As A few here on ATS know already I deliver kitchens for a living,more and more I am hearing rumours of diesel engines running on anything from sunflower oil to vegetable oil?

In was wondering if any of the more chemically minded of our members could give me any more infomation on this?


1. Does your engine need any modifacations?

2Is any specielist equipment needed?

3 if so is it easy to build and operate?

4 would the miles per gallon be the same?

5any other details you may have ...cheers Kuhl

[edit on 7/9/2006 by kuhl]

Thanks solid sho ,I am aware of the taxation laws in the UK ,didn't know about the chippy smell though ty m8.

posted by kuhl
I am hearing rumors of diesel engines running on anything from sunflower oil to vegetable oil? In was wondering if any of the more chemically minded of our members could give me any more information on this?
1. any modification?
2. special equipment needed?
3. easy to build and operate?
4. miles per gallon be the same?
5. any other details you may have ...cheers [Edited by Don W]

I think you have been linked to a very good thread on converting used cooking oil into usable fuel for a diesel engine. The secret of low cost is getting the cooking oil free. Picking it up from restaurants mainly. I’m sure some people are able to do that. Large chain restaurants tend to contract with national firms for that service, so the best sources are already spoken for, putting newcomers at a distinct disadvantage. The pickup company often furnishes enough 55 gallon drums to hold the output between scheduled pickups. A “hit and miss” service is not good enough for the businesses who are strctly regulated on waste disposal. Many site managers do not have authority to make changes.

Because diesel is compression ignition, I suppose any hydro-carbon based fuel would work. But fuel is put into the combustion chamber by an injector which is a very precise measuring instrument. Engines come with injectors intended to run on commercial pump fuel. I think it is called #2. I doubt there is much tolerance in the injection system for a variety of fuels. I do know the individual injectors and the attendant pumps are quite expensive. As usual, the little guy is at a distinct disadvantage competing with multi-billion dollar high tech industrial companies.

Over here, in NE FL, diesel is selling for $2.85-$3.05 per US gallon at gasoline service stations. Usually a nickel or a dime higher than 87 gas. Taxes on fuel here amount to less than $1.00. The retailer’s usual margin - mark-up - is about 15 or 20 cents a gallon.

A good thread is named "High Gas, So what. Lets Talk Biodiesel" but I doin't know how to link you to it.

Advice: Stay with what you know. Deliver more kitchens.



[edit on 9/7/2006 by donwhite]

Don't run diesel myself but a few guys I know reckon that buying it straight from Aldi / cost Co etc in big bottles is still cheaper than diesel.

They also tell me (but check it out properly before attempting) that you can add c. 10% oil to diesel without any conversion. With diesel @ C. £1 ltr many cheap food olils are significantly cheaper.

Obviously you need to factor in the tax

HTH



[edit on 7/9/2006 by Strangerous]

Thanks everyone for all the infomation ...very helpful.

Me and gradyPhillpot had a similar discussion afew weeks back on the same subject. I know a friend in the business, it really is quite simple:

-He sells the oil to various companies and big food chains
-Because the oil legally can't be dumped he collects it for free(most big chains will be more than happy to give it away).
-A good filter to clear the rubbish out of it
-He then sells it at a pump adding further profit.

To save the hassle it would be far easier buying from a supermarket/mall.. And if your stuck for a business.. well it's pretty much win, win

I don't doubt that for optimal operation and mileage a diesel engine needs to be properly constructed or re-tuned for cooking oil (although it will run on it for a while, with no modifications).

I heard from a fairly reliable source that Russian tanks were/are capable of running on vegetable oil if necessary (by design), and there were a few controls in the engine that needed to be put in appropriately marked positions when you switched from common diesel to oil.

Originally posted by Aelita
I heard from a fairly reliable source that Russian tanks were/are capable of running on vegetable oil if necessary (by design), and there were a few controls in the engine that needed to be put in appropriately marked positions when you switched from common diesel to oil.

I do believe that that most US military vehicles can run on a variety of different "fuels".

Yep, everything I have heard suggests that running a deisel engine on cooking oil is relatively easy and only marginally less efficient that conventional fuels. What the long term cost is in terms of engine life is anybody's guess.

So, if anyboby wants to try it please go ahead, the rest of us will just carry on paying the additional tax revenues that anybody who does this is evading.

Thanks for your contribution to society...

Does anyone have any info on emissions?
Cheaper and renewable is good in the short term, but if it's dumping more carbon into the air it's not a good thing for the long term.

BTW, before anyone starts thinking that using plant based oils is the great save against peak oil, remember that we still have to grow the plants to make the stuff out of. At the moment the energy conversion rates suck. We're putting 2000 calories of petro-chemical (in the form of feralizer and pestacide) into 1 calorie of plant matter.
That's mathmatics for losing.
This is also why corn-based ethonal is a pipe-dream.

Have any of you guys seen the show "Dirty Jobs"? I forget what exact channel it's on, but I occasionally catch it - great show, funny host!

There was one episode where the host went to visit some man out in the southwest (NM or AZ I believe - but it doesn't really matter) and he went around for a day with a man who owned a 1980's pickup truck made by Datsun I believe. He followed the guy around for a day or so and they went to all kinds of restaurants to pick up their used oil.

Unfortunately, the man who owned the truck had a HUGE apparatus in an old barn that he used to filter/purify/whatever all the old oil before he could fill it into his truck. Unfortunately, it took hours per load. Hope it helps, my science background is very limited.

If you want free gas for your diesel, try to find someone who works at your nearby airport. My father worked for AMR-COMBS (parent company of American Airlines) and now works for Bombardier (owns Learjet) and has always gotten all the free kerosene-type-fuel (jet-fuel, works in diesels) he wanted. He explained that after every engine test their have to get rid of all the fuel anyway.

Most of what I have read is been about converting waste vegatable oil into biodiesel. The WVO must be heated to evaporate the water, then add a certain amount of Sodium Hydroxide so that the glycerin in the WVO will separate, leaving biodiesel. It is then suggested that the diesel be washed in an additional process.

From what I have read, the need to change fuel filters is due to the biodiesel cleaning the fuel system. This is done once.

There are many many sites dedicated to the topic, and most provide good examples of how to build your own biodiesel "reactor"

posted by dmg3417

I have read about converting waste vegetable oil into biodiesel. The WVO must be heated to evaporate the water, then add a certain amount of Sodium Hydroxide so that the glycerin in the WVO will separate, leaving biodiesel. It is then suggested that the diesel be washed in an additional process. [Edited by Don W]

Sodium Hydroxide is for sale at 50% concentration, but is highly caustic. It is dangerous and can cause serious chemical burns. It quickly unites with water and in the process creates a lot of heat. Eye protection and rubber gloves are a "Must Do" when handling sodium hydroxide.



[edit on 9/9/2006 by donwhite]