Why SETI Could be Pointless

This is one subject which REALLY annoys me!!!

INTERPLANETARY ALIENS WON'T USE RADIOS!!! AAAAAHHH!!!!!

Ahem

The SETI project listens in to all frequencies on the Electromagnetic Spectrum, including Infra-Red, visible light, Ultra Violet, Microwaves, Radio Waves, Television frequencies and Gamma Rays. As we know all energy on the EM spectrum only ever travels at the speed of light (unless altered by gravity). Now imagine an alien civilisation spread across hundreds of solar systems in this galaxy, if they were to use frequencies on the EM spectrum to communicate, well, it would be ridiculous! The time between sending and receiving a message and then replying would be so ENORMOUSLY PROPOSTOROUS it would be IMPOSSIBLE to coordinate an interplanetary civilisation.

So they would have to invent a new form of communication. There are theories coming into light from Chemistry World magazine and Quantum Physics Journal which point to using the Hydrogen Proton as a method. It has been theorised based on other discoveries in Quantum Physics that if you vibrate the proton of a Hydrogen nucleus to a certain frequency this vibration is INSTANTLY transmitted to all other hydrogen protons in the ENTRE UNIVERSE!!! They some how 'know' eachother even over huge distances. This method could be used for such a civilisation and there are others. If you could some how access another dimension of reality where the laws of physics are different (kind of like subspace in Star Trek) and where EM energy travels much faster, this would also be an effective means of interplanetary communication. Also, who's to say an alien couldn't use his MIND to communicate. Telepathy and remote viewing have no bounds within the laws of physics, an alien being could therefore communicate with anyone he chooses across the entire UNIVERSE and could even leave his body a go wherever he wanted.

HOWEVER, despite these facts, there is still a chance that SETI could detect a civilisation the DOES use the EM spectrum to communicate and due to the limitations on such a form of communication we could assume that this civilisation would NOT be interplanetary and is probably of the same technological level as us, or at least WAS. If we did detect 'radio chatter' from another planet, it would have taken so long to get here that by the time we hear it, the civilisation who broadcasted it would either be gone, or would have evolved it's technology beyond the use of radio.

So despite my frustration on the subject of contacting or hear LIVE aliens, at least SETI could prove that someone out there, at some time did exist and did use our form of communication but, the chances are SO MINUTE, it will probably never happen in our life times, in fact aliens will probably contact US before SETI hears anything.


Mod Edit: title

[edit on 9-9-2006 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Hippycracker
This is one subject which REALLY annoys me!!!

INTERPLANETARY ALIENS WON'T USE RADIOS!!! AAAAAHHH!!!!!

Your post is chock full of misconceptions about SETI. First of all, none of the SETI projects (there are *several*) are looking for incidental communications between aliens. Our radio scopes are simply not sensitive enough for that. We're looking for really obvious, strong beacon signals intended to get the attention of folks like us who USE RADIO.

Also, at least SETI is using technologies that ARE ACTUALLY REAL, unlike remote viewing and telepathy. Radio exists. The other stuff is pretend until proven within a scientific framework. Maybe in your world and your circle of friends and websites those things have been proven, but not in the external world.

Furthermore, even if aliens ARE using some super-futuristic tech to communicate with each other, we don't have that tech yet and cannot do the experiments. So rather than sit around and talk about aliens on the internet, the SETI folks are using what they DO have to try to find aliens.

I deleted what i had to say, i didnt fully read what you posted I admit. But if aliens are keeping close tabs on earth and suppose they are orbiting our planet and comming and going as they please, it would seem reasonable that they could pick up these signals and interpret them. But I guess they choose not to reply back for their own reasons. That or the aliens just aren't there. I'm sure they pick up all sorts of radio and satelite traffic from our planet. #, they probably watch all our Pay per view boxin on their spacecrafts.

But yeah, sending radio waves just out to space, hoping to reach a planet, that just seems futile, but trying to communicate with aleins who are posibly more localized around this planet is what they should work on.

[edit on 9-9-2006 by CavemanDD]

what if aliens on other planets are all sitting around listening for other existence of life and none of them are making an effort to contact the others? wouldn't we all be wasting our time. I say, if you want something to happen, don't sit around waiting for it to come to you. Get off your alien butt and get over here.

Originally posted by Sophismata
Also, at least SETI is using technologies that ARE ACTUALLY REAL

How would you know? Living over there in the middle-ages, these advanced concepts confuse you people.

Anyway it's unsafe to assume that SETI is acting out of ignorance. Information on aliens - videos, articles, everything - is all over the place. It's no longer excusable for someone who studies space to say "Oh I just didn't didn't know about aliens" or "the government told me to believe it's fake".

SETI is probably 'looking for life in space' for the same reason NASA is looking for bacterial life on Mars: As long as people see the authorities looking for alien life on distant planets and galaxies, they'll ask fewer question about the UFOs wizzing over our heads or the aliens pulling us out of our houses.

Originally posted by Zareste
SETI is probably 'looking for life in space' for the same reason NASA is looking for bacterial life on Mars: As long as people see the authorities looking for alien life on distant planets and galaxies, they'll ask fewer question about the UFOs wizzing over our heads or the aliens pulling us out of our houses.

More paranoia. First, SETI is not an "authority". There is no "The SETI", but rather a collection of projects done at different universities in different countries. As for why they are looking - they are looking in order to try to find something we haven't found yet - aliens. NOT TO COVER UP SOME BIG DARK SECRET.

At least they are doing something, rather than spinning conspiratorial yarns.

the other day regarding SETI@home, someone started a thread on who uses programs that donate processing time like seti or folding@home.. this is what I wrote (and guess what.. no ridicule, no patronising remarks.. someone actually dug out an article about it):

Waste of time doing seti
Apparently someone was going to come forward earlier this year saying they had found multiple instances of intelligent communication but he was intimidated and threatened not to go public.. this is according to Dr Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project. Unfortunately efforts like this need whistleblowers prepared to come forward. There's talk of seti being founded on good intentions (Carl Sagan) but taken under the umbrella of black ops never to reveal the truth. Carl Sagan is an example of a truthseeker who suddenly turned against the disclosure effort.

SETI is pointless, and everyone knows that. The authorities already know they are among us, and have been so for many many decades now. Seti is just window-dressing, it's helpful for their cause (TPTB) because it serves as a distraction from the truth and has that impression of being an independent body of passionate individuals - perfect distraction and wonderment fodder for the unwashed masses to get behind.

they are looking in order to try to find something we haven't found yet - aliens

'We' refers to you and a few friends I take it. You kids can get away with your belief system in your own anti-alien forums but you'll be laughed at here in the outside world.

Originally posted by RiotComing
Apparently someone was going to come forward earlier this year saying they had found multiple instances of intelligent communication but he was intimidated and threatened not to go public.. this is according to Dr Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project.

This is the Dr. Greer who meditates to try to contact aliens? I stand by my statement that the various SETI projects are using *real* technology to try to find aliens, not this Atlantis-crystal waving astral remote viewing jibber jabber.

Hang on a cotton-picking minute. Scientists are beginning to realise that matter is a manifestation of electromagnetic light resonating at varying vibrational frequencies. We are all interconnected this way, as a collective consciousness. Who are you to casually dismiss that there is no hard scientific basis for meditation, or remote viewing, psychic ability, or anything like that?

Here in New Zealand, one of our best-known psychics Kelvin Cruickshank, recently said he's being headhunted by the FBI. Now if there was nothing to this stuff, why would the FBI be interested in him if it's all tall-story tomfoolery?

The same goes for Dr Greer. I don't know much about it, but I believe him if he says he can mediate / astral project / whatever you want to call it. Bill Hamilton also said he can vector alien ships and could do it from quite a young age, complete with witnesses, so Dr Greer isn't the only one. I find the whole idea quite fascinating and won't discount it for a second. I have no idea how it's done myself (as I admittedly don't have a spiritual bone in my body and apparently it's to do with your spirit) but I don't think they're lying. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I am in a position to make a judgement call. And neither should you.

SETI is a psych-ops denial program, ever ask yourself with so much dubious activity going on why SETI never hears a thing? that's because its there to hold the line of denial in mainstream and scientific circles,in other words "they don't exist". As long as it's the status quo it will continue to help maintain humanity from ET intergration.

Originally posted by RiotComing
Hang on a cotton-picking minute. Scientists are beginning to realise that matter is a manifestation of electromagnetic light resonating at varying vibrational frequencies.

Huh? I must've missed that one. I read at least the abstracts and summaries coming out of the journals and I haven't seen that matter is light resonating at varying frequencies. Besides, what's this have to do with meditation being a good way to contact actual aliens?

Is everyone here *serious*, or is this some kind of collective game where folks come on and pretend to be paranoid and credulous and we all weave an interesting story? Is it really the general belief here that SETI (like that's some kind of government organization) is a part of a conspiracy?

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, folks. SETI project(s) (PLURAL, folks! P-L-U-R-A-L !!!) haven't found a repeating signal. Anything they've found never repeated itself and therefore (sadly) couldn't be trusted. It's as simple as that.

Originally posted by incunabula
SETI is a psych-ops denial program, ever ask yourself with so much dubious activity going on why SETI never hears a thing? that's because its there to hold the line of denial in mainstream and scientific circles,in other words "they don't exist". As long as it's the status quo it will continue to help maintain humanity from ET intergration.

uh...
first off it's psy(psi?)-ops

second, the reason they haven't found anything is because the universe is vast, signals can only travel so fast, some signals will be blocked by objects, and you can only scan so much of the sky at once

people don't realize that we're in a backwater of our galaxy, so we aren't going to be getting a constant bombardment

Originally posted by Sophismata
I haven't seen that matter is light resonating at varying frequencies. Besides, what's this have to do with meditation being a good way to contact actual aliens?

Well if you can't connect the dots and make the connection, it's pointless furthering this discussion with you.

I don't think SETI are implicitly part of the conspiracy, they were unwittingly embroiled due to their own good intentions.

maybe SETI are picking nothing up because there is no one out there.

They are out there all right. Question is given our violent past and current wars do they want to even bother getting in tocuh with us. if i were an ailen looking in on the human race i would'nt !!!

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
They are out there all right.

Never mind gut feelings. Look at the data that's been collected over the last 10-20 years.

1. No super race is broadcasting an obvious beacon that we can hear
2. Earth type systems are rare. No other one has been found.

That doesn't mean they don't exist, but scientists are coming to the gloomy conclusion intelligence in the universe is rarer than we previously assumed. Of course, not all the data's in yet, but it's not looking great.

This is what I have had on my SETI profile for years:
"I think this is a great project but I am very skeptical about its success. Look how far we have come in a little over then a hundred years. I am certain that there are other civilizations out there but I dont think they would be using radio waves as a form of communication. Imagine what kind of technology we will have in another 100, 200, 500 years? I dont think we will still use radio waves in the near future so I just wander what they use."

setiathome.berkeley.edu...

edit: SETI has scanned an extremely small portion of the sky, dont remember how much but it was something like 1% if I am not mistaken.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by Lecter]

As Sophismata has tried to explain, there is no "central authority" which is SETI. However there is an organisation called The SETI Institute, which acts much like the central clearing house and institute for research into ET's. But, it cannot "cover up" anything which it finds because it has written a protocol which has been ratified by the UN which clearly states how it's to go about confirming any extraterrestrial signals. Covering up anything, unless the US military were ordered to take over the running of the whole game, would be next to impossible. There are too many interested parties involved in this to try and gag, and unless the US could get full and unanimous agreement in the Security Council and the UN General Assembly (which it can't, not by a long stretch), it's efforts to cover things up would hopelessly fail.

Anyway, you have to consider the enormity and scale of the problem in finding any radio signal coming from space. This will put both the sceptics and true believers into perpsective. Remember, the best they've been able to do with the technology and time allowed to them on the telescopes, is to survey around about 1000 stars for around a few seconds to a minute for each star. In the entire history of SETI, the amount of time they've had available to conduct surveys amounts to no more than a few days worth of telescope time and restricted to a tiny subset of stars....not more than 1100 or so. They don't spend enough time on any star to really be able to say definitively what's out there.

That's why the SETI Institute is building its own telescope, called the Allen Telescope Array, in California. It covers a hectare in size and is made up of around 350 6 metre dishes. With this radiotelescope, they'll be able to spend days on each individual star in their catalogues, and so greatly increases their chances of finding something. Still, the dataset of stars that they'll be looking at is only a very small proportion of what's out there.

Consider this. Not counting giant and supergiant stars, stars of spectral types O,B,A, and the upper F class (F0 to F4.5), those stars too dim to host viable planets, and also those in multiple systems where the orbital dynamics of the stars preclude the possibility of planet formation, there are around about 170-190 billion target stars in this galaxy alone!!. Even if they only spend a few seconds looking at each star, the time it would take to survey the entire 170-190 billion would amount to several thousand years. This 170-190 billion stars includes around 12 billion G class stars (those like the Sun), 6 billion F class stars (F4/5 to F9), 45-50 billion K class stars and around 100-120 billion M class stars (M0-M4).

Even of those stars which I have left out, there have been planetary systems found around giant stars and the upper Main Sequence stars as well. Although these system would most likely be devoid of life, they're still planetary systems where an advanced race might have a base or two...... it's just not known. It's now thought, given the prevalance of planets around nearly all types of stars and from dynamic simulations of possible solar systems and stellar characteristics, that nearly all stars within the Galaxy (85-90%) have planets. That's upwards of 360 billion stars.

So, you can see what the astronomers face. It's a monumental task, and one which will take many lifetimes to fulfill...... if it ever really ends.

The only way for sure to know, is to go out there and look for them first hand, and we will achieve that soon enough.



[edit on 13-9-2006 by GhostITM]

[edit on 13-9-2006 by GhostITM]

Originally posted by GhostITM
As Sophismata has tried to explain, there is no "central authority" which is SETI. .....So, you can see what the astronomers face. It's a monumental task, and one which will take many lifetimes to fulfill...... if it ever really ends.
The only way for sure to know, is to go out there and look for them first hand, and we will achieve that soon enough.

Thanks for the voice of reason, GhostITM! I am participating in SETI@home as we speak and doing what I can to find those aliens. I encourage anyone else who's interested in this subject to download the software. Meantime, all we can do is wait...