So are Freemasons satanic

Maybe you should edit your post one more time so it actually anwers the question that I asked.

I will ignore your insult and assume you thought I was Rahboni. Because you were asking him that question

Originally posted by oconnection
Bleh a perfectly good subject ruined by people arguing about nonsense

The pentagram has commonly been associated with Satanism. It comes from wickia, each point being all the elements of earth. Christians would argue that wickia or witchcraft comes from Satan. Others would argue that witchcraft comes from the earth. I guess it's a matter of opinion.

My personal experience is that witchcraft is something not to be messed with. When a person does a negative deed towards a person. You get it back on you 3 times worse. I 've heard tones of disturbing stories. I met witches. I've had witches approach me. Telling me they saw something in my eyes. So yes witchcraft exists. Yes it does have power, but I don't think it has power that is supreme. I believe that supreme power lies in God.


[Edited on 5-11-2003 by oconnection]

[Edited on 5-11-2003 by oconnection]

But I won't ignore this one.

The first statement gives the subject matter of the Topic more credence than it deserves. You have no concept of Satanism or what organisations it could be linked to.

greenkoolaid is looking for some specific applications of symbolry. You will find the inverted pentagram being widely used in places as far afield as Mormonism, in da Vinci's portrait of a man, and apparently, in the Order of the Eastern Star.

But, you then follow up your short rant with a perfect demonstration of nonsense. Well done!

Follow the "logic" ( not quite the right word )

Christians say there is One True, God, and One True Religion: Christianity.

Christians say that Satan is the father of lies. False religions ( any other than Christianity, in their world view ) are based on lies. Therefore Satanic.

Ergo, anyone who worships any God but the Christians One True God is worshipping Satan. Which is not the same thing as Satanism.

Satanism, as used in America, means:

The worshiper acknowledges that there is a God in Heaven;
That the Christian Bible is Gods Sacred Word;
That there is a Devil or Satan in hell;
Knowing these things to be true, they worship Satan.

True Satanism is a deliberate informed choice. Worship of any God but the One True God is seen as Satanism by Christians.

Freemasons say that everybody is worshiping the same God in a different way. And that all religions are equally valid. Which is in direct contradiction to the Christian belief in One God worshipped in the Christian fashion.

So: Masons are NOT Satanic in the true and proper sense of deliberately worshipping Satan.

In the eyes of the Christian True Believer, they are spreading the heretical message that all Gods and belief systems are equally valid. Which viewpoint is unacceptable to the True Believer.

Knowing what you now know, you can decide for yourself.

I despise allreligions that arent wiccan or earth based

Originally posted by oconnection
Bleh a perfectly good subject ruined by people arguing about nonsense

The pentagram has commonly been associated with Satanism. It comes from wickia, each point being all the elements of earth. Christians would argue that wickia or witchcraft comes from Satan. Others would argue that witchcraft comes from the earth. I guess it's a matter of opinion.

My personal experience is that witchcraft is something not to be messed with. When a person does a negative deed towards a person. You get it back on you 3 times worse. I 've heard tones of disturbing stories. I met witches. I've had witches approach me. Telling me they saw something in my eyes. So yes witchcraft exists. Yes it does have power, but I don't think it has power that is supreme. I believe that supreme power lies in God.

You came on here and insulted our posts, I was simply biting back. You then proceeded to drone on about something that was totally irrelevant to what is being asked.

Let me clarfiy my question. Why does the Order of the Eastern Star use the pentagram as its sympbol? What does it mean to them? You can see it here:

www.easternstar.org...

One web site says this :

This is the problem with the OES. The people who put the order together back in the 19th century relied upon the familiarity with Matthew 2:2 as a common "Christmas verse." However, in light of the satanic symbolism involved in the OES, we need to look for another layer of meaning applied to that verse of scripture.

The A.V. 1611 text does not say "eastern star." It says "star in the east." The phrase "Eastern Star" has a specialized meaning in occultism.

It refers to the star, Sirius, which is the most significant star in Satanism! It is sacred to the god, Set. Remember Set as the evil Egyptian god who killed Osiris? Set is probably the oldest form of Satan! The Eastern Star is the star of Set.

However, deadly word games are being played here. Though most women involved in the OES doubtlessly assume they are worshiping Jesus as they kneel around a huge satanic pentagram, it is obvious that the "his" actually refers to Set's star, not Jesus' star.
www.chick.com...

And here is another website that deals with it:
www.saintsalive.com...


Basically what these sites are saying is that good Christian women are being unwittingly fooled into worshipping satan.




[Edited on 5-11-2003 by greenkoolaid]

Originally posted by Researcher


Freemasons say that everybody is worshiping the same God in a different way. And that all religions are equally valid. Which is in direct contradiction to the Christian belief in One God worshipped in the Christian fashion.

There are guys in my lodge who are Christians. Freemasonry does not tell you which god to worship or state that all religions are valid. It only states that all religions should be respected.
Freemasonry does not try to push any god on any man.

I did some checking with some masons more familiar with the OES, and this is what I was given:

Each of the five points corresponds to one of the five Heroines of the Order as follows:

Jepthah's Daughter
Ruth
Esther
Martha
Electa

"Electa" refers to that "elect lady" to whom John addressed his Epistle.
Many anti-Masons consider the Eastern Star a symbol of demonolatry. It is true that the inverted Pentagram contains occult meanings, but not "evil" ones. Nevertheless, it is not used in OES as an occult symbol at all, at least not one of that sort. Instead, it here refers to the Star of Bethlehem; the one point downward points the way to the Magi who seek the Christ Child. Thus the Order's motto, taken from the Gospel of Matthew: "We have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him."

Here's a link to some more stuff:
link

rahboni

Thanks very kindly for some education in co-Masonry.

Not two weeks ago I heard a verbal dressing down being delivered by a Mason against the Order Of The Eastern Star chapter for placing a recruitment advertisement into the local newspaper in his area.

Wheels and roundabouts, and pentagrams, and symbols.

MA & Greenkoolaid I was referring to earlier post where arguing was going on in earlier posts on this topic. You guys were arguing about how there are more rock metal Satanist then freemason Satanist. I made this comment because it was getting off the topic of the original post. That�s all.

Saying that I have no concept of Satanism is a matter or your opinion. I was simply sharing my experience. Is that not allowed? My opinion was based on a Christian viewpoint. I believe that most Christians and others would argue that I gave an accurate depiction of Satanism & witchcraft. To say that I know nothing on this topic again is a matter of opinion. I believe that was meant to be an insult that was not called for.

Originally posted by oconnection
MA & Greenkoolaid I was referring to earlier post where arguing was going on in earlier posts on this topic. You guys were arguing about how there are more rock metal Satanist then freemason Satanist. I made this comment because it was getting off the topic of the original post. That�s all.

.

Off topic i think not still talking about satanists be them freemasons or not satanists are satanists

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Some are, some aren't.

The proportion of Freemasons who are Satanic is probably a little lower than in the general population.

No offense by this, but I'm just wondering how a denomination/organization, or whatever it is can be part Godly/satanic....please excuse my ignorance.

It is not important Oconnection, you are entitled to your opinion. I thought you were insulting my original post and the questions I was asking. I never said you know nothing on the subject, just that you were answering a different question to the one I asked.

It must be noted that the UK is a protestant country. Most of it's population are members of the Church of England which broke away from the Vatican under Henry VIII.
Since that time, the monarch who sits on the throne has been the head of the Church - A Christian church.
Many kings of England have also held the position of Grand Master in Freemasonry as well.

It stands to reason that the head of the Church of England would not be the head of freemasony if it was in any way connected with satanism.
It would be much like saying that the Pope is a satanist.

[Edited on 4-11-2003 by MaskedAvatar]

Nice tryn but most metallers believe in Buddha i a kid you not they channel there energy through Buddha i read an interview from a magazine called PIT and there was an interview from a guy from a band called Morbid Angel
he was asked if he was actually a Satanist he replied "# No" .
O.K the lyrics may sound satanic tho but they have to go with the music you cant write lyrics about love to a really fast tune not in metal you cant

LOL Yeah right ..... I can see it now Buddhist monks sitting and listening to heavy metal music!!

I really can't help myself but ask you what are you TRYING to represent with your avatar .... Are you intentionally trying to look like a person that is not credible???


[edit on 3-3-2006 by PowerToThePeople]

[edit on 3-3-2006 by PowerToThePeople]

I must really be dense here....but between Lucifer Trust not “supposedly” having much of anything to do with Lucifer and the O.E.S using an inverted pentangle, I tend to get a little perplexed. I do not consider O.E.S to be a sister organization of Freemasonry though.

The Eastern Star uses an inverted pentangle and this is a symbol that is known to most mystics as the inverse nature of Divine Man(or the right-side up pentangle) so can anyone please explain to me why they got it in reverse?

Now, I could care less if certain Medals of Honor, or police use the inverted pentangle; and I'm not a big fan of medals anyhow but don’t you guys think that it is a VERY poor choice to use AN INVERTED pentangle considering that just about everyone from Rosicrucian’s, Jews, Christians and Masons themselves consider an upside pentangle to be something more or less, avoided?

Honestly, I have no darn clue but I would love to hear from someone who can actually explain this to me in an esoteric manner and still have it make some sense why they might use the inverse symbol of divine man.

Any takers?

“False religions ( any other than Christianity, in their world view ) are based on lies.”
actually this is a misstatement. Most xian denominations believe that
only Their particular flavor of the month is the chosen path. See Jack Chick,Fred Phelps,Texe Marrs, Pat Robertson ...






“The pentagram has commonly been associated with Satanism. “
this statement is Patently wrong. At my last count I had found
over 500 interpretations and/or definitions for the pentagram/pentacle
only one of which had any satanic relationship. There is also the FACT
that for many centuries the Pentagram was used by xianity as a symbol
for protection and to symbolize the 5 wounds of christ.

Stalkingwolf,

I find this response slightly aggravating – it’s as if you think it makes no difference at all which way the pentagram is used? It's clear that what also matters is the perverted use of a pentagram - and perverted is inverted, see? Thus inverted = materialistic = Satanic and we should not be confusing this timeless truth with the idea that Christians mislabel everything as "Satanic".

"The pentagram has commonly been associated with Satanism. “
This statement is Patently wrong. At my last count I had found
over 500 interpretations and/or definitions for the pentagram/pentacle
only one of which had any satanic relationship. There is also the FACT
that for many centuries the Pentagram was used by xianity as a symbol
for protection and to symbolize the 5 wounds of christ.

The pentagram has been used as a holy symbol to represent divine man – the divine selfhood, and that of the Holy Archangels - this symbol IS HOLY and is still used for protection (I use it myself) but this not what we need to have explained. Now, the very fact that a clairvoyant can see the image of an upside-down pentagram on the humans' chakras, as proof of someone attacked by a negative elemental (and also it's color), seems to suggest that when an inverted pentagram is used, it’s nature accords that with something OTHER than the standard pentagram which we can use for protection. Not only inverted but also a corrupted pentagram can also be used in selfish magic.

You did not explain why the divine selfhood of man should be used in an upside-down fashion.

You did not explain why the divine selfhood of man should be used in an upside-down fashion.

From my limited knowledge of LaVeys Church of Satan my guess would be chaos and self indulgence/self gratification inplace of fundamentalist strictures denial based on ungrounded infallibility. Or in other words Why should we listen to the Pope on matters of sex? If he knows anything about it, He Shouldn't.

I also wear a Pentagram or more precisley a Tetragramaton. For those who are not familiar with
early symbology The Pentagram was and is a symbol of perfection,and of The Goddess Venus.
Perfection because is reflects the Golden proportion Phi, Venus the planet because the planet follows a pentaganal course that traces a perfect pentagram every 8 years ( the olympics are set on a half cycle 4yrs of this.)

As for the OES logo, if you look at the symbols with in the points it is possible that the
single point down could symbolize the spirit of the GAOTU returning to or being sent to
humankind.

I also wear a Pentagram or more precisley a Tetragramaton. For those who are not familiar with early symbology The Pentagram was and is a symbol of perfection,and of The Goddess Venus.

I also use the Tetragrammaton (6-pointed star) - a very powerful symbol and it can only be used for good - from what I understand anyhow. The pentagram fits inside of the Tetragrammaton and it is completed with the cross (of the Kabala) inside of the pentagram.

As for the OES logo, if you look at the symbols with in the points it is possible that the single point down could symbolize the spirit of the GAOTU returning to or being sent to humankind.

I hope you're right about their intension of the GAOTU because I have never read or seen used this pentagram symbol (when inverted or broken) for anything other than in a "perverted" fashion and I would never dare want to use or display it as inverted on my door!


[edit on 4-3-2006 by markusjharper]