The Absolute Arrogance of Christianity!

I personally feel that Christians are, on the whole, quite arrogant. Most of them feel they are better than others...they are going to be "saved" while everyone else is doomed to eternal damnation. Awfully egocentric...no?? And the conspiracy here is that for the most part, Christianity is a cult....that uses all methods used worldwide by various cults....brainwashing, guilt, shame, promises that if you behave a certain way you will get rewards, if your family and friends don't agree with what we are teaching maybe you should stop spending time with them, etc. etc. etc......typical cult behavior!!

Here is some interesting info I found from an African History and Culture site. I think it's topical because many "Christians" have spent many years trying to convert everyone in Africa to Christianity....just like was done to Native Americans here in the United States. In America...the native peoples were slaughtered if they were not willing to convert...not very Christian I don't think.

Man has found other ways to destroy massive amounts of the population of Africa.....but of course, there are many Christians that feel the need to go there and convert the savages that are left (as anyone that is a pagan is called a savage by many Christians).

I have seen all kinds of people try to take new ideas and interpretations, fit them into the Judeo-Christian Bible stories, and feel that they can now use the Bible differently, that they have somehow validated the bible with some higher truth.

But there is a simple test. A pendulum does not swing from one extreme and drop dead center (balance). People were conditioned in an extreme way with the Christian bible together with enshrined poor characteristics of the slave masters who passed it on to them. The two have become a package. As hard as people try, they cannot break the two apart while holding tight to the Bible. It is just not possible.

They will have to be courageous enough to allow their selves (the pendulum) to swing freely away from the Bible, to the other side, that they were debarred from (Black African History and Culture). If they can do that honestly they will discover the balance within themselves and not books.

source: www.rastaspeaks.com...

I like the last line: "discover the balance within themselves." That's what EVERYONE needs. To find the God within!! What we don't need are arrogant, Bible thumpers trying to tell us how to live and trying to tell us what the Bible means and that we should use the Bible as a How To Book. This is true of ALL cultures...not just Black African...I just use that as an example!

I read the Bible. I don't need any of you telling me what it says and means. I have figured that out for myself!!


[edit on 5-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Popular Christianity certainly has served to stultify the teachings of Christ and other biblical prophets of antiquity. It wouldn't be unfair nor inaccurate to view modern Christianity as a morbid historical outgrowth of early Roman Imperialism.

It is true that no epoch in human history shows so starkly, man's inherent desire to know God and their need for Divine assurance, as is evidenced by the grotesqueries committed by those countries who adopted Christendom as a means to passify the embattled and embittered mind of men and convert them rank and file in order to satisfy the imperialistic necessities peculiar to the mentality of world conquest.

The fragile truth concealed within the tenets and symbols of Christianty, as spoken by Christ and other early exponents has been cruelly compromitted by ignorance and ethical ineptitude. In other instances the doctrine was purposefully withheld and misdirected in an attempt to contain the ecstatic outpouring of truth as it was discovered by other contemporaneous schools during the formative years of the church. i.e. The Gnostics, The Essenes, The Montanists, etc.

It would be wrong to castigate popular Christianity in its entirety, because a great many souls exist that have painfully navigated their way through the dogmatic locks and sacerdotal channels of the church to reach the open sea of Truth and bask in the glorious Sun of mankinds Divine birthright, which is the pursuit and nurture of the Christ within. May many more find their way free.


edit:punctuation

[edit on 5-9-2006 by lucum per lucerna]

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
...the native peoples were slaughtered if they were not willing to convert...not very Christian I don't think.

It seems that you do. And I would add that while modern Christains don't do the above, many of the Islamic faith do; so why not attack them?

-- Boat

the thing that bothers me is here in america everyone just just assumes you believe in god and they act all shocked and mortified when you tell them you dont. religion is a BELIEF. and i dont believe in it, il be the first one at the church to ask for forgiveness for my sins when someone, someday proves to me there is a god. until then, i dont believe, and i refuse to believe in something without any kind of proof.

Originally posted by charliegrs
the thing that bothers me is here in america everyone just just assumes you believe in god and they act all shocked and mortified when you tell them you dont. religion is a BELIEF. and i dont believe in it, il be the first one at the church to ask for forgiveness for my sins when someone, someday proves to me there is a god. until then, i dont believe, and i refuse to believe in something without any kind of proof.

I don't have any use for religion myself. I simply believe the truth. Jesus is the prophesied Messiah.

You want proof that there is a God. No problem. There's plenty of proof.

Here's the gig Spiff, you can prove there is a God if you want to but YOU have to seek the proof. If you seek him with all your heart, you will find him, if not, you won't. That won't change the truth of his existence.

Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I personally feel that Christians are, on the whole, quite arrogant.

Says you quite arrogantly.

Most of them feel they are better than others...

I cant speak for all Christians but for many i know self included in no way consider ourselves better than anybody.

they are going to be "saved" while everyone else is doomed to eternal damnation. Awfully egocentric...no??

Egocentric??? surely you could just as easily look at it as caring for you,say for instance your not a homosexual and a man comes on to you instead of getting offended just say "thanks but i`m not that way inclined.Similar with Christians they might tell you about Christ because they care because they know its in your best interests.But instead of being offended just say "thanks but no thank you" or people may start thinking or accusing you of being a Christianaphob.

I read the Bible. I don't need any of you telling me what it says and means. I have figured that out for myself!!

Cool,but why then after you have read it and figured it all out(which i don't believe)are you caring on preaching like you want Christian to stop?

Boatphone
A well know Aussie comedian Dave Hughes says in his act "people say to me why don't you make fun of Muslims the way you make fun of Christians and i tell them because they are mental and they will kill you for it"

There is an amount of truth to that statement EB seems to be like minded.
Its what some people do prey on the harmless the misconception is Christ is not weak there is nothing stronger.

Sun Matrix
Spot on,charliers your the only one who can get your proof don`t expect someone else to provide it for you because it wont happen.

You know, these types of threads just keep coming. I ask you, what is the point? What is this never ending need to spread your opinions on something you have made yourself clear on previously?

Do you think you're converting people of faith, or warning those who are not practicing one, or just looking for a rah rah on your own personal club of anti-christianity people? I really don't get it, it seems moot.

ATS is an intelligent strong minded community. No one is being converted here. You are entitled to your beliefs of course, but they are not shared by all and in my opinion these threads tend to only inspire derisiveness. Can we give it a rest?

Some of us are actually intelligent enough to see through the pitfalls of our beliefs and delve deeper into our faiths with an open mind. Others seem to have an almost obsessive need to try and "enlighten" us on the errors of our ways, but in all honestly, those who do are the ones who have closed their minds. (As evidenced by the blanket condemnation of all groups under a single heading when there are vast differences in the practices of things such as "Christianity", just as there are vast differences in religions such as Islam (from truly devout good people to extremists). These types of threads leave no room for that diversity and so I really wonder what if anything one hopes to accomplish beyond the prolific debate that has definately been discussed till the cows come home already on ATS. In addition, these types of commentaries contain nothing new under the sun and change nothing for the future. I just don't get it.

Don't let them intimidate you with their outdated theories...

Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs. Following a star would lead you in circles. The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin. That idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses.

Scholars have known all this for more than 200 years but priestcraft is a highly profitable business and finances an industry of deceit to keep the show on the road. "Jesus better documented than any other ancient figure" ? Don't believe a word of it. Unlike the mythical Jesus, a real historical figure like Julius Caesar has a mass of mutually supporting evidence.

The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Christian savagery – of hundreds of millions of lives brutalised and truncated, sacrificed to war, torture, pogrom, burning, pestilence and plague – is incalculable.

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history.

Nazareth did not exist in the 1st century AD – the area was a burial ground of rock-cut tombs. Following a star would lead you in circles. The 12 disciples are as fictitious as their master, invented to legitimise the claims of the early churches. The original Mary was not a virgin. That idea was borrowed from pagan goddesses.

Right on. Lots of things were invented to create the new religion which was used as a political tool to go after the Jews.....and Pagans and anyone else that would not convert to the new religion, or politics or business...however you want to look at it.

The cost to humanity of fifteen centuries of Christian savagery – of hundreds of millions of lives brutalised and truncated, sacrificed to war, torture, pogrom, burning, pestilence and plague – is incalculable.

Christianity is the worst disaster in human history.

Right on again! Think I need to give you a WATS!!

Christianity tells us to reach heaven it must be achieved through Jesus. So take the most kind and friendly person who does not believe in God or Jesus or any faith at all, he/she would go straight to hell, thats the impression Christianity has given me. Fearmongering at its best!

Christianity is an Organized Religion.
Organized Religion = Pseudo-Spiritual Political Control
Pseudo-Spiritual Political Control = Manipulation
Manipulation = Selfishness + Fear
Manipulation /Selfishness + Fear = Man

Conclusion: Christianity, like all organized religion, is an invention of Man to politically manipulate his brothers while appealing to his spiritual nature and fear of the unknown.

GPS777

Christianaphobia.
Well done.
FYI: I will be plagiarizing this term in the future.


And to all the Christian-haters...
This is a sincere question...not rhetorical:

What do you hope to achieve?

Are you seeking to convert Christians away from the church?
Are you seeking to reform the current church?

Excitable, you spend a lot of time on these boards railing against the Christian faith. If you could write the script for the next ten years of the Christian faith, what would it look like?

I'm really trying to find your point, but I'm dangerously close to believing that your college sweetheart joined a convent or something. Help me out...

Are you seeking to convert Christians away from the church?
Are you seeking to reform the current church?

Excitable, you spend a lot of time on these boards railing against the Christian faith. If you could write the script for the next ten years of the Christian faith, what would it look like?

I'm really trying to find your point, but I'm dangerously close to believing that your college sweetheart joined a convent or something. Help me out...

Not seeking to convert anyone from anything. People can take my thoughts and do whatever they want with them.
Not seeking to reform anything. I don't believe in religion. I believe in God.

If I had anything to do with the Christian faith it wouldn't exist. Just as Jesus would do the same if he was alive. What would it look like? It just wouldn't be.

What is my motive? When I see a thread on here called "The Absolute Power of Christianity" I have to laugh....and then I felt the need to start my own with a similar name, but with a more proper name. What is this "power" Christianity supposedly has? Honestly...what? It has the power to lie, brainwash, manipulate, take 10% of the follower's money so the leaders of various Christian religions can live in mansions and drive Bentley's, the power to make people feel guilty, feel shame, feel that they can't just live their lives and enjoy it without feeling like they are doing something wrong, etc. etc. etc. ......should I go on??

Relentless is sick of this kind of thread. Well.....why don't you count up the amount of threads that PUSH Christianity on this forum and the amount that are against Christianity. I bet there are more that are trying to PUSH Christianity on this forum. I guess I'm just trying maintain some balance relentless....that's all.

Since Christianity began....Christians have been pushing it on others. Killing whole groups of peoples who are not willing to convert or just killing them because they aren't Christian...they also use the Bible as their excuse....since genocide is encouraged in the OT! Christians are responsible for more murders and genocides than any other organization in the history of the world. That's a fact...not an opinion!

Some sharp politicians back in the early ADs had a great plan...create a Messiah and name a new religion after him. That way, they had a reason to kill off everyone else that didn't follow them. They could kill off the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans...etc.etc.etc.......Why do you think Hitler styled himself after Christians?...He said he was a Christian...he probably wasn't, but he behaved like one.

Christians, on the whole, today are not going around killing people, but, they quote the Bible so often in the course of an argument or conversation, that they make people want to jab the closest sharp object into their own heart rather than continue to listen to the same old same old.........

Are any of you Christians able to have a discussion or argument without using quotes from the Bible?



[edit on 6-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

One of the worst things to befall Christianity was the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Everything changed for the worse...not necessarily for Christianity but for people in general. Instead of the truth being propagated by the Church, political-spiritual fascism began after 325 A.D.

Both Christianity and Islam have been hijacked by those people who seek to use the human quality of hope and belief as a tool of personal advancement. All religions claim to be the true faith and everyone else are unbelievers and therefore lost and eternally damned. To save them from themselves, the unbelievers must be converted, by force if neccessary. Blah, Blah, Blah

Christianity has been no worse or better for humanity than any other major religious movement of the latest cycle of human civilization. It is largely a geopolitical entity now and has forsaken the spiritual message of its founder. Same with Islam. Most of the honor killings of women have nothing to do with Islam but rather ancient tribal ways of the region.

I believe there is a God/Creator. None of our puny minds can ever hope to comprehend the will of the Creator. You certainly can't define the Creator's purpose for us with a few words in book.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If I had anything to do with the Christian faith it wouldn't exist. Just as Jesus would do the same if he was alive.

I'm not sure what exactly you're basing that on...Jesus pretty much IS the Christian faith. I'm guessing what you are referring to is the organized church as an institution. Please don't confuse the two. The Christian faith and the organized church are two different things.

It has the power to lie, brainwash, manipulate, take 10% of the follower's money so the leaders of various Christian religions can live in mansions and drive Bentley's, the power to make people feel guilty, feel shame, feel that they can't just live their lives and enjoy it without feeling like they are doing something wrong, etc. etc. etc. ......should I go on??

Yeah. You should go on.
It has the power to give people a community. It has the power to give people a purpose. It has the power to save relationships. It has the power to release people from their guilt and shame. Etc. etc.

This is a perfect example of why you have no credibility, Excitable.
I'm not saying that the Christian church is faultless...for me to ignore the blemishes on the face of the church would be as monumentally ignorant as you ignoring the benefits of it. You are looking at a zebra and only seeing black. That kind of analysis is...well...it's not really analysis at all, is it?

Christians are responsible for more murders and genocides than any other organization in the history of the world. That's a fact...not an opinion!

I've never murdered anyone.
That's a fact...not an opinion.

Some sharp politicians back in the early ADs had a great plan...create a Messiah and name a new religion after him. That way, they had a reason to kill off everyone else that didn't follow them.

No. Some sharp politician created an ARMY. That way, they had the means to kill off everyone else. If they recruited soldiers by selling Christianity the way you are describing it now...that is, a completely bastardized and innacurate version...then that says something about them, not about the Christian faith.

Are any of you Christians able to have a discussion or argument without using quotes from the Bible?

Stop bastardizing the message of the Christian faith and no one will have to.
Flaming the message of a faith then demanding that its followers not respond with doctrine is like me stating that 2+2=5 and asking you to disprove me without bringing up that stupid gosh darn math stuff!

It has the power to give people a community. It has the power to give people a purpose. It has the power to save relationships. It has the power to release people from their guilt and shame. Etc. etc.

Really? Please explain...preferrably without quoting any passages from the Bible. I'm especially interested in how a religion can save relationships and release them from guilt and shame. Especially when the religion is based on wanting its members to feel guilt and shame every day they live.

How does it save relationships? By telling people they aren't allowed to divorce? That is saving a relationship?

I'm very interested in your responses.....thanks!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
One of the worst things to befall Christianity was the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. ..not necessarily for Christianity but for people in general. Instead of the truth being propagated by the Church, political-spiritual fascism began after 325 A.D.

I agree with this. The new Roman church that melded the early Christianity or more accurately Paulism with Paganism was both a boon to Christianity and a bane at the same time I think.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
One of the worst things to befall Christianity was the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Everything changed for the worse...not necessarily for Christianity but for people in general. Instead of the truth being propagated by the Church, political-spiritual fascism began after 325 A.D.

This is a very good point. People, like Excitable, tend to forget that it is not Christianity that is responsible for the atrocities noted in this topic but Catholicism which was born from that Council. Before then the bulk of violence involving Christians was caused by Pagan and Jewish people threatened by early Christianity.
The problem was that when Catholics gained numbers and the political power of Rome it chose to take out revenge not only on these groups, but other Christians who happened to follow the books or teachings the Council chose to exclude from the Bible! If they would have set a tone of peace perhaps not all of those horrific atrocitiies would have occurred. Hell if they would have just tolerated the other Christian sects there wouldnt have been nearly as many issues. But I mean why would they do that? It's not like Jesus preached tolerance or anything...

It is important to distinguish between the different forms of Christianity. Despite the efforts of The Vatican many varied sects have sprouted from the Christian faith. Prior to the Council there were Jewish, Atheist, Gnostic, and Divinity sects of Christianity. Since then despite the sometimes bloody efforts of Catholicism we have seen Lutherans, Protestants, Unitarian Universalist, Seventh-Day Adventists, and Mormons among other other splinter groups. I personally was raised Catholic and went through the confirmation classes up until the last month. I have since switched to Unitarian Universalism. They are both born from and are considered sects of the same faith but are as different as Islam and Buddhism in many respects.

What I'm interested in knowing is what sect of Christianity the ardently pro-Christianity crowd of this topic belong to. As I stated earlier I'm a UU and find the crimes of Catholicism appaling and hypocritical, yet acknowledge that not all Christianity is bad and that just because the Catholics got their own City-State doesn't mean they represent the entire faith.

And, no offense to those catholics who don't fit this description; I know not all do, in my own experience I have found the Catholics to be the most intolerant of difference; After I made my switch people I went to confirmation classes with and were friends with for quite some time gave me crap about it. Among other things I was called a "Cult following heretic"

In closing remember; A City-State does not the representative of every sect of the Christian faith make. And what sect of Christianity is everyone here? And what do the Non-Christians in this topic consider themselves?

And what do the Non-Christians in this topic consider themselves?

I consider myself a human being.....and I believe in God. I don't believe in 2 gods: Jesus and God. I believe in the one true God. Pagans believe in more than one god....not that there is anything wrong with that. Some of my best friends are Pagans, i.e. Native Americans........wonderful people!