7/7 London bombings lies

Deep down I think we're on the same side Strangerous, just coming from different angles. I for one would like to know how dangerous it would be to transport TATP in the manner they supposedly did on 7/7. Everything I've read about TATP says its very unstable, for example:

TATP can be detonated simply using friction or impact, while most nitrogen-based explosives require a detonator like a blasting cap. TATP is extremely unstable, and while it can be made at room temperature, the heat given off in the chemical reaction to form the product can be enough to set off the material. That is the reason that the reaction is carried out on ice and must be kept below 50°F.

Once made, TATP is a white crystalline solid material which is filtered and then dried at room temperature. The crystalline material is extremely friction-sensitive and must be handled with great care. An accidental shock, heat from a nearby cigarette, or screwing on a bottle cap with trace material caught in the threads all have the potential to ignite the material.

Because of its instability, TATP is usually made just before it is to be used in a bomb. If the material is made and then stored, the crystals are stored underwater in a vessel without a screw cap. Crystalline material left sitting out at room temperature for a period of time will begin to sublime, a process where the solid goes to a gas without passing through a liquid phase, as most chemical compounds do. The gas produced is highly toxic and dangerous.

.............

On October 1, 2005, a young Oklahoma University student sat on a park bench eating a sandwich less than 200 yards away from the OU football stadium, with over 80,000 fans present. Just before the half-time show, his backpack with two to three pounds of TATP inside, exploded. It is not clear what he intended to do with the bomb. However, police believe that it was accidentally detonated by his own carelessness. Law enforcement may see more evidence of TATP explosives here in the United States in coming years.

Source

Originally posted by Strangerous
There's about 400+ people in a carriage during the rush hour...

Again, the eyewitness uote from the Cambridge Evening News report above says only 20-25 people were in his carriage:

The explosion happened just after Mr Lait and Ms Main, 23, got on the train at Liverpool Street on their way to the South Bank for a rehearsal.

He recalled that the carriage had about 20-25 people in it, from all walks of life, and aged from their teens to over 60.

Source

[edit on 10-11-2006 by uknumpty]

20-25 people in a carriage! Most Northern Line regular sufferers (sorry commuters) have heard such things rumoured but never actually seen them.

Even that figure (which I think is far too low) would give us 70+ over the three carriages alone. If it was C4-type explosive with a resulting flash then surely we'd have seen at least that number with serious burns rather than the realtively few we saw plus at least 3 secondary fires as bags, seats etc etc caught fire. With the amount of dust, hair, rubbish etc in those tunnels then we may also have seen the tunnel itself catch fire.

I agree on the TATP transport dilemma but again there are other explanations - the attackers had found a way of stabilising it, it wasn't actually TATP (the Govt are not averse to putting out false leads to prompt ECHELON triggers - I certainly looked at TATP on the 'net when they announced, I'm sure many others did too) but another home-made explosive.

With all these things I think the cock-up theory is more likely than the conspiracy and that (IMO) is the reason they're avoiding an enquiry - to cover up the incompetence of the security services / misdirection from a govt keen to downplay the consequences of their contribution to the War on Clutter or over-concerned with being 'PC' where certain parts of our society are concerned.

Originally posted by Strangerous
20-25 people in a carriage! Most Northern Line regular sufferers (sorry commuters) have heard such things rumoured but never actually seen them.

Even that figure (which I think is far too low) would give us 70+ over the three carriages alone.

Some carriages are emptier than others. On the Piccadilly Line out of Heathrow the rear carriages are always fuller than the front becuase that's where the airline passengers board the train.

If our survivor says there were 20-25 on board then we must believe him until they release other evidence (maybe like CCTV!!) proving otherwise.

[edit on 11-11-2006 by uknumpty]

Originally posted by Strangerous
With all these things I think the cock-up theory is more likely than the conspiracy and that (IMO) is the reason they're avoiding an enquiry - to cover up the incompetence of the security services / misdirection from a govt keen to downplay the consequences of their contribution to the War on Clutter or over-concerned with being 'PC' where certain parts of our society are concerned.

Nafeez Ahmed who I mentioned earlier suggests something along these lines. He says that British "Intelligence" struck a "deal" with Islamic militants that they could reside here if they didn't attack the UK.

However, considering that anyone connected with high profile groups like the now banned Al-Muhajiroun will be known to Intelligence services it's difficult to see how they did not spot the double crossing coming down the tracks (i.e. surveillance, bugging should have picked it up)

By the way, only a small amount was written about Mohammed Siddique Khan's connection to our M15 etc. After 9/11 M15 said it would be seeking to recruit from the islamic community in places like Bradford to help infiltrate groups. Khan and his cohorts seemed like and were disposed like intelligence assets.



[edit on 11-11-2006 by uknumpty]

Originally posted by uknumpty


Some carriages are emptier than others. On the Piccadilly Line out of Heathrow the rear carriages are always fuller than the front becuase that's where the airline passengers board the train.


[edit on 11-11-2006 by uknumpty]

That ain't the only reason the rear carriage is fuller than the front ones, but if you don't know why I'm not telling you (sweetie!) - just trying to bring a bit of levity to the discussion

Yeah I've heard this Kahn / MI5 link but also that it was a different one of the many Kahns.

There's clearly a mix of complete BS, confused witnesses / reporting, wishful conspiracy (2+2 = 64), and some genuinely worrying stuff that goes to make up what we think is the 7/7 'evidence'.

Until there are more reliable sources out there than websites in Times New Roman (always a bad sign IMO) quoting 'a bloke told me' & paper-thin 'the times don't match!' stuff as 'proof' then I'm still favouring the cock-up rather than the conspiracy angle.

If it was the big bad MI5/CIA etc etc conspiracy then I'm sure we'll never know - you don't go a round blowing up your own people without covering your tracks 110%

Originally posted by Strangerous
Again people you're falling for the ranting of conspiracy nuts:

Bomb were detonated by the bombers

Initial reports of explosion under the floor were discredited

Flash burns seen on some of the wounded (and it was only a very small proportion) do not mean it wasn't TATP - these could quite easily be secondary effects from other accelerants.

The power surge was just the initial conclusion of the guys in the control room - a perfectly reasonable conclusion given the evidence they were working with.

No-one has yet to provide any credible evidence to refute the official version of events. Apply a little bit of critical thinking and you'll see plainly that the 'evidence' for the conspiracy is in no way convincing.

There is no proof the bombs were detonated by bombers, some eyewitness close to the detonations reported not seeing anyone at the site

Reports of the bombs under the floors of the trains were not discredited, the police simply contradicted

The power surge was NOT simply just the conclusion of guys in a control room

The official version has been refuted with credible evidence many times

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Off topic but may be pertinent, why is ok to call people fools, nuts and incompetent but not idiots or stupid arent they all insults?

The 7/7 event was orchestrated by the Goverment as previously stated. The Police story is full of lies and inconsistencies and the Goverment blocked any official enquiry as it said it would be pointless. Now maybe I'm a fool or stupid but if we are to believe this event and it is an event unpresedented in the UK one would assume that the Goverment would want to find out through the use of a public enquiry as to what really happenedbut it chose not to.

How convenient it must of been to be having a anti terrorist exercise the day of the bombings, plenty of time for the perpatrators to escape during the "exercise" and its funny how the same thing happened on 9/11, just a coincidence isn't it.
The 4 alleged bombers were patsies, the poor sods were part of the excercise but someone forgot to tell them that the exercise was for real and they would be made real terrorists.

Its the perfect cover story, you have 4 Asain men with rucksacks caught on cctv and the police anounce to the world that these were the bombers. Well I bet if they showed all the footage that day there would be thousands of simmilar looking men so the pictures prove nothing, again the set up is just like 9/11. One photo released of Asian looking men at a airport security check point and again were told these are the terrorists, that is the proof offered to the Brtish public , 2 photographs used to convince us who carried out these attacks.

Again look at the background of the bombers, average joe's with no previous, not affiliated with any known groups, just normal men who suddenly decide to blow themselves and others up. Yeah I get out of bed everyday with the same thought. When are the doubters going to realise that there is a war going on, its a war against our freedom and liberty, these events are not unique in history, its happened time and time again. Goverments cannot be trusted, Goverments pose the greatest threat to their own people, again this is historic so why do people find it hard to accept. Its not like it hassent happened before, what will it take for those with closed minds to finally open them.

good points you raise there. I wonder if anything new will come out on this story. we had the BBC wtc7 predictions coming out last week, hopefully something more will come out on this, the useless mainstream media have been disgraceful in how they investigated (or didn't investigate) what really happened that day

another good british website that takes a real good indepth look at 7/7 bombings, effects, terror laws, rights of freespeech eroding in UK, etc

julyseventh.co.uk...

One of the important questions to be asked is why Asawi is being protected by MI6 when the police are looking for him as the main architect of 7/7. He was arrested in Pakistan and released within 24 hours. Similarly detained in the USA and MI6 persuded them to release him.

Originally posted by magicmushroom

How convenient it must of been to be having a anti terrorist exercise the day of the bombings, plenty of time for the perpatrators to escape during the "exercise" and its funny how the same thing happened on 9/11, just a coincidence isn't it.
The 4 alleged bombers were patsies, the poor sods were part of the excercise but someone forgot to tell them that the exercise was for real and they would be made real terrorists.

Its the perfect cover story, you have 4 Asain men with rucksacks caught on cctv and the police anounce to the world that these were the bombers. Well I bet if they showed all the footage that day there would be thousands of simmilar looking men so the pictures prove nothing, again the set up is just like 9/11. One photo released of Asian looking men at a airport security check point and again were told these are the terrorists, that is the proof offered to the Brtish public , 2 photographs used to convince us who carried out these attacks.

Excellent thread And your specific theory is right on target for me magicmushroom, my idea's were half-baked put the points above make my opinion of that day crystal clear. These men were operatives in that anti-terrorism exercise, little did they know the role they were playing was going to end in a false flag operation.

I always remember an eye witness statement from the bus bombing. It described how the fourth bomber Hasib Hussain became agitated as the news of the bombings swept around the people on that bus. My first issue is that he tried to phone the other bombers after the bombings became known to him and the second is that as he became agitated he repeatedly kept looking in the Rucksack with a worried expression.

Sure those actions can be described as innocuous and they can also be described as highly suspicious. Why did he phone the other bombers to make sure they were dead? And why was he agitated about the contents of the rucksack. If it was a bomb and it had failed to detonate he should have known TATP was volatile and to ensure the operation went ahead he could of just stamped on it or slammed the bomb into the bus window. Was Hasib Hussain worried he wasn't going to die, all superposition perhaps but the inconsistencies can't just be explained away.

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Bumping for old time sake