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A film alleging U.S special forces killed over 3000 Afghans detainees and buried them!!!

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posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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The Usual Suspects


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Atrocities, brutality, abuse, and cruelty were pretty much the norm before the US or even Saddam showed up on the scene.

It will continue LONG after the west leaves the middle east.

Indeed, the history of Afghanistan is hardly one of pastoral bliss.

The Pashtun people are the descendants of fierce warriors whose culture evolved from centuries of continuous conflict. Even today, the "tribal areas" in Pakistan and Afghanistan are some of the most dangerous places on earth, with ongoing feuds and vendettas dating back generations in some cases.

Violence and treachery are nothing new in Afghanistan.

In this case, there are definitely mass graves involved, but there are serious questions surrounding who is buried in them, how many people are buried in them and how they got there.

In many cases, it's not even clear if the graves were put there by the Taliban, Northern Alliance or local warlords, or if U.S. forces were actually involved with them -- which is an important thing to know.

As an American, I'm not happy to see anyone buried in mass graves, but if my nation has been complicit in committing war crimes and atrocities, I damn sure want to know about it.

And no, it wouldn't be the first time by a longshot, and I know that too.

But the U.S. should not be blamed for crimes it doesn't commit. If we're going to take blame for something, it should at least be something we've actually done.

Thus a reasonable standard of evidence is needed if this is to go any farther than finger-pointing.



[edit on 9/10/2006 by Majic]




posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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From my favorite world guide book:

"Friendly, beautiful Afghanistan was once well known on the backpacking circuit as the place to stop for unparalleled hospitality, fantastic food, great hiking and...um...OK, we'll say it, that legendary hashish. Things, sadly, have changed."

My emphasis.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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Hitchhiker's Guide To Afghanistan


Originally posted by SteveR
From my favorite world guide book:

Could you provide a little more background on this guidebook?

I'm curious as to what time period it is referring to. Was it describing:

1. The Soviet war in Afghanistan?

2. The Civil war after the Soviet withdrawal?

3. The Reign of the Taliban?

Or perhaps a time before all that, during the reign of King Mohammed Zahir Shah which ended over three decades ago?

I think some context would be helpful if you're trying to make a point.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
In short, Sherberghan, Mazar-I-Sharif, and Bamiyan, and as to the pictures, did you see this link?
www.phrusa.org...


No I had not seen that link and you are right it does confirm they do exist. It also confirms according to their sources US forces were not involved in a huge portion of the alleged deaths. It also states some of the victims were killed by the Taliban in 1998



Source

Summary of Witness Statements: One eyewitness stated to PHR that this site contains the remains of over 2,000 victims from the conflict to capture the city of Mazar-I-Sharif in 1998.

Another independent account of an eyewitness reported to PHR states that bodies were brought to the gravesite by the Taliban after the fall of Mazar-I-Sharif over a period of two days. It is estimated by the eyewitness that the site contains as many 500 victims.

Another account states that bodies were brought to the gravesite in Russian Kamos flatbed trucks. According to this report, some people were killed at the site and some bodies were brought to the site already dead. It was also reported that some of the dead bodies had their hands tied behind their backs.





same source
Summary of Witness Statements: According to independent interviews conducted by PHR in the afternoon, the remains in these graves allegedly are those of "Bamiyan Fighters" who had been caught and killed by the Taliban. Apparently, unfamiliar with the area around Mazar-I-Sharif, they became lost when fleeing from Mazar-I-Sharif when the Taliban took the city (1997/1998) and were killed in the village of Yaka Tut. The deaths allegedly took place over a three-day period during Ramadan, three days after the Taliban captured Mazar-I-Sharif. The witness told PHR that the bodies were left in the open for approximately two weeks, before local residents felt secure enough to bury them in these graves.


Note the above for sites one and two appear to be Taliban related and if the figures are correct that accounts for roughly 2/3rds to 3/4 of the alleged deaths, yet the original article clearly tried to lay the blame solely on the Americans, which according to the accusers was clearly not the case by their own words on their own website.

The origin story also stated they were put into enclosed trucks, while the account given here clearly states Russian trucks, with flat beds.

The web of deceit gets bigger and bigger as you and I can both see. I have yet to read everything on this link and it will take me a while. Earlier I had just come in from cutting my lawn and had a splitting head ache because I raced around trying to beat the rain and even a short nap did not help it all that much. I will read it some more when the head ache goes away.

We have now established yes it did happen and we have now established that Americans were clearly not to blame for the majority of the deaths. Goes to show you how the media can blow things out of proportion or was it perhaps intentional misinformation by the human rights group trying to make it look like Americans were responsible


[edit on 9/10/2006 by shots]



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 06:18 PM
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OK continuation of my findings again all are from the very same source.



Source

Site #3:
Summary of Witness Statements: According to one informant, over 50 people were killed at this site. The surviving family members are reported to have fled. There are no eyewitnesses to this event.


Site #4:

Summary of Witness Statements: According to the villagers this is an exclusively Tajik village. The victims in the four graves are alleged to be Taliban who died in combat with General Dostum's Uzbek soldiers three years ago and then were buried by the villagers because dogs were scavenging the bodies. The Taliban soldiers allegedly killed seventeen villagers in the first days of their attack on Mazar-I-Sharif. They reportedly died in crossfire between Taliban and Uzbek/Hazara fighters.

Site #5:

Summary of Witness Statements: According to witness statements collected by PHR, the majority of the population of this part of Mazar-I-Sharif belongs to the Hazara ethnic group. When the Taliban occupied Mazar-I-Sharif, looting, killing and kidnappings reportedly took place in this part of town over a period of four to five days. According to one witness, about 50 civilians were killed and about 20 to 25 were kidnapped and subsequently 'disappeared'. The victims were all Hazara and followers of the Shia religion. Reportedly, none of them were fighters. The bodies were left out in the street out of fear of reprisal over the period of several days, after which permission was requested and granted by the governor of Balkh province to bury them. The cemetery gravedigger estimates that there are between 80 and 100 victims, men and women, but no children. He told PHR that he buried bodies in several graves at the cemetery.

Site #6:

Summary of Witness Statements: According to the witnesses interviewed by PHR, 2 women and 68 men were killed by the Taliban in house to house searches in 1997. The village was abandoned and most inhabitants escaped to Mazar-I-Sharif. After three days they returned and re-captured the village, reportedly killing 20 Taliban fighters. The village was held for a year after this incident, until the Taliban re-captured the village in 1998. Grave #1 contains the remains of 49 men and 1 woman. Grave #2 contains the remains of 19 men and 1 women.

Site #7:
Summary of Witness Statements: According to a witness interviewed by PHR, when the Taliban came to the village for the first time, they killed approximately 15 villagers, mutilating some of the bodies. Some villagers were also arrested and taken away, never to be seen again. Since Pashtuns occupied the village after this incident, the families were not allowed to bury the remains at the local cemetery. They took the remains to a village where they were buried. This is a Hazara village, where most are allied to the Wahdat, and some to the Harakat factions.

Site #8:

General Information: The site is situated on the western side of the dirt road and consists of a large area with evidence of heavy machinery movement, including track and blade marks. It is alleged, and there is speculation from well-informed international observers, that this site could have been the disposal ground of some of the Taliban fighters who surrendered to the Northern Alliance in November and December of 2001.

Site #9:

General Information: The expansive area is littered with both exploded, and unexploded ordinances consisting of large artillery-type projectiles and empty cartridge casings. PHR was led to this site by two witnesses. The site was identified as the place where they had taken their dead after the Taliban captured their village.



There you go a brief of ALL Nine sites and according to their own words all Taliban related and that includes those sites that the enclosed trucks were seen.

I think we can both agree now that they would be in deep do do if and when this gets into a court of law trying to lay the blame on Americans when they in their own words on their own website exonerated them by clearly stating the sites contain bodies of individuals whose deaths were at the hands of the Taliban wouldn't you say?

As I see it there is only one site with little information and that is site three with 50 individuals, however assuming it is in the very same general area as the others I would tend to think that too is Taliban related although not certain by any means.

Thanks for that link Twichy. I feel much better knowing that they were not all caused by Americans as the article tried to imply.

Ignorance has been denied (not to you but to the OP)



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 07:14 PM
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Sorry, all I have is this.

www.lonelyplanet.com...

I 'spose that's no good. No way to know unless we can talk to someone who actually backpacked there before the war.

Maybe some areas were much better than others?



[edit on 10/9/06 by SteveR]



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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One of my brother's went backpacking through Afghanistan during the '70's. Indeed, it used to be a stop on what was euphemisticly referred to as, "the hippie trail". He enjoyed it. He didn't enjoy Iran as much. The food was crap apparently, among other things. I also worked with a guy who took his honeymoon in Iran. He went caving there. He said, the Iranian's were, well, people. Some are militant, some moderate. They don't all sit around in their lounge rooms shouting death to the great satan 24/7.

If it's so easy to go and check it out, then why don't you go and do it, shots? Not that I recommend you do, I'd fear for your safety. C'mon dude it is a warzone a.t.m and, while not impossible, I wouldn't suggest people do that without serious backup and support.

Deny denial


[edit on 10-9-2006 by fingapointa]


bih

posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by nephyx

its not like they do anything positive for the rest of the world.


and what does the US do positive
kill woman and children



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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So, any verification on this yet?

It's worth the time to check this out.



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 05:11 PM
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I accounted for virtually all of those that were shot above on this page.

According to the ones who made the unfounded allegations in their own words on their own website state the sites contained Taliban fighters mostly.



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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Maybe this Article Explains it;


The American Military's Cult of Cruelty

In the week that George Bush took to fantasising that his blood-soaked "war on terror" would lead the 21st century into a "shining age of human liberty" I went through my mail bag to find a frightening letter addressed to me by an American veteran whose son is serving as a lieutenant colonel and medical doctor with US forces in Baghdad. Put simply, my American friend believes the change of military creed under the Bush administration--from that of "soldier" to that of "warrior"--is encouraging American troops to commit atrocities;



I am an American soldier.

I am a warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the Unites States and live the Army values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat. I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American soldier.


Like most Europeans--and an awful lot of Americans--I was quite unaware of this ferocious "code" for US armed forces, although it's not hard to see how it fits in with Bush's rantings. I'm tempted to point this out in detail, but my American veteran did so with such eloquence in his letter to me that the response should come in his words: "The Warrior Creed," he wrote, "allows no end to any conflict accept total destruction of the 'enemy'. It allows no defeat ... and does not allow one ever to stop fighting (lending itself to the idea of the 'long war'). It says nothing about following orders, it says nothing about obeying laws or showing restraint. It says nothing about dishonourable actions ...".

Well...

The Warriors sure Destroyed of the Enemy there.

Great Job!


But where is that Osama Dude?



Bullets keep flying, Bombs keep eploding and People Keep Dying!



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Maybe this Article Explains it;



No it will not explain one thing. The ones that alleged this took place vindicated Americans and placed the blame on the Taliban. You can read it and weep. See top of this page



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