Pope Sticks his Nose were it Doesn't Belong (attacks Canada)

Yup... I'm ticked:

TORONTO -- Pope Benedict sparked a debate about the place of religious beliefs in Canadian politics yesterday, telling Ontario bishops Canada has excluded "God from the public sphere" with laws supporting same-sex marriage and abortion.

Source

I'm proud of the fact that Canada keeps Church and state seperate. I'm proud that we allow our people to make their own choices (it's called FREEDOM!). I do NOT apressiate his Popal-highness dictating to us how we should live and how to run our damned countery.

We aren't all Christians here. We don't confuse the laws of man and the laws of God(s). Our elected officals aren't toadies to the Evengelicals.

If the Pope doesn't like it, tough. It's our country and we are FREE to run it how we see fit.

posted by BitRaiser

I'm ticked: “Pope Benedict sparked a debate telling Ontario bishops Canada has excluded "God from the public sphere" with laws supporting same-sex marriage and abortion.” I'm proud that Canada keeps Church and state separate. I'm proud we allow our people to make their own choices. It's called FREEDOM! I do NOT appreciate his Papal-highness dictating to us how we should live and how to run our] damned country. We aren't all Christians here. We don't confuse the laws of man and the laws of God(s). Our elected officials aren't toadies to the Evangelicals. If the Pope doesn't like it, tough. It's our country and we are FREE to run it how we see fit. [Edited by Don W]

Religious toleration is the condition of accepting or permitting others' religious beliefs and practices which disagree with one's own.

Pope Pius IX condemned as an error the belief that " . . every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true." Pope Pius IX. 1864. en.wikipedia.org...

I assume this is still the Law of the RCC? Look, the Pope has some serious problems.
1) shortage of priests. Celibacy and marital status are core to this problem.
2) anti women. The Church denies women the right to be priests on sex grounds only.
3) the method of choosing the Church’s leaders is not consistent with modern thinking.

So, divert, dodge, deny, decoy, delude and delay!

PS. With this not so vague "Our elected officials aren't toadies to the Evangelicals" You certainly threw an oblique challenge to us down here under the Bush43 regime.


[edit on 9/9/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by BitRaiser

If the Pope doesn't like it, tough. It's our country and we are FREE to run it how we see fit.

And your right, but I think the popes comments are more advisery and his opinions than anything else......
At least he doesn't send out tapes saying convert to Christianity or we blow you up like Azzam the American.

I would suggest the Pope stay out of Canadian politics.

That is, unless he is willing to have our government get involved in how the Catholic Church runs things in their little club. I've always thought the refusal to ordain women is discriminatory and goes directly against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

My dear Mr. Pope, this is a two way street.

edited to fix crappy spelling

[edit on 9-9-2006 by Duzey]

POPE ATTACKS CANADA!1

Originally posted by Duzey
My dear Mr. Pope, this is a two way street.

It seems the Pope has changed his approach somewhat..

A more aggresive stance?

So what is he suggesting they do instead? Does he have an agenda?

Besides IMO the Catholics took God out of the Church a long time ago and replaced the male god with Mary and baby Jesus images everywhere to worship. Maybe they won't have women priests because they think woman is an incubator for birthing their seed and if she was to find her real power she would blow him out of the water spiritually and maybe expose the lie of their real goddess sun worshipping scheme clothed in old white men's clothes that like to have sex with young boys right at the age that their essence is most powerful and pure.

Not all Catholics are bad people of course just brainwashed and wanting something to believe in

Originally posted by AGENT_T
POPE ATTACKS CANADA!1

Originally posted by Duzey
My dear Mr. Pope, this is a two way street.

It seems the Pope has changed his approach somewhat..

A more aggresive stance?

Nice one AGENT brings new meaning to the pope mobile.

Originally posted by BitRaiser

I'm proud of the fact that Canada keeps Church and state seperate. I'm proud that we allow our people to make their own choices (it's called FREEDOM!). I do NOT apressiate his Popal-highness dictating to us how we should live and how to run our damned countery.

Many of us are proud of such separation in Government but it's always wise to remember that he has a vested interest in keeping the big invisible man in the sky active in all facets of life.

I assume that no one except catholics listen to him anyway.

Just remember, God invented Maple syrup and he can take it away again so you better make sure you praise him all the time!

Originally posted by Nerdling
I assume that no one except catholics listen to him anyway.

That's the problem. We've only had two PM's who weren't Catholic.

All we ask is they keep their religion out of their office. What they do inside their own church is their business. What they do in government is ours.

PS. Loving the new popemobile AGENT_T.

[edit on 9-9-2006 by Duzey]

posted by AGENT_T

POPE ATTACKS CANADA!1
It seems the Pope has changed his approach somewhat.. A more aggresive stance?

He served honorably in the Wehrmacht. 2 years. As most German youth were required to do. Ohh, and also, as most American youth were required to do. And etc.

www.worldwar2database.com...




[edit on 9/9/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by donwhite He served honorably in the Wehrmacht. 2 years. As most German youth were required to do..

I think you hit the nail on the head and got the correct terminology..

REQUIRED..

IE He had no choice as families were routinely targetted if said ''hitler youth'' refused to comply

posted by Duzey

That's the problem. We've only had two PM's who weren't Catholic. All we ask is they keep their religion out of their office. What they do inside their own church is their business. What they do in government is ours.

That's the irony, to get a fair size vote out of Quebec, the candidate must be Catholic. I also have the idea Tony Blair is Catholic. but as you say, keep away frm mixing. Too bad Bush43 wasn't Catholic. He might have followed the other's lead. Of course, I'm comparing Bush43 to educated men who know their history. Which leaves Bush43 out.



[edit on 9/9/2006 by donwhite]

Not catholic, and believe much of the faith is erroneous:

1 Timothy 4:1-5
1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

here
(Italics my own. Personally believe that this is refusing to let priest marry, and Lent. Still get catholics trying everything to defend this stance every time I point this out. Just pointing out my opinion, not what I want to debate with people for the next ten years. Debate me in U2U. Jsut pointing out that I don't agree with the Catholic church on some rather important issues.)

But, I believe that the extent of seperation of Church and State is insane. He is a leader of a group of people, let him blather on. It's his right to lead his people, and it's his people's right to dissent. We get more up in arms about a christian group doing this than with musslims endoctrinating other musslims in our countries, seriously. Quit imposing your docterine down their throats for once.

If your leaders listen to him, and vote according to his beliefs, then don't vote them into office, if you don't like it. That's your job as a voter.

If your leaders are too scared to vote for what they think is best for your country becasue they are afraid that people will think they are voting for Religion instead of what's best for the country, then they are just sheeples in monkey suits, and not worth the price to put them in office. I'd rather a few direct mistakes than this slow sinking in mudholes that we are doing now. Fast mistakes get a real reaction, and people do somethng about it. Sinking people don't notice until whole generations have been brainwashed in the same traditions .

We don't get to vote for our PM. He is simply the person the party who has the most seats has chosen to lead them.

Nobody is imposing anything on the Catholic church. They are free to deny ordination to women, kick out members who have had divorces and protest outside abortion clinics with pictures of fetuses.

I don't think the level of separation is insane at all. This is a multicultural country with many religions represented in it. We don't let Muslims use Sharia, we don't let the Jewish have separate tribunals for Jewish people and we don't let the Catholic church dictate social policy.

When they made Canada, they looked at what mistakes the U.S made and changed it appropriately. We rule.

I don't understand why he isn't also going after the UK?

We now have same sex marriages and are overwhelmingly pro-choice.

Originally posted by Nerdling
I don't understand why he isn't also going after the UK?

We now have same sex marriages and are overwhelmingly pro-choice.

Best guess...

He knows damned well (like we all do) that we've got a Bush groupy in office.

I'm not at all pleased with Harper. He's too damned transparent and I firmly believe he has made some distinctly un-Canadian choices and comments.

Harper has said the onus is on militant groups like Hezbollah and Hamas to stop long-running attacks against Israel and return the kidnapped soldiers.

"I think we have to hold ultimately responsible for the violence people who advocate it as a solution and act upon those desires," Harper said Tuesday in Paris.

Faris traces that subtle but vital shift to the former Liberal regime. It was under Paul Martin's leadership that Canada began abstaining from or opposing United Nations resolutions rapping Israeli conduct in the region.

Harper has deliberately sharpened that pro-Israel tone, Faris said in an interview Tuesday.

"These are his own ideological leanings, his alliances.

"Canada is unfortunately forsaking its humanitarian position . . . . It is losing its even-handedness and balance on Middle Eastern issues."

Source

I was disgusted and outraged over his support of the Isreali assualt on Lebanon. I feel that it's a matter of national pride that we DO NOT support or condone ANY war. Even when we go to war, we DO NOT support or condone it. Sometimes it's something that has to happen, but never is it a good thing.


*ahem*
I digress.

My point is that since Harper is seen as a Bush Buddy, maybe he can be manipulated in the same way. Maybe just dicredit/shame us into getting into lock step with Extreamist Millitant Christian veiw and manipulating us into helping win their war against Mulsims.

Fawq that, I say.
It's not our war.
It's not one that needs to be fought.
Hell, I like Muslims (most that I've met have been a little kooky, but highly entertaining. ).

Maybe if the pope wants this war fought, he should jump into that newfangled Pope-Mobile above and do his own dirty work.

[Please note: I do not consiter all Christians to be intolerant pyscopaths. I have, however met more Bad Christians than Bad Muslims, Bad Budists, or Bad Pegans. Ok, I've met a lot of "bad" Pegans, but it was "bad" in a fun way.

Originally posted by Duzey
We don't get to vote for our PM. He is simply the person the party who has the most seats has chosen to lead them.

Then vote his majority out if he's the issue. that still doesn't hinder you.

Nobody is imposing anything on the Catholic church. They are free to deny ordination to women, kick out members who have had divorces and protest outside abortion clinics with pictures of fetuses.

That's jsut some things that they aren't being blocked on, yet, but the seperation of church and state indoctrination has left people confused on voting for what they believe is right and putting their church in the same arena as the state they live in.

You get more news on the Catholics than the others, and I don't like the other's getting blocked.

I don't think the level of separation is insane at all.

As much opinion as mine. I find people quoting this oft held myth of a right in situations where it wasn't really about church and state, but what was right and wrong, and it jsut so happens that the church and the state took opposite sides.

This is a multicultural country with many religions represented in it. We don't let Muslims use Sharia, we don't let the Jewish have separate tribunals for Jewish people and we don't let the Catholic church dictate social policy.

No one said for you to do so. I don't know how this thought ever came up, as it never crossed my mind. I said let him blather to his people, and let them make their decisions. If his man is the leader of your country, then let him be excommunicated, if it's that big an issue, and he holds his ground. If he gives in, or even makes the decision based upon what he sees as best for his country, then good, you get him out of office. All religious leaders and countries, for that matter try to impose on one another. Do what you are going to do.

My issue is, "he's not allowed to put pressue on our leaders as he's not supposed to lead our government" is a bunch of crock. This is the crux of most of this argument. That's not seperation, that's State bullying Church as much as the Church is accused of bullying State. Church never decided to seperate State in all matters, as God superceeds Caesar. To shove that down Church's throat is none of State's business. State vowed to be seperate, let them try to stand up in spite of Church because it was never Curch's job to try to seperate itself, State took that upon itself.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by jlc163]

The Pope can say whatever he wants, but he can't attempt to use the Catholic Churches in Canada to influence politics, which is exactly what he is doing.

The Churches (not just the Catholics) in this country get away with many things that are illegal for the rest of us due to freedom of religion. The rest of us get freedom from religion. It doesn't matter if the Church decided to stay out of the state, we are not allowed to have laws based on a purely religious argument. It's against the Charter of this country.

I think it's quite a nice compromise actually, no church in government and no government in church. It's a lot easier to keep laws based in religion from getting passed than try and repeal them and our government doesn't get slapped with numerous Charter of Rights violations.

What happens when we involve religion and politics in this country? We end up with atrocities such as the Residential School system, where for a few hundred years, our government tried to convert all the First Nations people to Christianity by force.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by Duzey]

Originally posted by interestedalways
So what is he suggesting they do instead? Does he have an agenda?

Besides IMO the Catholics took God out of the Church a long time ago and replaced the male god with Mary and baby Jesus images everywhere to worship. Maybe they won't have women priests because they think woman is an incubator for birthing their seed and if she was to find her real power she would blow him out of the water spiritually and maybe expose the lie of their real goddess sun worshipping scheme clothed in old white men's clothes that like to have sex with young boys right at the age that their essence is most powerful and pure.

Not all Catholics are bad people of course just brainwashed and wanting something to believe in

Men become priests....
Women become nuns....