Facts? or Fiction?

I ran across this the other day and I thought I would "put it out there" for you all.

I have not checked all of these facts; I figured I would get a lot of input from ATS.

1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;

4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 A.D. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;

5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;

6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;

8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;

9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;

11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;

12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;

13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE.

14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;

15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;

16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;

17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
weblog.waynelutz.net...

Truth or Fiction?

Most of what I have checked on has been verifiable.

Semper

Fiction.

IMHO: A mixture of fact and fiction. More importantly, what's your point in asking?

Like any topic, you can cite sources you believe bolster your argument and selectively ignore or omit sources that don't support it.

it's still only one planet, our collective planet, and we need to find a way to share it peacefully... and from lots of posts elsewhere on ATS, it seems this gem of a planet is gaining interest and scrutiny from others not from here .

If true, we should be equally concerned about those entities as well - if not more so...

Good luck...

A combination of fact, fiction, and misleading "factoids" designed to put Arabs in the worst possible light and Israel in the best possible light: IE pure partisan propaganda.

Something we've seen way too much of in this conflict already.

PS: anything in all-caps should be ignored as a general rule, no matter what side it comes from. It's just bad form.




[edit on 9/12/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by semperfortis
I ran across this the other day and I thought I would "put it out there" for you all.

I have not checked all of these facts; I figured I would get a lot of input from ATS.

1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;

Yes, to a point. Isreal as a nation does have a history that is quite long and well established.

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

True.

3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;

True, while isreal as a political entity was destroyed by the romans, jews continued to live in the same area untill the reestablishment of the jewish state.

4. THE ONLY ARAB RULE FOLLOWING CONQUEST IN 633 A.D. LASTED JUST 22 YEARS;

True

5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;
not entirely true while jerusalem was never the capital of any muslim or arab nation it was visited by many muslim leaders including Muhammad himself who claims to have been taken into heaven from Jerusalem

6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

Untue jerusalem is mentioned in the quran, most refrences being from the earlier medina period before Muhhammad had consolidated his political power and thus was less millitant in his words.

7. KING DAVID FOUNDED JERUSALEM; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;

see above

8. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;

Don't know

9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

pretty much

Originally posted by semperfortis


10. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;

True, the pograms in the middle east were particularly brutal during the 30-40. Not just against jews but christians as well. But then what would you expect when Islamic law states that non muslims are offically second class citizens?

11. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;

That year you mean? Don't know off hand

12. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUly one isreal.GEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;

In point of fact the palestinians are the only "refugee" group which has grown over time, and to whom no neighboring country will offer relocation.

13. THERE ARE 22 MUSLIM COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE.

I think there may be more muslim countries than that but yeah, only one isreal

14. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL. ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;

True

15. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;

true
16. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;
sounds correct.

17. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.

true

TYAAI

Wonderful information.

Thank you!!!

Semper

Semperfortis perhaps visiting Israeli sites that talks about their historical accounts of their humble beginnings, are better than that site you got in the link.

The link is very interesting but way out of my reading preferences.

Probably good advise,
but I do not censor even my own reading.

I tend to read it all.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
I tend to read it all.

Semper

I do too semperfortis, I do too but sometimes all you have to do is look a the page and inmediately you know what it is for.

Just remeber to be careful with the links and ATS. some may find it to strong for their sensitivities.

WOW!!1

Marg, have I found that to be true... time and again....LMAO

Mostly here on PTS people tend to get very upset.

I intended this thread to possibly open some dialog into the effects propaganda is having on all of our lives.

Many times when conversing with people one is not so familiar with, like here, it is not so much what you say, as how you say it. Any fact can be put "out there" and worded in such a way as to inflame one side or another on any issue.

Even those of us that have formal education in debate, can fall victim to the emotional rise caused by information displayed in just such a way. We all are human after all and equally susceptible to all of the natural instinctive reactions to defend ourselves and our positions.

2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;

I know how much you love to spread Israeli propaganda but I also enjoy disproving you and showing people for what you are just as much as you enjoy spreading falsehoods and attempting to defend a people that are hellbent on murdering arabs and using pawns such as yourself to spread dis-info and supporting their murderous actions.

They have called it Palestine since 1910's and the people there Palestinian. Surely the Arabs in palestine were Palestinians. This is another Israeli propaganda method to devalue the Palestinians as a people.

Guess you never questioned why it was that people being "Terrorized" were so qualified in training you ...probably because they wrote the book on terrorism.
Your thread lead me to some really interesting finds. Its a shame you probably found them in your endeavour to spread disinfo that you probably ignored them or swiped by them because it didn't follow your agenda.

9. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;

They didn't have to see a soldier. They were being killed for years before that by the Zionists. When Brittain pulled out they knew that they no longer had any protection from the Zionist gangs

1945

October 31

Jewish terrorist offensive against British rule in Palestine begins, with a wave of bomb attacks on police vehicles, railway sites and Haifa oil refinery. One policeman, one soldier and two railway workers killed.

November 27

Eight British soldiers killed in bomb attack on police station Jerusalem, Palestine, in Jewish Irgun terrorist attack.

1946
July 22

Ninety people killed and forty five wounded after Jewish terrorists blow up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, Palestine, which was home to British government and military offices. The terrorists held workers at pistol point while they planted the explosives in the basement of the hotel

October 31

British embassy in Rome, Italy, wrecked by two bombs in suit cases left by Jewish Irgun terrorists. No casualties.

1947
July 12

Jewish Irgun terrorists kidnap and then hang two British Army sergeants. The terrorists were trying to secure the release of three Irgun members who had been sentenced to death by the British authorities in Palestine.

September 29

Jewish Irgun terrorists bomb police station in Haifa, Palestine, killing four British and four Arab policemen, as well as two Arab civilians. Forty six people injured.
December 12

Twenty Arabs, five Jews and two British soldiers killed and thirty wounded in Jewish terrorist bomb attacks on buses in Haifa and Ramleh, Palestine. British mandate to rule Palestine ends on 15 May 1948; state of Israel established.

December 29

Jewish Irgun terrorists throw grenades from passing taxi into café near the Damascus gate, Jerusalem, Palestine, killing eleven Arabs and two British policemen.

1948

March 11

Headquarters of the Jewish Agency, Jerusalem, Palestine, destroyed by Arab car bomb killing thirteen and injuring eighty four.

April 9

Jewish Irgun terrorist group attacks Deir Yassim, Palestine, murdering two hundred and fifty four Arab women and children captured in the remains of the village.



September 17

United Nations mediator in Palestine, Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte, murdered by Jewish Stern gang extremist in Jerusalem, Palestine, who fired at point blank range through window of his official car.

Deir Yassim being one of the biggest attrocities to be denied by the Israelis as an imaginative story, was probably a big factor in many of them fleeing the country.
Many of these acts of terrorism included dressing up as arabs as part of the act. If you look up a few more in detail you will see what I mean.


Source

pie,

Your prejudice and dislike for me is showing here. That and your propensity for thread killing.

I never once stated this was my opinion. Never once even hinted that I believe all or any of it.

Your hatred for me and what I stand for caused you to make that assumption and thus a post without merit.

Maybe if you read the things you come out against and considered what is really written or intended, you may be able to follow the thread on a more intellectual level?

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
pie,

Your prejudice and dislike for me is showing here. That and your propensity for thread killing.

I never once stated this was my opinion. Never once even hinted that I believe all or any of it.

Your hatred for me and what I stand for caused you to make that assumption and thus a post without merit.

Maybe if you read the things you come out against and considered what is really written or intended, you may be able to follow the thread on a more intellectual level?

Semper

On the contrary, I don't hate you at all. I feel bad for you and at the same time I worry about the state of our country. The post about Muslims teaching their kids how to blow themselves up, the post about how you train especially to interrogate Middle Easterners,how much the Iraqis appreciate our being in Iraq, what a bang-up job we are doing in Iraq, and this post listing all this propaganda stuff.

Semper you are the one that has made claims to know the Middle East so well, so why would you even need to make a post like this to "Find out" something that you claim to have already known? You also say that you never once stated it as an opinion but yet you also say "Your hatred for me and what I stand for". Why say that if this post is not truly something that you stand for?