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The Iranian Saegheh more capable than an F-18?

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posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 01:54 AM
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While reading a report on the Iranian Nuke issue i stumbled across this...



In a separate development, Iran has announced that it has developed a new aircraft named Saegheh (Thunder), which it described as close to the American F-18 fighter jet. General Attollah Salehi, the commander of the Iranian army, was quoted by the state news agency IRNA as saying the fighter jet is similar to the F-18, but more capable. It was manufactured domestically.


source

I'm no military expert, but if this is true this has to be a massive step forward for the Iranian military..

Thoughts? I'm going to see if i can find any more info about this mystery plane..

[edit on 12/06/2005 by kojac]




posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 02:30 AM
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Its not, more closely related to the F-5 but resembles a YF-17

Heres the lastest pictures









posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 05:34 AM
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It could basically contain anything inside.

The Iranians have been getting ship loads of new equipment from Russia and China in missiles, cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, air defence equipment, fast torpedo's etc....

I wouldn't be surprised if Russia and China where sending them aircraft parts as well like radars and fire control systems etc...

correct me if im wrong but just going on "looks" of the thing as in size wise it seems as if it could be big enough to house fire control systems, radars etc... from an SU-27(SU-30mk, SU-35 etc..) or a MiG-31.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 05:53 AM
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Interesting design concepts on the aircraft for stealth.


take a look at this picture:


If you lokk at the RED square you will see that they have indented air intakes which will reduce the RCS from straight ahead becuase they will limit radar reflection from the engine.

Second GREEN square you have what seems to be a radar absorbing "block/mat" on the back near the tail fins in black. This will also help reduce RCS.

Then you have the tail fins which are slanted as you can see in this picture :



and then they have also other stealth features as well. Again look at the above picture and take a look a where the cockpit is and then take a look at the angle of the cockpit area all the way down to the tail and you will notice it is at an angle. And then take a look at the same cockput lane but this time look at it twards the air-intake side and you will notice this is also at an angle.

And also once again look at the air-intakes where they are indented this will also reduce RCS fromt he exterior of the aircraft.

Then take a look at the main wings it has a "double-delta" type configuration which should reduce RCS even more.

This aircraft has extensive RCS reducing measures introduced into it's design.

If a war breaks out don't be surprused to see the Iranians flying this coated 100% with RAM paint and using this as a stealth aircraft.

Although the basic design is still sahres same features as the F-5 you can see there are signifcant improvements to the exterior of the aircraft to RCS although the layout seems the same apart fromt he tail. With improved redesign of the air intakes, wing etc...



[edit on 7-9-2006 by iqonx]



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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sadly, I couldn't see that airintake which be hooded.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 07:18 AM
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Iqonx,

I think you've misinterpreted the intake indentations. The F-5, which this jet is based on, was desinged before aerospace engineers had a solid hold on the area rule, the indentations were implemented to compensate for the wing's influence on the aircraft's cross-sectional area. The same feature is quite apparent on the F-5, and has nothing to do with reducing RCS.

Looking the jet over, I can't spot many stealthy features. The canted out tails will help, but the jet lacks any saw-toothing you'd need to keep radar from reflecting off seams in the airframe (cockpit, landing gear doors, engine exhaust). Most modern designs try to conceal their IR signature by using the tail planes to mask the exhaust, but this jet leaves the exhaust in plain sight for any FLIR system to see.

Sorry, but this thing - while an impressive upgrade over the F-5 and almost certainly carrying modern avionics, engines, and sensors - isn't any stealthier than F/A-18A/B was. An AESA radar on a US jet will detect it quite easily.

[edit on 7-9-2006 by RedMatt]



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by RedMatt
Iqonx,

I think you've misinterpreted the intake indentations. The F-5, which this jet is based on, was desinged before aerospace engineers had a solid hold on the area rule, the indentations were implemented to compensate for the wing's influence on the aircraft's cross-sectional area. The same feature is quite apparent on the F-5, and has nothing to do with reducing RCS.


The whole air-intake is redesigned on the new Iranian version of the aircraft it is very difficult to spot the change but it is a complete redesign from front to back.

On the origanal F-5 the air intake is "semi-circle" shaped and on the new version the intake is actually square and also the indentations are actually different as well from the original F-5 design:



Although you are correct about the origanal aircraft. The new Iranian aircraft has introduced RCS reducing measures in the air intake system which didn't exist in the previous design.


Originally posted by RedMatt
Looking the jet over, I can't spot many stealthy features. The canted out tails will help, but the jet lacks any saw-toothing you'd need to keep radar from reflecting off seams in the airframe (cockpit, landing gear doors, engine exhaust). Most modern designs try to conceal their IR signature by using the tail planes to mask the exhaust, but this jet leaves the exhaust in plain sight for any FLIR system to see.

Sorry, but this thing - while an impressive upgrade over the F-5 and almost certainly carrying modern avionics, engines, and sensors - isn't any stealthier than F/A-18A/B was. An AESA radar on a US jet will detect it quite easily.

[edit on 7-9-2006 by RedMatt]


I don't really expect this to bee pure 100% stealth either like the F-22 and i also like you would expect this to be on a F-18 level of "stealth". with RAM coating i would expect the RCS to reduce significantly more.

I can't remember the name of another Iranian aircraft but it was shown coated in what seemed to be RAM similar to the F-117a type RAM material.

But it is a serious improvement over the origanal design and the stealth aspects introduced here are are obvious.

I think Iran is starting to demonstrate an improvment in capabilities in all fields of weapons/military technology.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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I think he means the air intakes are hiding the turbine compressor fan



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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I don't see too much that can done to the bulkhead behind the pilot's head. Throw in some stores and pylons, and you will probably get a fairly standard radar return for an aircraft that size.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 06:14 PM
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People seem to forget that marginal benefits in the aircraft are far outweighed by the standard to which the pilots are trained and the combet experience they have seen in their aircraft. I feel that if this was to come up against a well experienced Western Airforce they would stand little chance, even with the homefield advantage as the likely forces that will go into Iran (Israel, US, Uk) have received a lot of experience on similar terrain.

Jensy



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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Cool. It's been said before, but I need to emphaise this- it looks a LOT like the likely offspring of the F-18 E/F and the F-5. Not that it's a bad thing. It almost looks like the MiG trainer that the Russians have (not sure of designation). The only thing I think might be nicer was if the front of the cockpit had a bit more "droop" to it like on the F-5. Gives you a fractionally better sight range, which might be handy on finals. Other than that this looks like a really fun jet to fly. A civilian version of this (hopefully relatively cheaper) would be awesome. If I had the cash I'd grab one of these just cuz I love the F-5 for its maneuverability and the twin slanted tails? Irresistable.

What can I say? I loves the looks.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 08:58 PM
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Yeah, looks like they just took the F-5 and went a different direction with it. The other direction is the F-20, but let's not go there. To me, it looks like something a country trying to develop a solid aero industry would make. It's not great, probably a third gen aircraft, but it's damn near impossible to jump into fourth and even harder to go straight to fifth or sixth (UCAVs). Performance near the F-18? Well, it may have some of the alpha performance, as for the rest, well that's another issue. Unless they've got some damn good avionics, it won't be comparable. With horrendous wingloading like that thing has it won't be able to do all that much and probably would work only as a point defense fighter.

The indent in the inlets is much more likely from area rule calculations. In other words, its there to reduce drag, stealth would be a good side effect, but I don't know if there's enough kink in the inlets to do much for stealth. I really don't think any of us know, or if we do... the person would have men in black suit at their door if they said anything.


MBF

posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 10:23 PM
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Looks like a Javelin which is based on the T-38 to me. The F-5's are based on the T-38 also.

www.airtouring.com...



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 10:34 PM
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Another cool pic...





posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 12:16 AM
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So it looks like there has been some mistake, apparently the above fighter is the "Azarakhsh" ..


Iran announced on Thursday it has developed a new war plane -- named the "Azarakhsh" (Lightning) -- which it describes as similar to the American F-5. "The Azarakhsh fighter jet has been completely manufactured by Iran and it is comparable to the F-5 fighter jet," Brigadier General Javad Mohammadian was quoted as saying by the state news agency IRNA.


Souce

At the same source, it is suggesting that the Saegheh is a completly different plane..


Iran on Wednesday had announced the development of a war plane named "Saegheh" (Thunder), which it described as similar to the American F-18 fighter jet.


hmm..

Interestingly, Iran seems to have developed a new laser guided 2000 pound bomb. Perhaps for use on their new fighter/bomber? They've certainly been busy!

www.spacewar.com...

[edit on 12/06/2005 by kojac]

[edit on 12/06/2005 by kojac]



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 02:35 AM
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Theres an article here about one of their 2000lb bombs doesn't give a huge amount of information though



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 03:27 AM
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theres another article here about the Saegheh link although an iranian general claims it is comparable to a f18 they seem to be sceptical



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by solidshot
theres another article here about the Saegheh link although an iranian general claims it is comparable to a f18 they seem to be sceptical


To be fair, Nobody really knows whats inside the aircraft like electronics, radars, firecontrol systems etc..

There are some aircraft out there that are as good or better then the F-18 in Russia and the Russians will have no problem selling Iran components or parts which could be used inside this aircraft allowing it to be on the level of an F-18.

Or on the other hand this could just be a crappy plane with a new body.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what it is really like.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by iqonx
There are some aircraft out there that are as good or better then the F-18 in Russia and the Russians will have no problem selling Iran components or parts which could be used inside this aircraft allowing it to be on the level of an F-18.


Actually there aren't any components the Russians would be able to fit into a F-5 chassis, except for an avionics suite.
The engine would most certainly be the one used in the F-5.
Infact the engines could the very same ones used from cannibalised F-5 not aerodynamically fit for flight anymore.
I doubt Iran could have perfected an engine for an aircraft of this size as yet esp with all those embargoes, when the Chinese and the Indians are still evolving their engine designs.
There are no visible stealth characteristics. The fuselage IS that of a F-5 (no doubt here) though the forward wing edges indicate a bit of LERX.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Actually there aren't any components the Russians would be able to fit into a F-5 chassis, except for an avionics suite.


Yeah i meant that the Iranians could get the components or parts and then manufacture there own version based on the Russians supplied technology which would fit into the Iranian aircraft.


Originally posted by Daedalus3
The engine would most certainly be the one used in the F-5.
Infact the engines could the very same ones used from cannibalised F-5 not aerodynamically fit for flight anymore.


The Iraninas manufacture the own F-5 engines which are supposed to be slightly improved versions and they have been manufacturing them for years so they wouldn't need to cannibalise anything because they could just manufacture them from scratch.


Originally posted by Daedalus3
I doubt Iran could have perfected an engine for an aircraft of this size as yet esp with all those embargoes, when the Chinese and the Indians are still evolving their engine designs.


Either these engines are purchased from Russia or they are Iranian manufactured copies of the original F-5 engines.

But to be fair the Iranians are much more advanced then India when it comes down to manufacturing engines, weapons, helipcopters, planes, missiles etc...

The Iranians weapons manufacturing base is significantly more advanced then India's. They have been manufacturing helicopter gunships like the Cobra based gunships which have been upgraded and modifyed and sell them accross the world.

Also they make and sell spare parts for helicopter engines and other aircraft engines.

They sell about $100 million dollars a year worth of weapons around the world each year to over 50 countries.



After decades of relying on foreign weapons purchases, Iran now says it is increasingly self-sufficient, claiming it annually exports more than $100 million worth of military equipment to more than 50 countries.
news.yahoo.com...


You cannot compare Iran to India becuase Iran is much more advanced in this field then India.

Also the Chinese are trying to manufacture different types of much more advanced engines similar to the ones used in the latest f-18 and the types used in the F-16 so they are obviously going to have a much harder time.


Originally posted by Daedalus3
There are no visible stealth characteristics. The fuselage IS that of a F-5 (no doubt here) though the forward wing edges indicate a bit of LERX.


I have to disagree. Although this aircraft is not a stealth aircraft i think it's ovious that certain aspects can be seen and it's obvious the Iranians put them there intentionally for the purpose of reduced RCS.

I also disagree that the body is of a F-5 altough it may be based on it and share similar charecteristics i blive it has enough differences on the outside and inside to be classified as a new aircraft.



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