It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A film alleging U.S special forces killed over 3000 Afghans detainees and buried them!!!

page: 3
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 04:32 AM
link   
an interesting snippet @ 08:32 >>>

" everything was under the control of the american commander"..........

" 2 or 3 hundred bodies were put in each container " ...........

" they were then taken to thier final destination and burried " ..............

that is the testimony of an anonymous afghan

i dont want to take it out of context , but his specific refference to BODIES is worthy of note -- implying , in my mind at least that they were already dead .

IMHO that could very easily be a misinterpreted account of the dosposal of bodies , killed during earlier combat opeartions

with the cited " 2 to 3 hundred " bodies , you cannot just dump them anywhere , they have to be burried in a location that will not cause contamination of local water sources , and be covered with enough soil and rubble to prevent carrion feeders getting to them

ergo - load the bodies into containers and drive them an unspecified distance to a prepared burrial ground .

YMMV

but thats my opinion , and it fits the tesimony




posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 04:44 AM
link   
A Friendly Reminder: Courtesy Is Mandatory

Without pointing fingers, things got a bit heated on the previous page, and I want to remind members that personal attacks and insults are prohibited by the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

Further behavior of this kind for any reason ("retaliation" is not a valid reason for violating the T&C) may result in red-flag warnings or other actions.

I changed the title of this thread to hopefully reduce the distraction it was causing, and urge all members to focus on the topic itself.

The charges being made are serious, and the opinions of all members on the topic are welcome -- provided they are expressed in accordance with the T&C.

Let's please respect the importance of this principle.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 04:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
muslims made some contributions to society, however IMHO they are mostly detrimental to society.


Originally posted by nephyx
if they were real taliban fighters and devout muslims.. Wheres the problem here?


Originally posted by nephyx
its not like they do anything positive for the rest of the world.


If someone said, or even really implied, the same thing about Jews they would be immediately demonized in post after post, if not post banned from the board. Why is that I wonder... It's okay to be a racist as long as you hate the right people?
There was a recent thread on biggotry by one of our newer supermods, was it worth the pixles it took up, or do we allow racism and boggotry against muslims only? That's pretty disgusting. Double standards are great, if you're the one selling tickets to the show that is.
There are people in the world right now with a vested interest in making sure you hate Muslims. Ever really sit back and wonder why you hate muslims? Can you even stop long enough to question it? It may dissapoint, even anger, some of you to learn that most people, (Jews, Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese, French, etc.) are ordinary every day people, we all eat, sleep, poop, make babies, and try to get by. Anything more than that is what we call politics. You start mixing hate with politics, then you are truly lost my friends.

What if your mother was a muslim?
Think about that for a second. Would you hate her too? Would be so quick to mitigate her murder nephyx?
Detrimental to society xphiles? Whose Society? Yours? What about their society?Pretty sick man.

Call me pyschic, but now that someone has spoken out in defense of muslims, I predict that some majical someone will only now tell us about staying on topic, remind of what the thread is about and mention, in passing of course, that we should avoid biggotry, embrace tolerance, blah blah blah. Never mind the Muslim bashing and excusing their alleged murders because of their race that went on for two pages...
Faux Pas and Touche.


Edit:
I was right, just missed posting it in time to call it a prediction by mere seconds...


[edit on 9-9-2006 by twitchy]



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 04:58 AM
link   
Psychic Hotline


Originally posted by twitchy
Call me pyschic, but now that someone has spoken out in defense of muslims, I predict that some majical someone will only now tell us about staying on topic, remind of what the thread is about and mention, in passing of course, that we should avoid biggotry, embrace tolerance, blah blah blah. Never mind the Muslim bashing and excusing their alleged murders because of their race that went on for two pages...

I commend your foresight, but nonetheless ask that you respect the importance of addressing the topic itself.

If you want to talk about bias, bigotry, etc. on the part of members or staff, I recommend contributing to or starting a thread in Website-Related Discussion or Board Business & Questions. As you alluded, I started a thread on bigotry and encourage all members to comment candidly on the subject -- where doing so is on-topic.

If you have a complaint about a specific member or moderator, a complaint is appropriate.

Indulging yourself in off-topic digressions is not.

Please respect the topic and the terms under which we must discuss it by refraining from further off-topic commentary in this thread.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 06:58 AM
link   
With all due respect and deference to the irritated folks involved here, I would like to reiterate one question and add to it. Has anyone done any further investigating to see if, in fact, there has been a "further investigation"? I understand that this situation is probably three plus years old. If that's the case and there is smoke, as well as fire, I would suspect that we would have heard further of it by now. That kind of allegation, if true, wouldn't fly well here in America... I don't care what some of the people who have a hate on for the USA say.

I am pretty tired right now, and the name escapes me, but what about that little town where the Marines were purported to have killed all those civilians. It's under investigation, and rightfully so. However, it didn't appear to take all that much prompting by the people who were allegedly involved, to get the military off the dime and into investigative mode.

Further, I shuddered when I saw some of the usual suspects who appear to delight in posting inflammatory and instigatory material post here. Glad I'm not a moderator. I understand that everyone has or should have a voice on ATS/BTS/PTS, but I think it would behoove you to consider what you post in order to maintain an aura of credibility, and not just one that people look at and shake their heads.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 08:34 AM
link   
This was shown on australian t.v sometime in 2002, I believe. When I read this thread, it immediately rang a bell. I haven't been able to watch the movie from the links, but the initial descriptions here and further descriptions on other websites are the same as the doco I saw. I was speechless when I saw it.

I found this quote interesting.

www.sundayherald.com...

After the surrender of Konduz, the Taliban prisoners were then taken to a fort at Qaala Zeini, almost halfway between Mazar-i-Sharif and Sheberghan Prison. This is where the story of the massacre begins.

From Qaalia Zeini the Taliban prisoners were loaded onto containers for the last leg of their journey to Sheberghan Prison. Less than half would complete the hot, dusty trek.

Amir Jhan was a local commander who negotiated the surrender. He says he counted 8000 men leaving, but only 3015 arriving. 'Among these 3015,' he says to camera, 'are local Pashtun people from Konduz, Sheberghan, Balkh and Mazar, and many of these aren't even the original people I handed over.'

[SNIP]
. . .
Andrew McEntee, a former chairman of Amnesty International and a respected human rights lawyer, believes war crimes were committed. He said the confessions and filmed evidence of mass graves made it imperative that an international investigation be launched immediately. He also said that a team of forensic pathologists should be dispatched to investigate.


Names, places, numbers. Calls for INTERNATIONAL investigations. Hmmm, must be BS, right? right. . .?

C'mon people this is ATS, Above Top Secret. Not, Americans Taking Sides.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 09:03 AM
link   


You have voted twitchy for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Very Well Said Mister!


But, how can they be racist, if Islam is not a Race, but a Religion?

That always puzzles me...

And to all Islamo-Phobics I have one thing to say:

Allah Still Loves You!

[edit on 9/9/06 by Souljah]



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 09:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by twitchy

It may dissapoint, even anger, some of you to learn that most people, (Jews, Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese, French, etc.) are ordinary every day people, we all eat, sleep, poop
[edit on 9-9-2006 by twitchy]


well spoken, im giving you a vote as well. if anyone assumes im a muslim because i agree with twitchy, i just want to add im a white american with blonde hair and blue eyes. im just not blinded by hate or racism.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 09:35 AM
link   
Link to Video

Step one view video.

Step two look for evidence of mass graves. By mass graves I think it is safe to assume at least 20 bodies would be present and more then likely they would be either side by side or laying over each other.

You will find some pictures of a view fully clothed bodies intact meaning the bodies have not decomposed. That Makes a person go Hmm.

Then at 720 they show what appears to be a human skull (top Half) decomposed with teeth showing which are extremely large for a normal human, that also makes one go hmmm

Same skull is shown at 830 [on a Monitor] with object in background that you cannot determine what it is yet it is extremely large yet the teeth stand out like a sore thumb. What was this the head of Bigfoot? My guess is it was not human. Hmmm could that be more deception????

Ok then during the film note the lack of full bodies that are decomposed as they should be. The only thing they show is one or two bones again even those bones appear rather large to be human although I will concede those could be the real mccoy.

Now I ask you where are the pictures of these mass graves? Sorry just a few bodies and bones will not fill even the minimum burden of proof required to prove this really happened.

OK to make it easier for everyone to view the suspect teeth I uploaded the images.




Note the shadows and size. You have all seen x rays of your teeth I assume.

Do a Google of images on Google of dental x rays and skulls you will see what I mean.

Now for the 2nd image. Look at the monitor.



What do you see in the background? What ever it is it is extremely big as are the teeth again note the shadow to the left extremely large for a human skull if you ask me.

I did not do a screen shot of the two bones they showed as alledged evidence but you can find them in the video and after viewing the one or two bones ask yourself where are the rest? Surely if there are as many bodies in mass graves as they claim they would have piles of bones not just a few which again makes me go hmmmm.

Here is a close up of full sized human dentures close up for comparison




[edit on 9/9/2006 by shots]



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 10:30 AM
link   
CNN story of the same can be found here





The discovery of numerous mass graves, filled with bones and skulls, raises questions about exactly what happened to prisoners after they were captured last November in the northern city of Konduz by the U.S.-backed forces of Northern Alliance Gen. Adbul Rashid Dostum.


[....]

"We don't know how many people died," one prisoner said. "We know that we were about 12,000 people, and now there is only 4,000 or 3,500. We don't know where are the other people."
[....]

The ground around Mazar-e-Sharif offers abundant evidence of mass death. In May, investigators with the Boston, Massachusetts-based group Physicians for Human Rights examined a grave in Dasht-e-Leili and said hundreds of victims had been dumped there.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Note the picture shown on the link it has one bone and one skull yet the article again claims not 8000 as other articles but 12,000. The article also again claims the graves have hundreds of bodies in them.


Again I ask why the huge discrepancies in the numbers and where are the pictures of these alleged mass graves? They have had over four years to produce them according to the CNN article surely if they had them they could have produced them by now. Yet another good reason for doubt as to the allegations if you ask me.



[edit on 9/9/2006 by shots]



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by 7Pan7cho7

As far as the alleged killing here, I do have to say that it is a war, and there are no rules concerning killing the enemy. I am totally against this war and believe the US never should've went to Iraq, but we are there, so we just have to sit it out and see what happens.


Pancho


This is about the war in Afghanistan. Thought you might not have noticed?


I knew that, but you can't say that the war in Afghanistan didn't lead to the war in Iraq. And besides, it doesn't matter which war one happens to be in, it is still a war. Afghanistan, Iraq, same difference. What they both equal is a country we should never have been in.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 01:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by shots

[snip]

Again I ask why the huge discrepancies in the numbers and where are the pictures of these alleged mass graves? They have had over four years to produce them according to the CNN article surely if they had them they could have produced them by now. Yet another good reason for doubt as to the allegations if you ask me.



Or, the discrepancies could be purposeful disinformation to discredit the story. Yes, they have had four years to uncover these, to show whether they exist or not, why haven't they? And who, exactly are "they"?

Wouldn't the U.S. admin. want to refute the story? Wouldn't the best way be, to go there with an international group to investigate? Why aren't they putting things like this, to bed? Why should you expect to see masses of bodies, if they're buried underground?



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 01:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by Majic
If any member can substantiate these claims, I promise (this time as a member of the senior staff) to make it worthwhile.


Roughly translated - We "the staff" will simply inundate you with all sorts of points and kudos if you can conclusively prove something bad about the USA.

How about an equal reward if someone can conclusively disprove it huh ?



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 01:46 AM
link   
Proving A Negative


Originally posted by Retseh
How about an equal reward if someone can conclusively disprove it huh ?

Actually, that would be an impressive feat worthy of admiration if someone could pull it off.


But as a general rule of thumb regarding criminal allegations, the burden of proof is on the um, allegator, to make the case.

Unless I missed something, all the sources listed so far have been based on the claims of Jamie Doran and a handful of alleged witnesses, even though many additional groups have jumped on board with them.

Much time has passed since those claims were first made.

Have there been any significant developments since? Has anyone else been able to investigate these charges?

Certainly other major nations or groups not affiliated with the U.S. or U.N. would be interested in further exploring such serious accusations -- for propaganda purposes if nothing else.


How hard can it be to produce a large number of bodies at a mass grave as evidence?

If I've overlooked something obvious, please let me know.

I just want to know whether this really happened, and whether it happened the way these witnesses claim it did.

Only then can I know what an appropriate response should be.

I think that's a reasonable way to approach cases like this.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 08:42 AM
link   

Originally posted by fingapointa
Why should you expect to see masses of bodies, if they're buried underground?


The answer to that is simple. We have this group of Human rights Activists (cough) who claim they know where the graves are and also claim they have seen them yet none of the stories have indicated they have taken anyone to those so called grave sites thats why. Surely if they do exist it would take only a day or so if that to prove their point and I want to know what this is not the case? Again my guess is this whole thing is nothing but allegations and propaganda to try and make the US look bad.

As Majic mentioned the burden of proof is not on the US it is upon those that made the allegations in the first place.

Use some common sense here; if you were the US would you waste your time and resources to look for something that allegedly exists while you are in the process of trying to bring the area back to normal after a war?

I also recall reading in one the accounts that the US already have claimed these allegations were unfounded.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 12:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by shots
We have this group of Human rights Activists (cough) who claim they know where the graves are and also claim they have seen them yet none of the stories have indicated they have taken anyone to those so called grave sites thats why.

So it is only Human Rights Activists? That's odd, CNN mentioned UN Investigators' findings had confirmed thier 'claims'.


Source
"We don't know how many people died," one prisoner said. "We know that we were about 12,000 people, and now there is only 4,000 or 3,500. We don't know where are the other people."

U.N. investigators hope to unlock the mystery, and outside Mazar-e-Sharif, they are standing watch over a patch of desert where as many as 1,000 Taliban fighters may be buried.

Initial findings appear to support the contention of human-rights groups -- that the men were suffocated in shipping containers, then dumped.

It's my understanding however that the accusations are being made against Afghan Forces officially, those under Gen. Adbul Rashid Dostum who has stated that US forces were not present during the incident in question.

There are three sites currently being investigated..
The Graves Are Real, it's the cause, circumstance and those responsible only that remain in question.
The Tableban tends to take the blame in Western Led investigations, but as I posted above, Gen. Adbul Rashid Dostum's US backed forces is not the Taleban, and they rarely operate outside of the control and direction of Coalition Forces. The involvement, presence or complicity of this by of US Special Forces is the big if here. Their involvement has of course been categorically denied, however there is no doubt that US Forces were aware of these allegations and aware of the graves. Some witnesses suggest far worse an involvement than complicity however.


Source
According to Doran, of the approximately 8,000 Taliban prisoners taken after the fall of Kunduz in late November 2001 to Gen. Rashid Dostum, around 5,000 are unaccounted for. He says he's filmed eyewitnesses testifying that many of those prisoners suffocated in the metal containers used to transport them between Qala-I-Zeini fortress and Sherberghan prison, and that Northern Alliance troops fired into the containers, killing and wounding other prisoners. One witness claims that an American officer ordered the bodies dumped in the desert of Dasht-I-Leili, and that living people were taken there as well and executed. Furthermore, Doran says he has witnesses claiming to have seen American special-forces soldiers torturing prisoners who made it to Sherberghan.



Source
The US special forces running the prison watched the bodies being unloaded. They instructed Dostum's men to "get rid of them before satellite pictures can be taken". Doran interviewed a Northern Alliance soldier guarding the prison. "I was a witness when an American soldier broke one prisoner's neck. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them." Another soldier alleged: "They took the prisoners outside and beat them up, and then returned them to the prison. But sometimes they were never returned, and they disappeared."

Many of the survivors were loaded back in the containers with the corpses, then driven to a place in the desert called Dasht-i-Leili. In the presence of up to 40 US special forces, the living and the dead were dumped into ditches. Anyone who moved was shot. The German newspaper Die Zeit investigated the claims and concluded that: "No one doubted that the Americans had taken part. Even at higher levels there are no doubts on this issue." The US group Physicians for Human Rights visited the places identified by Doran's witnesses and found they "all... contained human remains consistent with their designation as possible grave sites".

"There are questions for the Americans to answer. I believe there is clear evidence the Americans were there.”
-Andrew McEntee, former head of Amnesty International
www.amptoons.com...


The CFR has this memorandum posted...
Source
Physicians for Human Rights researchers made an even more disturbing finding within a few miles of Shebarghan Prison: a large patch of disturbed earth with remains of bodies on the surface suggesting a mass grave site. The United Nations Human Rights Commission conducted a preliminary investigation of the site, located at Dasht-e Leili in April 2002. Working with a forensic expert, seconded by PHR, the Commission investigators uncovered fifteen bodies who appeared to have been smothered, in a small test trench dug at the site. In late August, Newsweek magazine released a special report on the issue of war crimes in Afghanistan about how negotiations among the U.S. special forces, the Northern Alliance, and captured Taliban combatants after the fall of Kunduz should have led to the release of most of them, but instead resulted in the death of hundreds. Reportedly Northern Alliance forces under the command of General Dostum packed the Taliban combatants into airless and waterless containers for days. Newsweek obtained testimonial evidence that the drivers of the container trucks were prevented from providing ventilation or water to the captives.

It was Dostum’s forces who were responsible for the deaths of the surrendered combatants, but the United States definitely bears some responsibility for atrocities committed by its partners in Afghanistan. The U.S. did not delegate to the Northern Alliance the task of winning the war against the Taliban – a task the Afghan forces could never have accomplished. It should not have delegated the task of transporting and detaining defeated enemy fighters, particularly given the Northern Alliance’s known record of committing war crimes against both civilians and surrendered combatants throughout years of civil war in Afghanistan.

The Bush Administration’s view, as near as I can determine, is that it had no responsibility for the treatment of captured prisoners because it was not the detaining power in Afghanistan, nor did it have command and control over Northern Alliance forces. That argument is unpersuasive, given the fact that of American military superiority in Afghanistan, and those forces’ possession of the material resources to attend to the wellbeing of POW’s captured in military operations involving Americans. Moreover, U.S. special forces and intelligence agents certainly knew of the life-threatening conditions at Shebarghan Prison; they interrogated the prisoners there, picking out al Queda suspects for relocation and further questioning at Guatanamo Bay. (Though conditions are not inhumane at Guatanamo, the indefinite detention of prisoners of war after cessation of hostilities is a dangerous precedent and an approach to avoid in a future war in Iraq.)

The practical implication of this stance is that the U.S. Government did not respond to appeals by Physicians for Human Rights to take responsibility for those detained in life-threatening conditions at Sherbaghan Prison. Instead, they consistently claimed that the prisoners’ welfare was the responsibility of the barely functioning Afghan government. Similarly, the Defense Department, when queried about the reports of possible war crimes by America’s partners in Afghanistan, professed ignorance of the allegations, saying that American personnel in the area were not involved and knew nothing of the incident. There was no investigation of the killing of surrendered combatants, to our knowledge, and to this day the mass grave site remains unguarded.

'Officially', who the hell knows if US troops were complicit or even perhaps responsible, we sure as hell won't investigate it and so far our only real official response has been calling for those who would be responsible to literally investigate themselves. While you guys argue about whether or not that picture is of a human skull, you forget one basic principle here, you weren't there. The graves are there, according to doctors who know what a human skull looks like, they are real, and the people that were there, the actual witnesses, said US forces were there as well. IF they were present, then the bottom line is at least complicity.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 01:57 PM
link   
twitchy, I agree with virtually all of your points, but I do think you are missing my most important point. Where are these graves and where are the pictures? They made the claims and I say put up or shut up simple as that. Innocent until proven guilty as they say ya know.

We have several accounts with large discrepancies in the numbers also, that too bothers me. Were there 8000 12000 or 5000 involved? those figures may not bother many but they do me because most and Human rights activists are known to exaggerate greatly and that is wrong.

I also know I was not there and my point about the skull was simply an observation I made since too me it does not appear to be that of a human and I also stated I was not sure.

As for the UN, well I honestly do not think they do their job at all, so who knows if they are just blowing smoke when then claim they are investigating alleged grave sites. (Rember the Food for oil program with Saddam they claimed they were not involved yet they were cough cough yeah right)

It would appear to me they could easy prove it by furnishing pictures of the graves sites, but just as in the case of the activists they have not furnished one bit of proof at all, why is that?

As I stated earlier I think they are blowing smoke mainly the activists, they are the ones who claim to have seen the graves not the UN. One can only assume they were too stupid to take pictures of the sites or just one site where hundreds of bodies can be seen, that certainly would get things rolling, but no they did not do that and we keep going around in circles as if stuck on a merry go round.


Stand by while I report a fire.

Fire Department may I help you.

Me: Yes I would like to report a fire.

Fire department. Where is it sir?

Me In the forest.

Fire department which forest

Me:the one I saw

Fire Dept: Where is it sir

Me: I told you in the forest and I even took pictures as proof.

Fire Dept Can we see the picutres please, so we can locate it????

me: Dead silence for four years while fire department looks (only if it were true and I had called in and reported a false alarm I would now be siting in Jail or at least paid a good fine for sure.)

You could very easily change the above from reporting a fire to a mass killing

You get my point I am sure.



[edit on 9/10/2006 by shots]



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 02:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by shots
Where are these graves and where are the pictures?

In short, Sherberghan, Mazar-I-Sharif, and Bamiyan, and as to the pictures, did you see this link?
www.phrusa.org...
That is one of several sites that aren't being investigated. I do understand and aknowledge your point of Human Rights organizations being prone to hyperbole, however there's a huge difference between 'blowing smoke' and digging up very real rotting corpses, but the reality is that the exsistance of the mass graves are no longer in question. They're there, and while I get your point, your point is rather moot. There are recent mass graves in Northern Afghanistan, period.
As to the numbers, only God and a few people that hold a vested interest know how many people were suffocated and or shot for sure. If a single one of them was intentionally suffocated or shot after they surrendered, then that is a war crime. If there are indeed hundreds or thousands of them, then that is an atrocity which so far has yet to be investigated conclusively.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 02:49 PM
link   
Crimes Of War


Originally posted by twitchy
As to the numbers, only God and a few people that hold a vested interest know how many people were suffocated and or shot for sure. If a single one of them was intentionally suffocated or shot after they surrendered, then that is a war crime. If there are indeed hundreds or thousands of them, then that is an atrocity which so far has yet to be investigated conclusively.

I agree wholeheartedly.

One of the things that makes cases like this so frustrating is that so much unreliable information comes from war zones that the truth itself ends up being buried in a mass grave covered by lies.

There are so many credibility problems on the part of virtually everyone involved that it can be difficult to know what's real and what's propaganda.

I can't accept claims like these at face value without more evidence, but I also can't accept official dismissals either, because official credibility has been seriously eroded by its own shameful pattern of lies.

War crimes are being committed, and they are being covered up.

Based on what I've seen, I don't think there's enough evidence to form a solid opinion about this case. But I think there IS enough information to be very suspicious, and I would feel much more comfortable if there were a full-blown followup investigation of these claims, preferably by multiple groups and governments to reduce the probability of an official whitewashing.

I see no reason whatsoever why these sites shouldn't be opened to international inspections and thoroughly examined by forensics experts.

If there are indeed hundreds or thousands of bodies buried in these graves, then somebody needs to explain why.

And it better be good.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 03:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by AscendedMaster
This is just one of many stories out there. Atrocities happen in Iraq EVERYDAY. They will stop when Americans leave. Its pretty simple.


Its pretty simple that you know nothing about the middle east and its culture.

Atrocities, brutality, abuse, and cruelty were pretty much the norm before the US or even Saddam showed up on the scene.

It will continue LONG after the west leaves the middle east.

Try actually reading a bit of cultural history of the middle east before you make these statements. Brutality is quite acceptable over there.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join