Originally posted by babloyi
You mention the whole "Why would millions of people die for it if they knew it was a lie" thing, but you answered it yourself. Perhaps they did not know it was a lie.

Then you are suggesting that when they saw Jesus risen those hundreds of people were just imagining things?

I'm not sure about your claim that the current Bible is guided by the Holy Spirit and is literally God's Word. I mean, lets go through it chronologically:

*Stuff Happened
*People Saw it Happening
*People talked about the stuff they saw happening
*Other people wrote down what those people said
*Some people started the seeing stuff much later
*A few hundred years later, a group of people decided which accounts of what happened should be collected together to form "The Bible"
*More than a 1000 years later a few other people had the courage to disagree, and added more accounts of what happened
*The stuff got continuously translated until it was in a form we understand today

What is easier to believe, manuscripts of eyewitness accounts or manuscripts written 1000 years later? At the council of Nicea most of the books written by eyewitnesses were included in the Bible. The ones that were not thought accurate and not written by eyewitnesses were not included.

Are you telling me that EVERY SINGLE STEP there was guided by the Holy Spirit, and that every single word in every single language is exactly the way God wants us to understand the Bible? What if there were a few nasty people in between, who didn't copy things exactly the way they were? If someone today saw a vision which transformed them into becoming Christian, and the Holy Spirit inspired them to write down the "Good News", which added a few more things than what is currently in the Bible (to make it understandable today) would that be accepted?

Yes. Why would people who saw Christ's resurection and believed in him write something that was not true? Nothing can be added to the Bible and nothing can be taken away.

How exactly would Jesus save me from eternity in hell?

He takes your punishment on himself. But you must believe this also.

Originally posted by Ersatz
To say that you are a God, to say you have risen from the dead, to perform miracles are awsome claims and in my opinion extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

Give one or two bits of evidence in your own words without pointing to a biased website.

There isnt going to be many non-Christian websites that try to prove God's existence is there?

Originally posted by Ersatz
To say that you are a God, to say you have risen from the dead, to perform miracles are awsome claims and in my opinion extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

Give one or two bits of evidence in your own words without pointing to a biased website.

The evidence that verifies Christian truths is of an extraordinary nature by virtue of the supernatural subject. Because such evidence is so "exceptional" people such as you don't accept it because you are convinced that everything has to fit into your preconceived notions about what constitutes evidence. If evidence does not conform to your petrified physical perspective people such as you reject it. To ask for evidence when you are unprepared to accept it makes your request meaningless.

As I stated in my previous post, some people will only be convinced of the reality of God when they have a personal encounter with Him. Evidence of a supernatural sort is beyond the reach of minds that are shackled to natural thinking.

Originally posted by LancerJ1

I don't understanded why some of you don't want to believe in God? I think people like the part of God which is warm and friendly but dont want to accept the justice part of God because it means punishment and restriction and dont want to give up their lives for God. But a perfect God must be perfectly just.

I don' t mean to disappoint you,I do love the beauty and good will contained in the teachings of Jesus don't get me wrong, I think you probably are a very nice and genuine individual.
It is priests I dislike a lot. I do not need a priest to tell me what is bad, my conscience does a good job already. Priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road.

Originally posted by SkyWay

The evidence that verifies Christian truths is of an extraordinary nature by virtue of the supernatural subject.

As I stated in my previous post, some people will only be convinced of the reality of God when they have a personal encounter with Him. Evidence of a supernatural sort is beyond the reach of minds that are shackled to natural thinking.

All I am really asking is that you say in your own words why the Christian God is better than Buddha, Allah, Krishna etc etc or do you have a direct line to the Real True God?

Thanks mate

I agree some priests are fonnies who are only in it for money and power. These types of priests are false teachers and the Bible warns not to listen to them. But some people dont know what is wrong and need to be told why it is wrong. All the pastors i have met are genuine and have only a modest wage and live humble lives.

Originally posted by Ersatz
All I am really asking is that you say in your own words why the Christian God is better than Buddha, Allah, Krishna etc etc or do you have a direct line to the Real True God?

The Christian God is the Supreme Being. There is none equal to Him.

Allah is just the name used by Muslims to refer to the Supreme Being.

Buddha was a man.

Krishna I do not know enough about.

Originally posted by SkyWay
The Christian God is the Supreme Being. There is none equal to Him.

Allah is just the name used by Muslims to refer to the Supreme Being.

Buddha was a man.

Krishna I do not know enough about.

Did the supreme being create everything including evil? or was that created by some other supreme being?

Originally posted by LancerJ1
Thanks mate
All the pastors i have met are genuine and have only a modest wage and live humble lives.

I live near Rome and have visited the Vatican several times, the wealth and the vanity are so tangible, they could buy half of Africa but instead of giving they keep hoarding.

Originally posted by Ersatz
Did the supreme being create everything including evil? or was that created by some other supreme being?

Evil is the result of freewill.

Evil was not created by another supreme being because there cannot be two supreme beings.

Originally posted by SkyWay
Evil is the result of freewill.

Evil was not created by another supreme being because there cannot be two supreme beings.

So much for Satan then. Off with ye foul illusion of mind altering christian Philosophers. Scat!

Originally posted by SkyWay

Evil is the result of freewill.

What do you mean by that ?? Who created free will?

Here's a little puzzle for you... Evil exists (unfortunatly)

God does not know evil exists (not omniscient)
God knows evil exists but cannot do anything about it (not omnipotent)
God knows evil exists but will not do anything about it ( not benevolent)

derfred33

God cannot create a stone too big for Him to handle because anything that is created is limited by virtue of being created...but God's power is infinite. This proves that anything infinite is greater than anything created.

Originally posted by Ersatz
What do you mean by that ?? Who created free will?

Here's a little puzzle for you... Evil exists (unfortunatly)

God does not know evil exists (not omniscient)
God knows evil exists but cannot do anything about it (not omnipotent)
God knows evil exists but will not do anything about it ( not benevolent)

Here's the solution to your puzzle:
God knows everything...including that evil exists (omniscient)
God can overcome anything...including evil(omnipotent)
God knows evil exists and does something about it which is why some people become saints (benevolent)
BUT people must CHOOSE to accept God's help by choosing through their freewill to accept His Salvation!

Originally posted by SkyWay

Originally posted by Ersatz
What do you mean by that ?? Who created free will?

Here's a little puzzle for you... Evil exists (unfortunatly)

God does not know evil exists (not omniscient)
God knows evil exists but cannot do anything about it (not omnipotent)
God knows evil exists but will not do anything about it ( not benevolent)

Here's the solution to your puzzle:
God knows everything...including that evil exists (omniscient)
God can overcome anything...including evil(omnipotent)
God knows evil exists and does something about it which is why some people become saints (benevolent)
BUT people must CHOOSE to accept God's help by choosing through their freewill to accept His Salvation!

I think we both know that you did not give a proper answer, people become saints???

And with regards to choice and feee will:

Does God know or does He not know that a certain individual will be good or bad? If He knows, then it necessarily follows that [that] man is compelled to act as God knew beforehand he would act, otherwise God's knowledge would be imperfect.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAA you call that proof !!!
I cant belive how people are brainwashed and stupid by makeing every single excuse to keep on beliveing!!

He resurected from the dead OMG did you ever stop to think how stupid you sound??(so where is he why is he hideing affraid we wont kill him again?)

Please tell me were you there to witness this resurection?
You take for granted what people said 2000 years ago not to mention that those people were dumb as a rock fire was a miracle!!!

Demons,devil those are parabolas,frazes but morons take it for granted!!!
And did you ever play a litlle game called earphone? where someone whisperes something to some1 ear and they keep on whispering and at the end it comes out totaly different!

Imagine what came out 2000 years later with ignorant uneducated people GOD ALLMIGHTY THAT LIVES ABOVE US IN HEAVEN OMG!!
YO you belive in Santa Claus too?

Couse God is just a story for older and people with less brain capacity or intelekt!

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Are you willing to risk not believing? Are you willing to risk eternal punishment in Hell? If you are not willing to believe after reading the New Testament then there isnt anything more i can do.

I used to be a christian until I read the bible five or six times cover to cover.....Thats not to say I dont belive in a higher power I absolutly do.....But I refuse to belive in a god that is so insecure in its own power as a god that it is willing to punish people eternally in hell for not believing in a book that what written over a period of several hundred if not a thousand years by dozens if not more writers with equally if not more versions of the said book because there is no agreement in christianity as to what the book actually should say.

You know, if you think of religion outside the box, it's an excellent form of control.

"thou shall do pretty much exactly as I say (says god/Jesus/being) or you shall burn for eternity or *insert something REALLY bad here*"

But wait, since it's human nature for people to "sin", lets throw in the line that you can repent and its all ok. Problem solved, phew that was close as if we had stuck to that, the whole of humanity is pretty much in trouble.

But to enforce this we need scriptures. Now lets take these scriptures, along with the tales of dragons, sea serpents and other beasts which are well documented but still no evidence exists of them and then make a book. A book that does not exist in it's original format. A book that reads better than most novels or modern day stories. A tale of who we are, how we came to be and some ideals on how we should live and go about our daily lives. Perfect, this keeps the masses in check and also answers all their questions.

Apologies, I'm not mocking religion, but it's certainly how I view it in it's present state. Religion controls a certain amount of people quite well. Infact, it's probably been the best form of control (or mind slavery) since the first man pointed at the sun and grunted (you know, people back then could understand grunts ) that it was the all-powerful being that would cast it's vengenence upon those who did not do as they were told.

From the dawn of man, it's human nature to question our existence, place in the universe and if there's is really was something all powerful that actually created what's around us. It's a good and healthy thing to contemplate these things.

But proof ? Your god would be ashamed of you for lying. There is no proof; but there is faith and for that I respect you, as you should respect me (us) for choosing not to believe.


[edit on 10-9-2006 by timb3r]

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