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Is America military supremacy in danger?

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posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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Is America politically demoralized with the war on terror and results of what it looks like a never ending war in Iraq?

Does the military and civilian casualties in Iraq showing how flawed our strategy in the Middle East is.

Who gives the right to any nation in the world to take the incredible and impossible task of reshaping the make over of an entire nation while hiding behind the ideology of A war on terror.

Does this task have a purpose?

I feel that our nation political leaders have embarked in an impossible task base on ideologies and political agendas that will never be successfully achieved without the death of many.




posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 10:50 PM
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I think it shows how vulnerable a military offensive can be, when your fighting for control of a country, rather than to cease the tyranny on citizens.
If the citizens agreed with a free Iraq, they wouldnt allow insurgents to be running free and bombing as they please.

Granted, A citizen doesnt have a chance against a armed group of militia,
But when an entire country is supposldy chasing freedom and a democracy.. you'd think there'd be enough of them to band together, root out insurgents to the occupiers andplay there part.

The only option left for Iraqi's is to pack up, live in a slum outside of any iraqi city.. and let the americans totally anhiliate anyone left...



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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The war on Iraq does have a purpose, not that of bringing democracy to the Middle East. As Maliki said ''Democracy has a different meaning to different people''. We [I'm not a US citizen, though a Westerner] cannot force other countries to implement a democratic system equal to that of us.

A very crucial point the Americans forgot is the difference between cultures. To call a small example, several months ago I watched a documentary film on TV showing the US military training program in Iraq, forcing Muslims to shave off their beards/moustaches. It's against the Quran not to wear a beard/moustache. The US officers didn't understand they were operating in a totally different culture from theirs, and thus didn't gain any respect from the locals. It rather had the opposite effect, it made the community in general very angry, not really a proper fundament to build democracy on.

Lately, I heard a Dutch regiment going to the Helmand/Uruzgan area in Southern Afghanistan, the most dangerous part of Afghanistan. Before leaving they all had to follow a cultural course to understand the Afghans and to get familiar with threatening them in a reasonable way.

Personally I think the Operation Iraqi Freedom is doomed to fail, and in the end the US will have to leave a country in an even worse situation than Vietnam back in the 60s/70s and worse than the situation when Saddam was in power.

Though, the main cause for this war has been fulfilled: ensuring that Iraqi oil would be solely sold in Petro Dollars. Exactly why Iran is now being presented as the bad guy.

If you click on the link in my signature you'll be able to listen to a radio interview with the comptroller and a Republican on the current situation.

To give you a taste of the current situation:




• Sixty percent of our federal spending is now mandatory, primarily Medicare, Social Security, interest on the national debt, programs over which the budget process has no control.

• While the 2005 budget deficit was widely reported at $318 billion, on an operating basis as most companies report, the year's deficit was easily double that amount.

• We finance our deficits by borrowing -- and now 50 percent of our public debt is owned by foreigners.

• Interest on the national debt is expected to be about $200 billion this year, about the same as we spend on Medicare.

• We currently have a $46 trillion dollar liability for future promises of Medicare and Social Security, and the new drug bill will easily add another $8 trillion in promises.

• In the next 25 years, Medicare spending will grow at nearly five times the rate of economic growth.

• Every newborn arrives with an immediate debt of $156,000 -- fiscal child abuse!


Official figures.

Bush is really doing the right thing for the United States, though you should question yourself whether it is morally acceptable to solve problems in such a way. However, the situation is not looking good for the world. A collapse of the US empire wouldn't be solely catastrophic for the US. But the current policy of dealing with the Iraqi/Irani Euro Oil is only a way of delaying the coming collapse.

Some people will definitely say I am wrong, imagine whether a Roman would ever have thought their empire would collapse. In addition, do some proper research, or listen to the radio show in the thread of my signature and you understand how bad the situation actually is.



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 01:04 PM
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I agree, If we see the history of the US involve in the middle east we can pretty much see how the needs of the moment has switched from one goal to another one.

We most ask ourselves how hostilities against the US became so escalated since the Carter years.

Even back those political leaders knew that US was facing a crisis in the Middle East for becoming to involve with the politics in the area.

We are not just fighting a war on minds and harts anymore because it was never for the harts and minds of the people in the Middle East.

The hostilities now against our troops are not longer as part of the war against insurgency alone but also is very clear that the people in the region has never wanted any intervention by occupying forces in their lands.

Militarily US is a force to be recon but when it comes to the willingness of the people that we are dealing in the middle east all their might is no enough.


[edit on 6-9-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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US military supremacy is NOT in danger.

However the US military can be beaten if politics enters the mix.


[edit on 6-9-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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No, no supremacy as a military fighting force but the military superiority in Iraq seems to be rendered weak when it comes to dealings with the population, even when we know that is no their job to act as policeman and women.

This could affect our soldiers performance in another war in which the same scenarious are to be present.

This type of warfare could demoralize our troops and the people in the US that think is our troops and government jobs to keep the law and order in Iraq.

BTW I mean Carter no Clinton

[edit on 6-9-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 12:01 PM
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There is still not a single force that can field an army that can defeat the US army.

Even though small disorganized cells of guerillas in iraq can escape complete destruction, they still can't force the US army out of the country, or even restrict it to its own bases.

The US military is still utterly supreme, its the civilian administration behind it that is weak, and subject to politics. The only reason that the US army would leave Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else, is that the government decides that its not politically viable to stay there, not because the military itself had been defeated.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 01:02 PM
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That is my point Nygdan, we are having a problem at home, while the military are claiming that is not problem with the recruiting of new troops the problem is that they are having a difficult time keeping the troops in.

Bringing a shortage of trained combat war units to rotate the troops in Iraq. To me this brings the point that our military even with all its might and supremacy is becoming demoralized to the point that they do not want to stay in the service.

This war in Iraq and its possible ramifications could damage our military if we are face another war like the one in Iraq.

Plus American families are an essential when it comes to the decision of young people thinking about joining the military.

This adds to the American view of the war. How much this could affect our troops and their readiness to face another conflict any time soon.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 01:47 PM
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Supremacy waining? No, absolutly not. Another thing, here at my very popular American Legion post in Cocoa Beach, Florida it is hard to find any OIF vets who wouldn't go back. This includes wounded veterans. Some have spent more than a tour over there. Ready to fight for thier country anytime, anywhere. And all believe in thier mission, all believe they are helping the Iraqi people. And after meeting literaly hundreds of them, I can't find one who is a Bush basher - go figure. Are they right or wrong? Can't say, I'm behind a computer screen in a comfortable chair in a nice Airconditioned house. How about you? Where are you
"comanding" from Marg? Countless posts from you start off as an interesting topic, then boom, you get your Anti-Bush thing on lol.
Vance

Spelling

[edit on 7-9-2006 by vance]



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 03:53 PM
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Another Anti Administration thread from the good folks that brought you Bush Bashing.

Propaganda pure and simple.

A few hundred, even a few thousand insurgents equate to a country of millions being against our presence. What?
I guess if you want to follow that line of thinking, then anything rational will only confuse the issue.

Military Casualties? HMMM lets see.... Current tally is 2660 out of a Military force of over 1 million active duty military personnel. Probably not going to be over run there anytime in the near future.

However, facts and figures have never deterred or really effected this type of "hype" before, so there is no reason to think it will this time.

Semper



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 05:45 PM
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Well is not Bush bashing but real issues that is becoming a problem for our military forces in Iraq.

The article from where I got The idea from my thread tittle is from an issue from the Daily Bird after reading some of its very interesting articles.

I wish I could paste and copy but the article also has copyrights warning.



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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Well,folks, there is one of two things going on here.

(1)Our military supremacy is declining

or

(2) We were never as strong as we, the American public, have been led to believe.

It's either or, folks. I mean, come on...all of a sudden there are reports of as many as 12,000 Americn soldiers killed, not sure if I believe that figure, but nonetheless. Look, we are not only supposed to be a superpower but my most estimates a "superduper" power. Yet, we can't even fight a two front war?

Why not? It doesn't make sense to me. If we are as strong as we claim, we should be able to defeat the "guerilla" tactics of the insurgents. Or am I missing something? I mean, if i am, somebody please explain to me how a nation that is supposed to be the strongest military power to EVER exist cannot even wage a two front war. Cause I sure don't understand it.


It seems to me that people who think all is well militarily are in denial of the obvious. I mean, look, there's the argument that you can't really judge because we are not fighting a country but an ideology. Technically, that is correct. However, why hasn't the U.S secured the Iraqi border to keep the insurgents from pouring in from Syrian and Iran? We already know that is where the majority of them are coming from.

It all just doesn't make sense to me. Yes, I think we are either seeing a decline in America's military might or that "might" was just an apparition to begin with.

[edit on 7-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 10:26 PM
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Period Fatalities
Mar-03 65
Apr-03 74
May-03 37
Jun-03 30
Jul-03 48
Aug-03 35
Sep-03 31
Oct-03 44
Nov-03 82
Dec-03 40
Jan-04 47
Feb-04 20
Mar-04 52
Apr-04 135
May-04 80
Jun-04 42
Jul-04 54
Aug-04 66
Sep-04 80
Oct-04 63
Nov-04 137
Dec-04 72
Jan-05 107
Feb-05 58
Mar-05 35
Apr-05 52
May-05 80
Jun-05 78
Jul-05 54
Aug-05 85
Sep-05 49
Oct-05 96
Nov-05 84
Dec-05 68
Jan-06 62
Feb-06 55
Mar-06 31
Apr-06 76
May-06 69
Jun-06 61
Jul-06 43
Aug-06 67
Sep-06 20
Total 2664
icasualties.org...


Answer: Yes, your missing something.

Semper



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 03:01 AM
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Semper, you don't get it do you?

Every military super power needs to be backed up by a stable and strong financial fundament. Without such a fundament there's no way a country can maintain its position as military superpower. the Soviet Union is the perfect example of this.

Now you probably gonna tell me the US economy is strong, but you are wrong. Sorry to say, but I rather believe the neo cons and the Comptroller General than you. Click on the link in my signature to listen the radio interview.

The cost cuttings on the military budget is the first sign of a bigger thing to happen.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 06:00 AM
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Mdv2, either YOU don't get it, or you never had it.

I do not care about your radio broadcast, I would rather look at economic indicators from professional economists; not listen to all the sad little stories on here and everywhere about how "bad" it is.


Healthy signs for the economy
Nation's Business, April, 1987 by Roger Thompson

Healthy Signs For The Economy
The U.S. economy left the starting block with an unexpected burst of energy in January, causing many forecasters to raise slightly their estimates of how fast the economy will run this year.
~~~~~~~
State's Business Conditions Index points to healthy economy
~~~~~~~
On August 4, 2006, The Government Released New Jobs Figures – 113,000 Jobs Created In July. The economy has created more than 1.7 million jobs over the past 12 months – and more than 5.5 million jobs since August 2003. The unemployment rate is 4.8 percent – below the average of each of the past three decades. In addition, wages grew 0.4 percent in July, the second consecutive month of strong wage growth and faster than inflation.
The Economy Remains Strong, And The Outlook Is Favorable
calbears.findarticles.com...
www.bizjournals.com...
www.whitehouse.gov...





I do not subscribe to all of the doom and gloom conspiracies that regularly flow through these pages; I read, research and understand. I look around me and see growth, economic structure and overall health.

As far as the neo-cons go, listen to the ultimate neo-con, Rush Limbaugh.

Our military is not in danger of anything except the delusions propagated on threads like this.

Semper



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 06:36 AM
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One quote to start off with:

To the Bush administration it is important that a low unemployment rate reflects the merits of their policies, and thus to convince the American public that their policies are beneficial to the US, and basically that they are doing a good job. Reality differs.


Why the US inflation rate is actually two percent higher than the official rate


The historically low levels of real interest rates (even using the understated CPI data)
suggest a supportive outlook for gold prices. At this stage we see little likelihood of a
significant rise in real US interest rates given the precarious state of consumer
indebtedness.
Within this positive scenario for gold prices we examine the risks that the US economy
could enter a period of either rapidly rising inflation or, alternatively, move into
recession and possibly a deflationary slump, both of which would be likely to put even
more upward pressure on the gold price.


The changes in CPI methodology since the Clinton Administration are estimated by
Williams to have led to the CPI figures systematically understating the true level of US inflation by 2.7% on an ongoing basis.

Source: Cheuveux Gold Report - PDF Format


How it is done:


The W. Street Journal

But even as the Federal Reserve raises interest rates amid a recent uptick in inflation, many critics complain the hedonic method is distorting the picture of what's going on in the economy. They say hedonics is too subjective and fear it helps keep inflation figures artificially low -- meaning the Fed may already be lagging in its inflation-fighting mission.

Full article:
Wall Street Journal: Tricks to lower the actual inflation rate


Actual rate based on the Cheuvreux Gold Report: 6.3 %


US comptroller general David Walker: A 'fiscal hurricane' on the horizon
Federal Report by Professor Kotlikoff, ex advisor of Reagan: Is the US bankrupt? (PDF)


I guess Kotlikoff, the evil professor, is trying to indoctrinate me with lies, isn't he?



Originally posted by Mdv2

Second, people still don't seem to understand how those US figures are deliberately being manipulated. To the Bush administration it is important that a low unemployment rate reflects the merits of their policies, and thus to convince the American public that their policies are beneficial for the US, and basically that they are doing a good job.

Reality differs.

How exactly are the US unemployment figures being manipulated, or adjusted, whatever you'd like to define it as. To the Bush administration it is important that a low unemployment rate reflects the merits of their policies, and thus to convince the American public that their policies are beneficial to the US, and basically that they are doing a good job. Reality differs.

How are exactly the US unemployment figures being manipulated, or adjusted, whatever you'd like to define it as.


...Examples of statistical fabrication abound: the UN's bogus ranking of Canada as No. 1 on its Human Development Index; the Gross Domestic Product, which rates all economic growth as good, even crime and pollution; and Canada's official unemployment rate, which omits discouraged and involuntary
part-time workers.

If I were to pick the most dishonest case of statistical skullduggery, it would probably be the official unemployment rate in the US. This rate -now claimed to be down to five per cent - completely disregards the millions of people who have given up looking for work, as well as those who are working fewer than 20 hours a week but would prefer full-time jobs. The calculation of the U.S. unemployment rate, however, is done much more deceitfully, and with some of the most blatant statistical perversions
ever devised.

Mass layoffs, part-time work, job insecurity, big corporate tax breaks, cuts in welfare and UI benefits are not conducive to a lower rate of unemployment. In fact, they invariably have the very opposite effect. But the political flunkeys want to convince the American public that their free market approach benefits workers as much as shareholders. And how better to peddle that lie as the truth than with the crafty misuse of statistics.

According to the Council on International and Public Affairs (CIPA), the real U.S. rate of unemployment, if properly calculated, would be 11.4 per cent - more than double the official rate. The CIPA listed seven major changes in the definitions of "employed" and "unemployed" that were made in the U.S. methodology that have had the combined effect of substantially reducing the number of
Americans officially listed as being jobless.


Among the categories dropped from the labour force survey, in addition to the discouraged, were the under-16 group, those on strike or locked out and those who weren't actively looking for work in the four weeks prior to the survey. But by far the largest group omitted from the list of jobless in the U.S. are the working-age men who are out of work because they are in prison or on parole.

The 1.5 million American men in jail and the 8.1 million on parole make up nearly 10 per cent of that country's male workforce. By not including them in its labour force survey, the U.S. is able to reduce its official unemployment rate by more than five per cent.

Just as the omission of a large group of unemployed can drastically skew the statistics, so can the inclusion of a group whose members are virtually 100 per cent employed - such as the members of the U.S. armed forces. By lumping
these 1.5 million army, navy, air force and marine personnel
in with the civilian workforce, the official unemployment
rate is reduced by nearly another one per cent.


Ed Finn is a research associate with the Canadian Centre for
Policy Alternatives.


But hey, I don't really care if you prefer to naively believe what Bush wants you to believe. Enjoy researching your ''official'' statistics. One recommendation, give the radio interview a try.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 06:43 AM
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Though I vehemently do not agree with you, I might just listen sometime.

Semper



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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Sempefrtis do you have access to the Early bird, even the Marine Corps are raising concerns about how underfunded the military is.

Too bad that I can not post any of the publications by the DOD because is copyright material.

But when the DOD is addressing such a problem is because is true. One thing is a facade of a healty economy and another one the issues affecting our military personnel in active duty at war.

If you are Military active, reservist or DOD you can log to the page all you need is you social security the information is unbias.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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The National Security Advisory Group
January 2006 came to the conclusion that after the great success of US military forces in Afghanistan and Iraq the troops are experiencing great strain.

The reason, failing to plan for post-conflicts in Iraq.

Failing to have enough troops to accomplish the mission with less risk.

Failing to have enough equipment to protect the troops with in harm’s way.



These failures have created a real risk of “breaking the force” – a force that is critical to protecting and advancing our national interests, now and in the future. The American military deserves better. The American people deserve better.


This is from a side that is available to anybody and it was just a recommendation back in January 6, today is worst than back few months agao.

When the military is in a state of high stress it can become a danger to our own security and can increases the risk to future warfare.

Facts



Nearly all of the available combat units in the U.S. Army, Army National Guard and Marine Corps have been used in current operations

The Army is experiencing the beginnings of what could become a major recruiting crisis

The Army and Marine Corps are meeting their overall retention goals, for the moment, but some fear a major retention crisis may be looming for the Army.

The Army and the Army National Guard have experienced critical equipment shortfalls that increased the level of risk to forces deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan and reduced the readiness of units in the United States


And this were only warnings back afew months ago.

www.globalsecurity.org...



posted on Jun, 9 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
Mdv2, either YOU don't get it, or you never had it.

I do not care about your radio broadcast, I would rather look at economic indicators from professional economists; not listen to all the sad little stories on here and everywhere about how "bad" it is.



Healthy signs for the economy
Nation's Business, April, 1987 by Roger Thompson

Healthy Signs For The Economy
The U.S. economy left the starting block with an unexpected burst of energy in January, causing many forecasters to raise slightly their estimates of how fast the economy will run this year.
~~~~~~~
State's Business Conditions Index points to healthy economy
~~~~~~~
On August 4, 2006, The Government Released New Jobs Figures – 113,000 Jobs Created In July. The economy has created more than 1.7 million jobs over the past 12 months – and more than 5.5 million jobs since August 2003. The unemployment rate is 4.8 percent – below the average of each of the past three decades. In addition, wages grew 0.4 percent in July, the second consecutive month of strong wage growth and faster than inflation.
The Economy Remains Strong, And The Outlook Is Favorable
calbears.findarticles.com...
www.bizjournals.com...
www.whitehouse.gov...





I do not subscribe to all of the doom and gloom conspiracies that regularly flow through these pages; I read, research and understand. I look around me and see growth, economic structure and overall health.

As far as the neo-cons go, listen to the ultimate neo-con, Rush Limbaugh.

Our military is not in danger of anything except the delusions propagated on threads like this.

Semper


I guess we know who was wrong and who was right after three years, right?

Nice unemployment predictions you've got there. A pity they are kinda far from the actual figures.


[edit on 9-6-2009 by Mdv2]



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