Did Any Of You Know That Pope John Paul Felt This Way?

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Pope fears Bush is antichrist, journalist contends - Church - journalist Wayne Madsden - Brief Article
Catholic New Times, May 18, 2003

WASHINGTON DC -- According to freelance journalist Wayne Madsden, "George W Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs and his constant references to 'evil doers,' in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations--the anti-Christ."

Madsen, a Washington-based writer and columnist, who often writes for Counterpunch, says that people close to the pope claim that amid these concerns, the pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament.

Before he became pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel."

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I certainly did not realize that Pope John Paul thought this about the president. I am willing to bet that many others did not either. I am not one to go around claiming that "Bush is the seed of Satan" but it's interesting that the Pope would be open to such a possibility.

I certainly think that Bush, perhaps unintentionally, is leaving the door wide open for the antiChrist, or, as I term him, the one world leader. However, I don't personally think Bush is the antiChrist.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I certainly did not realize that Pope John Paul thought this about the president.

Don't believe everything you read.

I highly doubt the pope would have said that Bush 43 was the anti-christ. He may not have liked him, but he also didn't like Bill Clinton.

I highly doubt the author of this article. he claims the pope wished he were younger and could fight Bush .. or whatever. I completely disbelieve that. The pope accepted God's Will in all things and to wish for youth and to fight would be making wishes against God's Will. I don't think PJPII had that kind of spiritual vanity in him - to wish against God's Will. Nope.

That article is from, a publication pretending to be Catholic that is anything but Catholic, denounced by Church officials and with an Editor that was clearly anti JPII.

Funny how they have no problem publishing an article using JPII against Bush though when they clearly defied him otherwise.

I don't believe a word of it coming from that source.

if the pope thinks that judgement day is nigh, and that the end of times is a coming, shouldn't he be pretty pumped up for it? Afterall, he's a lock to enter the Kingdom. He's got a first class seat on the shuttle to heaven. Why complain about the anti-christ or the final battle. He should not want to fight for God, as God's will should be enough to rely on. Besides, if it is predetermined that the final good vs. evil battle is going to happen, then sit back, let them duke it out and relax in the comfort that you are going home soon.


isn't that what the pope preaches? that a good person goes home when he dies (to god's kingdom etc).

Originally posted by Crakeur
if the pope thinks that judgement day is nigh, and that the end of times is a coming, shouldn't he be pretty pumped up for it? Afterall, he's a lock to enter the Kingdom. He's got a first class seat on the shuttle to heaven. Why complain about the anti-christ or the final battle. He should not want to fight for God, as God's will should be enough to rely on. Besides, if it is predetermined that the final good vs. evil battle is going to happen, then sit back, let them duke it out and relax in the comfort that you are going home soon.


isn't that what the pope preaches? that a good person goes home when he dies (to god's kingdom etc).

Well,Crakeur, it has become increasingly obvious to me that nothing is cast in stone. I view most prophecy, even the book of Revelation, as more of a warning than something that is absolute. The book of revelation is a representation of one outcome that humanity may witness.

Now, for someone as high esteemed as the Pope to sit back and sort of ride it out, without geeting involved would seem somewhat sinful to most. If the future can be change, which I believe it can, it stands to reason that the Pope would want to try and intervene in order to stop "armageddon".

speaker, I'm not catholic (barely practicing jew actually) so I hope I didn't come across as a complete fool. I have been to a few church weddings and funerals and the concept of returning to the kingodm of god always seemed to be prevalent and desired so I figure the catholics of the world wouldn't be so afraid of the end of times scenario (well, the sinners should I guess). I would expect them to welcome the end to some degree.

Originally posted by Crakeur
speaker, I'm not catholic (barely practicing jew actually) so I hope I didn't come across as a complete fool. I have been to a few church weddings and funerals and the concept of returning to the kingodm of god always seemed to be prevalent and desired so I figure the catholics of the world wouldn't be so afraid of the end of times scenario (well, the sinners should I guess). I would expect them to welcome the end to some degree.

In principle, what you are claiming is correct. Most Catholics and "christians" for that matter claim that they will rejoice at the time of the coming of the Lord; however, I get the distinct impression from most that it's just lip-service. They are just as frightened as most others are.

No -I welcome the coming of my Lord Jesus Christ. I love life, but I want to be with jesus and God far far more than I can say.

As for the Pope, yes I knew he feared Bush as the Anti Christ, and yes he also feared he would be the Pope that had to walk over the bodies of all the dead people as the anti christ sacked Rome...

Ill see if there are any links about it, but it is well known that the Great John Paul II saw much evil in our times and our world leaders.

Canonise the man, for he truely was a Saint amongst us.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght

Ill see if there are any links about it, but it is well known that the Great John Paul II saw much evil in our times and our world leaders.

Canonise the man, for he truely was a Saint amongst us.

He's probably the last great Pope the world will see. I suspect the present one will be rather ineffectual and the coming one..........well....we'll just have to see.

Question. Isn't the present Pope Benedict XVIV? I can't remember his name.

[edit on 9-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 9-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

I would think if the Pope believed the Anti-Christ was gaining power world wide he would feel it was his duty to inform people and attempt to lessen that power by the prayers and open eyes of his flock. That would be spiritual battle that would not be questioning the will of God.

A lot of influential leaders have taken very sick in this last year ya know.

As the Pope he did have alot of influence and if he was talking about Bush like that openly maybe the dark power made him sick and he died sooner than he would have otherwise.

Of course the Catholics themselves are representing symbolism which questions their version of who and what God is and they have a new Pope who looks very evil in his pictures holding the big cross with the twisted and bent figure of Jesus. And they sure do like the Sun burst images and peacock eyes and even the miters hat that could symbolize water gods. Some people call them the Anti-Christ. I think it's a matter of the pot calling the kettle black.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
In principle, what you are claiming is correct. Most Catholics and "christians" for that matter claim that they will rejoice at the time of the coming of the Lord; however, I get the distinct impression from most that it's just lip-service. They are just as frightened as most others are.

No, there are vast differences in how Catholics and many other "Christians" view things actually. We might all rejoice in the coming of the Lord, but there are expected to be a long period of tribulations first.

In terms of wanting it to come, or the Pope postponing it, that would not be for the postponement of of sending souls to heaven, but rather for the postponement of losing so many souls when it comes. The longer the time before it happens the more chance for prayers and works to save additional souls (Catholic perspective). Note this doesn't necessarily mean conversion to the Church in our case.

I would like to state again though that the entire basis for this discussion if from a very questionable source and unless someone comes up with this story from a reliable source, I do people are discussing this as hypothetical by now.

IMO every one who isn't Christ is the Anti-Christ and since Christ can't be explained with any resemblance of truth and meaning I can't comprehend what Christ is so what in the world would the ant-christ.

No sense in all the christians coming in and saying to read the sinners prayer and be saved and repent and jesus will live in your heart cause I tried too many times and jesus never made his presence known in my heart.

I think it is alchemical transformation in the heart chakra which may be christ living in my heart.

All the Popes are too old anyway and they are weak and fragile and sick most the time. He probably didn't say that about Bush, because he probably knows there is no one man to be the Anti-christ

Wait wait wait.

The title of the article, as well as the title of this thread, are VERY misleading.

Lets look at the article:

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
According to freelance journalist Wayne Madsden, "George W Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs and his constant references to 'evil doers,' in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations--the anti-Christ."

This is according to some bloke named Wayne, who is quoting many unnamed & unspecified devout Catholic leaders.

Please notice that he didn't say "Catholic Church Officials". That would mean that these people were actually part of the Church heirarchy. "Catholic leaders" could mean just about anyone who is Catholic and leads something. I know a highschool coach who is Catholic, hes a "leader" of a team, does he count?

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Madsen ... says that people close to the pope claim that amid these concerns, the pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations.

This Wayne bloke claims that people close to the Pope, think something or other. So Wayne, talked to someone who speculated on the Popes opinion. Heresay, and from a dubious unidentified source no less.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament.

While it may be true, this statement has no relation to the others. Wayne did not get it from his source, nor did he hear it from the Pope himself, otherwise, he would have clearly stated so.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Before he became pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel."

Again, another statement that is unrelated to what Old Wayne is hearing. This statement, and the one I previously quoted, are facts about the Pope's opinion, that Wayne is trying to make fit into his story.


There was an example of this earlier in another thread. Lets take 2 completely true sentences and string them together:

"John Hinckley, Jr. shot Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan died."

Both sentences are TRUE, and they're strung together in a disingenuous manner to make you think that John Hinckley, Jr. killed Ronald Reagan. Hinkley DID shoot Reagan and Reagan DID indeed die, but the 2 events were totally unrelated. Ron Reagan was shot by Hinkley in 1981 and died of pneumonia on June 5, 2004.

The author of the article that prompted this thread is doing the same thing. NO WHERE does the article state that the Pope thinks Bush is the Antichrist.


Disclaimer-
I personally don't care if Bush is the Antichrist or if the old Pope thought so or not. I'm not speaking to this point at all, I'm more concerned with the fraudulent shell game that the author (not the thread creator) is trying to play here. Want to know what I hate? Shoddy & sensationalistic journalism.

Originally posted by Relentless
In terms of wanting it to come, or the Pope postponing it, that would not be for the postponement of of sending souls to heaven, but rather for the postponement of losing so many souls when it comes. The longer the time before it happens the more chance for prayers and works to save additional souls (Catholic perspective). Note this doesn't necessarily mean conversion to the Church in our case.

Well, since I don't believe in "lost souls" all of that is a moot point for me. Although, assuming that you come from an orthodox point of view, I can certainly understand what you are saying.

[edit on 10-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]