The church itself was once a subversive element in the Roman Empire.

It is not esoteric secret societies I see trying to run my life. Its fundementalist Christian fanatics who think "gods laws" should be forced on everyone. And choice should be deprived.

The US was NOT founded on Judeo Christian tenets either. it was founded on Classical Greek and Roman ideas of liberty and democratic republic style governments. If we were ruled by Judeo Christian ideas, women would still be in the home with no voice, at it says in the bible, we would be living under levitical law, and all other forms of worship would be persecuted.

Bu the way, Moses was not the only person of any religon to recieve laws from his god. Just about every other religon on earth has tales of their own gods or spirits coming down and giving humans knowldge and rules to live by. Ever read the Eddas, the tales of the Norse religon? Odin, the all father of the Norse gods brought the runes and their meanings to mankind.

One example.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Bu the way, Moses was not the only person of any religon to recieve laws from his god. Just about every other religon on earth has tales of their own gods or spirits coming down and giving humans knowldge and rules to live by. Ever read the Eddas, the tales of the Norse religon? Odin, the all father of the Norse gods brought the runes and their meanings to mankind.

Sorry to intrude,
Hi Skadi, I apologize for my ignorance, what is the difference between Odin and Wotan
and Erda has nothing to do with the Eddas, does she??

"What is it with organized religion, anyway? As an uneducated guesstimate, I may be so bold to say that, of the world population that actually follows an organized religion, at least 95% (or more) of humanity actually worships the same God! Granted, when you have such a large population (pushing toward seven billion now) spread out all over every land mass on the planet, there are bound to be disagreements. Psychologists & sociologists tend to be pretty much in agreement on one thing...If you put more than one person in a room, there will be disagreements sooner or later".

Maybe when Midnight Destroyer says people worship the same God he meant the same " Idea of God" good will and all that, or what did you mean?

Originally posted by Ersatz


Sorry to intrude,
Hi Skadi, I apologize for my ignorance, what is the difference between Odin and Wotan
and Erda has nothing to do with the Eddas, does she??

Ultimately, Wotan/Wodan/Odin are basically the same god. Different names in the different germanic tounges, and some of the legends or archetypes are different. But the main difference is linguistic.

The germanic tribes (the Norse/Vikings, Goths, Visigoths, Lombards, Ostragoths, Jutes, Angles, Franks, Saxons, ect) all came from the same core group, and thus, at one time shared the same myths/legends/spiritual vision. As they branched off into their own distinct tribes, the names for the gods changed with dialect, and some of the associations and legends changed slightly. But uiltimately, they share the same roots.

Erda was the continental Germanic earth mother goddess, also known as Jord, Holda, Nerthus, and other names/aspects.

And dont apologize for ignorance, as its not ignorance. its an honest question.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Ultimately, Wotan/Wodan/Odin are basically the same god. Different names in the different germanic tounges, and some of the legends or archetypes are different. But the main difference is linguistic.
The germanic tribes (the Norse/Vikings, Goths, Visigoths, Lombards, Ostragoths, Jutes, Angles, Franks, Saxons, ect) all came from the same core group, and thus, at one time shared the same myths/legends/spiritual vision. As they branched off into their own distinct tribes, the names for the gods changed with dialect, and some of the associations and legends changed slightly. But uiltimately, they share the same roots.

Erda was the continental Germanic earth mother goddess, also known as Jord, Holda, Nerthus, and other names/aspects.

And dont apologize for ignorance, as its not ignorance. its an honest question.

I find it fascinating, I just wish I had more time to find out..

Why was he blind in one eye and has a raven on his shoulder?

In your opinion does the Ring Cycle represent the mythology?

Is it true that Viking is a verb and not a name?

Odin indeed had only one eye. He sacrificed his left eye at the well of Mimir to drink from its wisdom. he hung for 9 days at the well, which was at the base of the world tree, Yggdrasil, so he would gain knowledge of all things and become the master of all. It is how he also gained the secret of the runes.

He did indeed have two ravens who flew aroubnd the world and reported back to him everything that he saw. Their names were Huginn and Muginn, thought and memory.

He also was accompanied by two wolves, geri and freki.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Odin indeed had only one eye. He sacrificed his left eye at the well of Mimir to drink from its wisdom. he hung for 9 days at the well, which was at the base of the world tree, Yggdrasil, so he would gain knowledge of all things and become the master of all. It is how he also gained the secret of the runes.
He did indeed have two ravens who flew aroubnd the world and reported back to him everything that he saw. Their names were Huginn and Muginn, thought and memory.
He also was accompanied by two wolves, geri and freki.

Why do you not start a thread about Norse mythology, it would be very interesting and you already have a customer.

Was the Odin you speak about chief of the Aesir, a people of Asia Minor, who threatened by the Romans left their native lands around 70 BC and came to Europe?
The Odin that cut himself in the breast ( cerimony called carving Geir Odds ) and his native land was Asgard?

Actually, you are correct, Ersatz. Odin is actually believed to be a historical figure from Asia who eventually became god-like.

Heres a few links for your viewing pleasure.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk...&goddesses/odin.html

I will start a thread on Norse mythology if you like, though it will take a little while and will be brief.

I myself favor the Vanir, the earth and fertility gods and goddesses, hence my name. (Skadi was the Norse goddess of mountains, skiing, winter, hunting, and vengance, who married Njord, father of Frey and Freya). Elves were servants of the Vanir.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

I myself favor the Vanir, the earth and fertility gods and goddesses, hence my name. (Skadi was the Norse goddess of mountains, skiing, winter, hunting, and vengance, who married Njord, father of Frey and Freya). Elves were servants of the Vanir.

A new thread would definetely be nice, do let me know when you start it (maybe a u2u)

I thought Skadi was one of the wives of Odin, toghether with Frigga, Saga or Laga, Grid etc..he did have a few wives anyway.
I know about Saga because she was a goddess of hystory( hence the verb "to say"
but apart from this my knowledge is pretty limited.

Hmmm...I was more intent on getting a general idea across that went past the precise wording.

When I used the word "pagan", it was referring to the way the early Catholics used it in context...Anything not Catholic. So please don't be offended by that, Skadi.

As for the percentage breakdowns you posted, I appreciate that you actually looked it up...But I did say that it was an "uneducated guesstimate."

To address another pick-apart, I did not say that 95% of all people worship the same God, I guesstimated 95% that follows a kind of worship...Remember, I did say it was a guesstimate right at the start, because I didn't actually look it up when I first typed out my post (The computer that I wrote it with doesn't have internet access).

Yes, the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, but the Founding Fathers didn't want the new nation to be ruled by any particular religion...Hence the concept of "separation of Church & State". Merely reading through the documents that lead to the independance of the US confirms the moral basis that prompted the writings: Magna Carta is the document that helped urged more numerous movement to the US East Coast...The Declaration of Independance indicates the moral basis of "God-given Rights" that the English Crown ignored...The Articles of Confederation that served as an initial form of organized leadership that led up to the Constitution also indicate the moral principles the Founding Fathers had...

Finally, the Constitution itself served as a restriction put upon how the government could function, being that the government was to protect God-given Rights (& specifiies that the Government cannot take away those Rights). It was also meant to serve as a more detailed "organized leadership" for the secular needs of the People. The "checks & balances" system of the Federal Government was the best way that the Founding Forefathers saw to make sure that the Government wouldn't get out of the Peoples' control (Even though it did anyway, because the People forgot to remain vigilant; The government became corrupted by the corporations that came over from England & the corps were backed up by English military...This is what prompted the War of Independance in the first place).

The Constitution was not meant to follow Greek or Roman versions of "Democracy", because the additional writings by the Founders indicate that they feared Democracy as much as we would fear Communism today...They knew that democracy would always eventually turn into a totalitarian government. This is why the Constitution specifies a Republic form of Government. As a side note, most people learn about how much western society has been influenced by the Classical Greek culture; But what most people don't realize is that "Classical Greek culture" came after Greece finally came out of its "Dark Age"...When Greece finally climbed back out of that period, they wildly borrowed ideas from other Mediterranian cultures that were more advanced than they were at the time. The heaviest influence on Greek Culture was Egypt!

As far as the references between Norse religion goes, it's probably not a religion still in practice today (with perhaps a few individual exceptions) & Ersatz was right that it should be moved to another thread...But I would appreciate if you come back & make a link in this thread, if the Norse thread gets started.

Back on track; No, I can't find any documentation or evidence that indicates a direct link between secret societies & the mystery religions. Like any conspiracy theory, it's more of a jigsaw puzzle. Secret Societies, by definition, are not likely to be posting what they know & what they do on the internet, after all! Some of the info I got is derived from what I could find about the secret societies that got caught & disbanded (or got caught & reorganized themselves to be even more secretive).

It's difficult to find links to the information I have, because most of it doesn't even get on the internet & I have to rely on education, self-education (because "mainstream education" sucks!) & wide variety of sources (including libraries & other books!) to get any of this pieced together.

I posted this here, because I also somewhat rely on other researchers to see what they can find that may pertain to my theory. What one person can conceive through a certain line of reasoning can be more widely enhanced (or debunked) when even more people start digging too...

MidnightDStroyer asks "What is it with organized religion, anyway?"

that's a hugh can-of-worms,
since 'religion' has infected all aspects of life, culture & civilization.

in a sense, organized religion is another form of Government.
actual government and actual religions are like 'right-brain & left-brain' needs.

religions established themselves as a early type of police force, gov't,
and moral rudder for the larger social order. And in it's wake Religion
provided a nice-secure-no sweat lifestyle for the people that decided
they could endure the requisites of being a 'Clergy' for this cult of faithful.

(sorta like the caste/class of 'Actors' throughout the ages)

imho, the big 'secret' is that the elitist types who found Organized-Religion
to be their salvation (from a life of hard toil and other demands)
and the whole cult of elites ~in whichever religion~
considered themselves as the shepherds, tenders of the herd, protectors of the flocks,
and were/are the chosen elect(because of a delusional but very real 'calling')
are Destined to;
husband-direct-protect- & think for
all of humanity, who are just like uncontrolled animals which are seen in nature
as herds of beasts following instinctual nature
instead of the higher callings (in their opinion) of their cults'/aka Religions' G()D.....


[just like modern Gov't...a method of command & control
& the power generated by the numbers of followers/crusaders/voters/& the Purse !]


Pagan, Heretic, Infidel, lost soul...all these could apply to me....

MD I can agree with you vis-a-vis your 95 % figure. Also I can agree with the figures
Skadi posted. The connecting link is this.
All of the worlds Belief systems(religions) eminate from a single source. ( one mountain , many paths). Unfortunately the original source has been polluted/perverted many times over the centuries by power hungry priests and clergy.

Over the time there have been several that have tapped into the root ancient ways
and tried to bring things back to these ways ( R. Jeshua bar Joseph, The Budda, Mohamet, Ghandi, etc.) most have been killed for their trouble, usually by thost that
prefer the power and wealth of the status quo.


for your personal edification and as a response to the one God, thou shaly have ...
post I humbly offer the following,

Hypostasis of the Arcons,

[ because of his] power and his ignorance [and his arrogance]
he said..., " It is I who am God; there is none [other apart from
me]." When he said this he sinned against [the Entirety]. And
a voice came forth from above the realm of absolute power,
saying, " You are mistaken, Samael," which means " god of the blind"


On the Origin of the World
... he boasted continually, saying to (the angels)... I am God, no other
one exists except me." But When he said these things, he sinned
against all of the immortal ones... when Faithsaw the impiety of the chief ruler,
she was angry.... she said, "You err, Samael (blind god)." An enlightened,
immortal humanity exists before you.


Secret Book of John

in his madness ... he said, "I am God and there is no other God beside me,"
for he is ignorant of ... the place from which he had come.... And when he saw
the creation which surrounds him and the multitudes of angels around him
which had come forth from him, he said to them, " I am a jelous God, and there
is no other God beside me." But by announcing this he indicatedto the angels that
another God does exist; for if there were no other one, of whom would he be
jealous?

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
When I used the word "pagan", it was referring to the way the early Catholics used it in context...Anything not Catholic. So please don't be offended by that, Skadi.

Well, not really offended. Believe me, Ive had worse accusations!

As for the percentage breakdowns you posted, I appreciate that you actually looked it up...But I did say that it was an "uneducated guesstimate."

To address another pick-apart, I did not say that 95% of all people worship the same God, I guesstimated 95% that follows a kind of worship...Remember, I did say it was a guesstimate right at the start, because I didn't actually look it up when I first typed out my post (The computer that I wrote it with doesn't have internet access).

Fair enough.

But in actuality, since perhaps 20% of the world is athiest or agnostic (perhaps more) Id say there is a large sector of non-belief.

The reason I say this is that in order for me to consider someone as part of a faith or religon, one must at least practice and believe in its tenents in a reasonable degree. Many people will say they are Christian or Muslim, but say this because thats what their parents are, or what religon they were born to. I do not believe faith is inheritable. Faith is free choice.

And I can honestly say, in my experience, that the world is far less religous than is believed. For example, as ex-boyfriend of mine told me he was Christian when I asked him if he had a religous preference. This somewhat surprised me. I queried further. he had never read the bible. He only ever went inside a church for weddings funerals, and one Christmas as a kid. He did not believe in Jesus, and had no set belief in god. And he certainly did not live anything remotely resembling a Christian life. I asked him why he thought he was Christian. he said cuz his parents were Church of England (even though they never attended, read the bible, prayed, ect). I explained to him that religon is not an ethnic group, and signing onto a church membership does not make one Christian.

Same with Muslims. if you do not read or believe the Koran or try to at least follow some of it, youre not a Muslim.

My point is Id honestly say that the number of non-religous people or disbelievers in the world are much much higher.

Its not membership or attendance that makes a person part of a faith. It is belief in the tenets of that faith and its dieties or lack of, and an honest attempt to live by those tenets that makes one a person of faith.

In Europe, another example, statistics claim a Christian majority, yet I am yet to find one European person that Ive met who has anything even close to resembling Christian belief. In fact, most people here have no interest in religon, but will claim Christianity of some form because they assume it has to do with heritage.

And Im not judging anyone for their lack of belief in anything, either. I just felt I should point out that people who are truly following or trying to follow a religon are far fewer than offical statistics suggest.

I agreed with you until you stated this:

After the past few decades that I’ve been “self-teaching” & researching, I’ve developed an increasingly stronger impression that it’s not really some kind of “conspiracy” that originates from within the structure of these religions for God, but that God’s religions are actually the victims of an older conspiracy...One that originates from the decedents of the ancient “mystery cult” religions.

These “mystery cults” based their worship upon the “secret mysteries” attributed to their chosen primary deity of the pantheon. Mesopotamia had “mystery cults”; Egypt had them; Greece had them; aboriginal societies in Australia & North America had them. Before the advent of the ancient Hebrew worship of YWH, every ancient society had pantheon worship. In time, during the passing of millennia, these “mystery cults” seem to have “evolved” into a number of “secret societies”.

Now, here is where the real conflict is coming in. These "secret societies" that you seem to have such disdain for....held the kernal of truth for many centuries. However, in AD 325 there was something called the Nicean council. Is that ringing a bell to anyone?

The Nicean Council was by far the biggest scourge to ever take place not only for Christianity, but for religion in general. Constantine was not a hero; he was a traitor to the "secret societies" that upheld him for years.

You say:

I’ve developed an increasingly stronger impression that it’s not really some kind of “conspiracy” that originates from within the structure of these religions for God, but that God’s religions are actually the victims of an older conspiracy...One that originates from the decedents of the ancient “mystery cult” religions.

That is rather despicable and completely false. It wasn't until the monotheistic religions started their wars and plots for domination that confusion started. Now, I'm not going to debate whether or not there were ever any polytheistic religion because there never have been. Monotheism is all that has ever existed, but when it was represented by "secret societies" it was peaceful. When they became "organized" religions is when the problems began.

The council of Nicea essentially turned the true teachings of Jesus, which were based on the "Egyptian mystery schools" by the way, on its head. They used his teachings as a way to gain personal power over the masses.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


The council of Nicea essentially turned the true teachings of Jesus, which were based on the "Egyptian mystery schools" by the way, on its head. They used his teachings as a way to gain personal power over the masses.

[edit on 11-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I suggest and immediate name change because you are in confusion.

The teaching of Jesus did not come from Egypt. The teachings of Jesus came from Jesus.

The Egyptian BS came from Babylon the same place Sol Invictus and Apollo came from.

The Roman Empire could not kill Christianity so Constantine took it over. Constantine was Pontifus Maximus the high priest of sun worship. He changed the worshipping of the Son of God on the Sabbath to worshipping the sun god on SUNday which is Baals day or Lords day. Baal means Lord.

Yea, it's all about control. It's about controlling the blind to keep them from seeing the truth of the Messiah.

Sun Matrix - What is it with this Babylon nonsense you keep bringing up in every thread, I know you explained it somewhere but I cant be arsed looking.
Why do you infer that every religion is based on some Babylonian notion, when there are religions and cultures that are older than Babylon's existance - like Egypt for example.
What is this conspiracy that you know off that no one else cares about?



G

Originally posted by Sun Matrix


The teaching of Jesus did not come from Egypt. The teachings of Jesus came from Jesus.
The Roman Empire could not kill Christianity so Constantine took it over. Constantine was Pontifus Maximus the high priest of sun worship. He changed the worshipping of the Son of God on the Sabbath to worshipping the sun god on SUNday which is Baals day or Lords day. Baal means Lord.

Yea, it's all about control. It's about controlling the blind to keep them from seeing the truth of the Messiah.

Hello Sun Matrix, still banging on about Constantine,Pontifex Maximus...
Christianity became popular with the Roman army who were looking for a more egalitarian religion than the elitist cults of Mithras and Sol Invictus. Constantine needed the army's loyalty and allowed the cult.
The teachings of Jesus came not from Jesus they came from Hillel.
Jesus is greek for Jeshua and Jeshua is a metaphor, it is made up as follows;
The Father or Tetragram IHVH
The Holy Fire Sh
Put them toghether and you have the Son IHShVh (Jeshua), in the one word the Son, the Father and the Holy Fire.
Jesus never existed, you see the radiant disk behind his head? that is deferential to the Sun God, in the Nativity scene: the ass shows deference to Set and the Ox shows deference to the famous Golden Calf.

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

Courts of law do not generally allow hearsay as testimony, and nor does honest modern scholarship. Hearsay provides no proof or good evidence, and therefore, we should dismiss it.

The teaching of Jesus did not come from Egypt.

The teachings of Jesus came from Jesus.

Actually both statements are true and correct.
What R.Jeshua taught was an amalgamation of many "schools" including the Egyptian
Isis/Osiris, Ancient Judism , and several others.

The teachings being promulgated today as those of the Rabbi were the inventions of Saul and his followers, the hard headed Peter included. They have little if anything
to do with the teachings of R. Jeshua and his followers The Church @ Jerusalem led by
James and The Magdalene.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Actually both statements are true and correct.
What R.Jeshua taught was an amalgamation of many "schools" including the Egyptian
Isis/Osiris, Ancient Judism , and several others.

The teachings being promulgated today as those of the Rabbi were the inventions of Saul and his followers, the hard headed Peter included. They have little if anything
to do with the teachings of R. Jeshua and his followers The Church @ Jerusalem led by
James and The Magdalene.

I heard different but it's not worth a big issue, here's what I thought:

Rabbi Hillel was born around 65 BCE, and a great deal of the teachings attributed to Jesus in fact come from Rabbi Hillel. Here are some things in common, some quotes, and some links to learn more about Hillel and all of the things that Jesus 'borrowed' from him.

Hillel was a carpenter - Hillel believed in a kingdom to come and a ressurrection - Early sages said Hillel had the 'holy spirit' - Hillel reached out to gentiles and believed in thier salvation - Hillel humanized the halakha (law)

"With the measure that a man uses to measure, they measure to him..." Mishnah, Sota 1:7-8
Jesus said, "With the measure you measure, it will be measured to you" - Mt. 7:2
Rabbi Hillel said, "My humiliation is my exaltation and my exaltation is my humiliation" (Leviticus Rabbah 1:5 [ed. Margulies, p. 17]).
Jesus said, "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted" - Luke 14:11
Rabbi Hillel said, [Do not exalt yourself in the king s presence, and do not claim a place among great men;] it is better for him to say to you, Come up here, than for him to humiliate you before a nobleman [Prov. 25:7]. Rabbi Akiva taught in the name of Rabbi Shim on ben Azzai: Move two or three places lower and there sit down. Move down so that you will be told, Move up, rather than move up and be told, Move down. It is better for you to be told, Move up, move up, than for you to be told, Move down, move down. (Leviticus Rabbah 1:5 [ed. Margulies, pp. 16-17])
Jesus said, "When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. In that case, the person who invited you both might come and say to you, Give this man your place. Then, humiliated, you would have to take the lowest place. But when you are invited, go and take the lowest place, so that when your host comes he will say to you, Friend, move up higher. Then you will be honored in the presence of all your fellow guests. - luke 14:8
Rabbi Hillel said, "A person in whom there are good deeds and who has studied the Torah extensively, what is he like? A man who builds first [of] stones and then afterwards [of] mud bricks. Even if a large quantity of water were to collect beside the stones, it would not destroy them. But a person in whom there are not good deeds, though he has studied Torah, what is he like? A man who builds first [of] mud and then afterwards [of] stones. Even if only a little water collects, it immediately undermines them. "
Jesus said, "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man, who built his house upon the rock. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded upon the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act upon them, will be like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and it fell, and great was its fall." - Matt. 7:24

There is more, but it is already boring...