Global War on Terrorism as an excuse for waging war. Israel plans for war with Iran and Syria.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Since Jews have returned and built a country in Israel all that remains is just to live here and develop the country - preferably in peace with our neighbors. There is no requirement to expand but just to live in peace.

In light of this statement, can you tell us what you mean by your "mood" in your panel?

Your reference to Canadian opinion is irrelevant - Canadians live on the other edge of the world and have NO CLUE as to what is going on in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel or in Mexico for that matter.

Isn't this a little condecending? How do you know what WE know? It could be said that YOU don't know what is going on in Canada. Are we that ignorant of world events?

I am an Israeli/American - Am I a Zionist? DAMN STRAIGHT.

JudahMaccabbi, it's all I wanted to know, no need to get all vocal over it.

What is Zionism though - I think there is a little bit of ignorance in the air as to its definition.

Wrong thread, feel free to bring that up in your own post.

Your reference to Canadian opinion is irrelevant - Canadians live on the other edge of the world and have NO CLUE as to what is going on in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel or in Mexico for that matter.

JudahMaccabbi, I'm at a loos how I'm not making my self clear to you;

Before you answer that, in order to remain neutral, I'll post some Canadian views on that;

That statement is self explanatory. I do have to question your lack of knowledge on basic geography though, because Canada is not as you put it "on the edge of the world", and Canadians are far from being ignorant fools as you portray them to be.

UN observer's wife calls Israel attack 'intentional'

ctv.ca

Actually, Canadians enjoy a much higher standard of education then Americans do (you should look up Canada on the map by the way).

Competing against students from 90 other countries, Canadian high school students have done extremely well winning one Gold Medal, two silver, and two Bronze Medals at the 46th International Mathematical Olympiad in (IMO) Mérida, Mexico, from July 8 -19, 2005.

www.math.ca...

Anyway, moving on.

I am hiding nothing - I am an Israeli/American and I love both my countries. It makes it easy for me since both countries are such strong allies.

Good for you, be proud of what you are, it's a good thing, and I never implied that you were hiding anything. I just wanted to establish a base line for your comments, and now we have it.

I, and 52 percent of America actually disagrees with you on the notion that America and Israel are strong allies, but again, we are all entitled to our opinions, regardless of what the facts actually are.

As to Israels plans to attack Syria/Iran, I'm simply against additional expenditures on American tax dollars to support Israels military and geo-political ambitions.

I want American tax dollars to go towards rebuilding of damage brought on by Katrina, and not to be squandered on another war.


[edit on 4-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Hi intrepid, didn't see your post, I was typing at the time.

I'm sure you'll appreciate my comments on Canada, but I hope we all can stay away from the controversial topic of Zionism, because its sure to ignite yet another flame war.

Since we established certain motivations, I'm hoping we can all stick to the issue of Israels large scale plans for war on Syria/Iran.

Originally posted by iskander
Hi intrepid, didn't see your post, I was typing at the time.

I'm sure you'll appreciate my comments on Canada, but I hope we all can stay away from the controversial topic of Zionism, because its sure to ignite yet another flame war.

Since we established certain motivations, I'm hoping we can all stick to the issue of Israels large scale plans for war on Syria/Iran.

Agreed, however my first question still stands as to the topic. If all Israel wants is peace, why a mood of "trigger happy". Sounds like that's proving the point of the thread.

Edit: Yes, I appreciated the comment.

[edit on 4-9-2006 by intrepid]

Agreed, however my first question still stands as to the topic. If all Israel wants is peace, why a mood of "trigger happy". Sounds like that's proving the point of the thread.

Oh I got it, it's about;

"JudahMaccabbi
Mood: trigger happy"

Didn't see that before. You're right, it's a fair question.

Edit: Yes, I appreciated the comment.

I've been to Canada many times. We used to live in Seattle so it was close enough for a weekend drive.

Vancouver, Victoria, etc, all great places to visit.

Cheers mate!

I always had a strange sense of humor - Hence trigger-happy - I knew it would set off that primitive stereotyping in those that subscribe to them.

Regarding my remark about Canadians - Why would I care what someone so far from me (being Israel) thinks about my countries policies. The fact that high school students know the Pythagorian theorum, or can describe quantum entanglement does not make them knowledgable in the intricacies or the complexity of the mid-east conflict. I do not hold Canadians as being experts on these issues. Canadians know what the media feeds them. And to be quite frank the media is looking for scoops and pretty much manufactures them at times (remember those doctored reuters photos from the last conflict in Lebanon) and exaggerates them at other times (remember Signiora crying to the cameras that 40 people were killed in a bombing of a building that turned out to be 1 person).

Regarding the global war on terrorism - Israel plans to wage war on Iran because Iran is a threat to Israel. THat cannot be denied. Its not like Iran does not wage war on Israel - they finance, supply and train Palestinian, Hezbullah and any other Islamofascist who wishes to fight the Jewish infidel. As a result it would be truer to state that Iran and Syria wages war on Israel because Syrian and Iranian aggressions against Israel preceeded the global war on terror.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I always had a strange sense of humor - Hence trigger-happy - I knew it would set off that primitive stereotyping in those that subscribe to them.

Hey pal, your "mood", not mine.

Regarding my remark about Canadians - Why would I care what someone so far from me (being Israel) thinks about my countries policies.

Hmm, we live right next to the States. Do you care what THEY think?

I do not hold Canadians as being experts on these issues. Canadians know what the media feeds them.

Really? Well, this Canadian doesn't listen to the media, I make up my own mind on things and I can see from your OWN self admitted ZIONIST posting that the topic here is valid. Let's look at it, why don't we:

Regarding the global war on terrorism - Israel plans to wage war on Iran because Iran is a threat to Israel. THat cannot be denied.

There you have it, from the horses mouth, so to speak.

Its not like Iran does not wage war on Israel - they finance, supply and train Palestinian, Hezbullah and any other Islamofascist who wishes to fight the Jewish infidel. As a result it would be truer to state that Iran and Syria wages war on Israel because Syrian and Iranian aggressions against Israel preceeded the global war on terror.

By extention the same could be said of the US, with it's ties and funding for Israel. You said it, not me mate. So by extention, does that mean that the Islamofacists should target the States? Oops, seems like that's already happened. But I digress, I'm merely a Canadian with NO idea what goes on in the world.

It makes it easy for me since both countries are such strong allies.

And if that should change (as I suspect it's likely to), which country are you going to choose?
(Like I even have to ask.)

As far as Canada goes, Canada is a vastly closer ally to the US than Israel.
Our largest trading partner, biggest land border, fought side by side in two world wars, etc...

What has Israel done for the US but cash it's checks and sell it's technology?

[edit on 9/4/06 by xmotex]

In the USs current position in Iraq it is both Iran and Syria who are flaming insurgency in Iraq. Syria and Iran's involvement in Lebanese affair are a cause of much upset and instability and Iran's nuclear ambitions and ties to Syria are a threat to the entire middle east and I am not talking about Israel alone. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Yemen, Egypt, Jordan are all threatened by Iran and behind closed doors are hoping that either the US or Israel snags their nuclear ambition ASAP.

Regarding the above quote - The US has one VERY staunch ally in the middle east that, of course, is Israel.

Iran and Syria did not perpetuate the troubles in the Middle East nor did they certainly plan to upsurge this slaughter in Iraq. How do you suppose Iran and Syria benefit from the slaughter in Iraq? By killing those they consider brethren they destroy American influence in Iraq? Was it not the false evidence provided by the Bush Administration that consequently led to the events unfolding in the Middle East? The U.S has been planning a war in the Middle East to galvanize it's resources for decades and this is substantiated in numerous treaties written by members of the Pentegon, Military officials and the Bush Administration itself; the PNAC would be the best bet to understand U.S foriegn policy and it's ambitions to remain the only global superpower and the imperative need for a global unipolar complex under U.S hegonomy.

There has been very little evidence to suggest that Iran and Syria have fueled this fire in Iraq and very little is provided other than the redundant retorhic we're bombarded with on U.S news agencies. So if you have any cemented evidence, we'll be happy to believe you.

Iran does not have any WMD ambitions, it's simply exersizes it's right to nuclear energy, the same right the U.S imposes upon. Perhaps we should chide the U.S for disregarding the NPT before we do of Iran.

Your reference to Canadian opinion is irrelevant - Canadians live on the other edge of the world and have NO CLUE as to what is going on in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel or in Mexico for that matter.

That's the most ignorant statement I've heard you say today. I am a Canadian and know well enough of the political strife in the Middle East to understand your constant deflections of illegalities commited by your country. You seem to have no clue and work your suggestions through you predispositioned bias in this matter. I would ask of you to understand the marginality of your own American perception universaly before you critisize another country.

Luxifero

Regarding my remark about Canadians - Why would I care what someone so far from me (being Israel) thinks about my countries policies. The fact that high school students know the Pythagorian theorum, or can describe quantum entanglement does not make them knowledgable in the intricacies or the complexity of the mid-east conflict. I do not hold Canadians as being experts on these issues. Canadians know what the media feeds them. And to be quite frank the media is looking for scoops and pretty much manufactures them at times (remember those doctored reuters photos from the last conflict in Lebanon) and exaggerates them at other times (remember Signiora crying to the cameras that 40 people were killed in a bombing of a building that turned out to be 1 person).

You're a very myopic person, inherently conditioned into your mentality by years of subjective perception of global issues and never thinking objectively or understanding that certain Canadians are worried about the illegal objectives of Isreal which has consequently destroyed an entire group of peoples for reasons that have been nothing but those of greed and power. The subordination of Palestinians and the plethora of war crimes commited by Isreal unto Palestianians and Lebonese society is important being that it was Canada that helped fight against the Germans from slaughtering your people, and to now watch as these very people turn on innocents seems uncomforting.

It's obvious that you're not expert in this matter, just a conditioned puppet.

Luxifero

OK, let's keep it cool folks.

Even though intrepid and other already posed some question, I can't help my self but to ask mine.

I always had a strange sense of humor - Hence trigger-happy - I knew it would set off that primitive stereotyping in those that subscribe to them.

JudahMaccabbi, ones sense of humor is neither advertised nor announced. I for one fail to associate a witty sense of humor with being trigger happy.

trigger happy -

1. ready to fire a gun at the least provocation, regardless of the situation or probable consequences: a trigger-happy hunter.
2. heedless and foolhardy in matters of great importance and recklessly advocating action that can result in war: Some called him a trigger-happy candidate.
3. eager to point out the mistakes or shortcomings of others; aggressively or wantonly critical: He's a trigger-happy editor with a nervous blue pencil.

I take it you are attempting to describe your critical thinking (3rd point). I'm yet to see one such example though. Keep working on that.

Regarding my remark about Canadians - Why would I care what someone so far from me (being Israel) thinks about my countries policies. The fact that high school students know the Pythagorian theorum, or can describe quantum entanglement does not make them knowledgable in the intricacies or the complexity of the mid-east conflict. I do not hold Canadians as being experts on these issues.

I don't think it's fair to gang up on this issue since intrepid is already taking care of the Canadian aspect of this discussion.

Canadians know what the media feeds them. And to be quite frank the media is looking for scoops and pretty much manufactures them at times (remember those doctored reuters photos from the last conflict in Lebanon) and exaggerates them at other times (remember Signiora crying to the cameras that 40 people were killed in a bombing of a building that turned out to be 1 person).

This I will disagree with. Canadian media is drastically different then US media. The very foundation of Canadian media is ENTIRELY different. US media is a sensationalist/fear/ratings driven media which is self isolated from outside sources, Canadian media closely resembles European media formats.

As to the incident of professional sabotage by doctoring photos, I have linked my other posts which you clearly ignored.

In order to avoid further attempts of blatant propaganda, I'll post them again,

Debunking of "Hezbollah" disinformation campaign;

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

More of the same;

politics.abovetopsecret.com...'

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

politics.abovetopsecret.com...'

Knock your self out, those are the forums to discuss such topics, not this one.

Regarding the global war on terrorism - Israel plans to wage war on Iran because Iran is a threat to Israel. THat cannot be denied. Its not like Iran does not wage war on Israel - they finance, supply and train Palestinian, Hezbullah and any other Islamofascist who wishes to fight the Jewish infidel. As a result it would be truer to state that Iran and Syria wages war on Israel because Syrian and Iranian aggressions against Israel preceeded the global war on terror.

That is in deed a trigger happy type of statement. It would be even "truer" to state, is that the colonization of Palestine by mass post WWII resettlement of Eastern Jews into Palestinian land (which was sponsored by Zionists), and turning it into the largest ghetto in the world is what perpetuates the endless cycle of violence in the Middle East.

And if that should change (as I suspect it's likely to), which country are you going to choose?
(Like I even have to ask.)

xmotex, that is exactly what I wanted to ask, especially in light of this;

I am hiding nothing - I am an Israeli/American and I love both my countries. It makes it easy for me since both countries are such strong allies.

And then this;

Regarding my remark about Canadians - Why would I care what someone so far from me (being Israel) thinks about my countries policies.

So JudahMaccabbi, just as xmotex has asked, what exactly are your allegiances here? First you say you are an Israeli/American, then you say you are an Israeli. Would it be fair to say that you are in fact a Zionist Israeli with privileges of American citizenship?

Just another fair question.

Luxifero, I have to say, nice to meet you. You know how I mean it. These days logic and reason are an endangered species, and it's always nice to meet another survivor

Loved your posts, keep them coming.

This thread is so far off topic, I don't know whether to admit my opinion to the thread or not.. everyone seems to be jumping the Israeli guy or American, what ever he is.

Why are you guys attacking him like that? Savage dogs, that is what you are all acting like. This is no longer a civil conversation but an attack Juddah thread, how do you expect to debate anything if that is how your going to act?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
This thread is so far off topic, I don't know whether to admit my opinion to the thread or not.. everyone seems to be jumping the Israeli guy or American, what ever he is.

Why are you guys attacking him like that? Savage dogs, that is what you are all acting like. This is no longer a civil conversation but an attack Juddah thread, how do you expect to debate anything if that is how your going to act?

I don't think that we are off topic, remember what it is?

"Global War on Terrorism as an excuse for waging war. Israel plans for war with Iran and Syria."

He's made statememnts here ABOUT this. He can either answer them or not. If you don't like the fact that he made these statement, u2u him. It's not the board that should be held accountable.

We're "savage dogs"? Why? Maybe, we're all "anti-semites".

Nice attitude Intrep. I never said I was for or against his position. I was only saying that every one who disagrees with him is jumping on him. I also never accused you of being an anti semite.... where on earth did that come from honestly.. you must have thought I was challenging you simply because I was defending Judah on his views instead of as a person. This is a hostil thread. That is what I meant.

Iskanders points are no more valid then Judahs, both are based on opion and all I see is:

There we go, neo-con talk. Well. let me put it this way, the PEOPLE of USA and Israel are FED UP with corrupt governments which force these wars.

pavil, I made my self very clear;

Yet you insist on pitting the debate on the "prove it" factor;

That's called diversion of the topic.

It would appear to me atleast that Mr. Iskander had no intention of actually debating his ideology, be it right or wrong and simply wanted people to go with the flow. His answers to the questions where also opinionated represented through him as fact. When a question was asked on why he did not answer, or that his answer, though much against his own thoughs was flawed, he would tell them off as being zionist, you know, the typical go around. Backed by a mod of course.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Nice attitude Intrep. I never said I was for or against his position. I was only saying that every one who disagrees with him is jumping on him. I also never accused you of being an anti semite.... where on earth did that come from honestly.. you must have thought I was challenging you simply because I was defending Judah on his views instead of as a person. This is a hostil thread. That is what I meant.

Why is MY attitude out of order? I can't challenge a fellow members assertions? I was just cutting to the chase with the "anti-semite" post. He seems to draw it like a weapon when challenged.

It would appear to me atleast that Mr. Iskander had no intention of actually debating his ideology, be it right or wrong and simply wanted people to go with the flow. His answers to the questions where also opinionated represented through him as fact. When a question was asked on why he did not answer, or that his answer, though much against his own thoughs was flawed, he would tell them off as being zionist, you know, the typical go around.

Matters little to me, I was on a different tack. We'll see if JM acknowledges MY post.

Backed by a mod of course.

Your point is lost on me here. I'm not allowed to post, to question, because I'm a staff member? There's the thanks for keeping this site open and available to everyone. To quote you..............

Trying to remain on topic, I think the title is a little disingenuous.

"Israel plans for war with Iran and Syria"

Every nation with a military has contingency plans. I'm positive that Israel would have plans for war with Syria & Iran.....and Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, and anyone else they can think of. It makes sense. Self preservation.

The US has all sorts of "What if?" military plans, so do the Russians, the Cubans, and everyone else. I wouldn't villify Israel for doing the same thing, its better than getting caught with your pants down like the US did on 9/11.

Originally posted by iskander
Naturally there is an entire world of such common knowledge out there, so break a leg. Keeping my fingers crossed.

You pick a poll from June 2003 and find it surprising that the US is held in low esteem by Muslim countries? Myself I don't find that extremely strange given the region and the situation when the poll was taken, just after/during the invasion of Iraq.

Fast forward to July 2005
Support for Bin Laden and Suicide attacks have dropped and now citizens of Islamic countries are concerned about Islamic Extremism as a threat to their countries as well.

Islamic Extremism: Common Concern for Muslim and Western Public's Support for Terror Wanes Among Muslim Publics

Concerns over Islamic extremism, extensive in the West even before this month's terrorist attacks in London, are shared to a considerable degree by the publics in several predominantly Muslim nations surveyed. Nearly three-quarters of Moroccans and roughly half of those in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia see Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries. At the same time, most Muslim publics are expressing less support for terrorism than in the past. Confidence in Osama bin Laden has declined markedly in some countries and fewer believe suicide bombings that target civilians are justified in the defense of Islam.

Or even June 2006
The Great Divide: How Westerners and Muslims View Each Other

The survey shows both hopeful and troubling signs with respect to Muslim support for terrorism and the viability of democracy in Muslim countries. In Jordan, Pakistan and Indonesia, there have been substantial declines in the percentages saying suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilian targets can be justified to defend Islam against its enemies. The shift has been especially dramatic in Jordan, likely in response to the devastating terrorist attack in Amman last year; 29% of Jordanians view suicide attacks as often or sometimes justified, down from 57% in May 2005.

Confidence in Osama bin Laden also has fallen in most Muslim countries in recent years. This is especially the case in Jordan, where just 24% express at least some confidence in bin Laden now, compared with 60% a year ago. A sizable number of Pakistanis (38%) continue to say they have at least some confidence in the al Qaeda leader to do the right thing regarding world affairs, but significantly fewer do so now than in May 2005 (51%). However, Nigeria's Muslims represent a conspicuous exception to this trend; 61% of Nigeria's Muslims say they have at least some confidence in bin Laden, up from 44% in 2003.

Both very good reads, I suggest everyone look at them as they have hopeful and troubling results from their polling.

Sorry I'm asking you again to prove your statement:

Iran and Syria are not the only two powers in the ME that are not allied with the West

You still have not named another country or government that is neutral or allied against the West in regards to the statement at hand.

The US currently has agreements or bases with the following countries in the Middle East:
Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Yemen and Jordan. Just outside of the Middle East there are bases in Turkey, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Djibouti and Turkmenistan. Only Uzbekistan has asked the US remove it's troops from their country.

Originally posted by pavil
Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Yemen and Jordan. Just outside of the Middle East there are bases in Turkey, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan, Djibouti and Turkmenistan. Only Uzbekistan has asked the US remove it's troops from their country.

That is true Pavil but remember that all these comes with treaties and many, many tax payer money involve on coercion with the name of incentives.

They are not just because of the willingness of the people, just the governments.

Tell which nation in the middle east has the entire population favoring US present in their lands.

Israel? does US have troops in Israel?

Iraq is occupied so they don't have much opinion on the matter as long as US dollars are coming into the Nation.

Every of the other nations has their own problems to face whenever they have their populations protesting US and their government involvement.

Now is not people's willingness at all. . . . Change on regime in any of those nations and they will become axis of evil when they stop allowing US to utilized their land.

Thats what happen with Iran after the Shah. Remember?

That kind of foreign policies are making our nation into bully and that is no only damaging to our standing in the world but also to us American citizens that are targets of the citizens of this nations anger the ones we call terrorist.

Governments can not control the extremist that the doings of their governments are brewing.

It only creates more terrorist to harm US as a nation, just because the interest of our government and the people they serve and is not you and me.

[edit on 4-9-2006 by marg6043]

Lets not forget that Arab countries have gotten very very wealthy or more wealthy because of the increase in oil prices even though it cost the same amount to produce it.

Now, not saying that your average Arab would say that America has made them wealthy, infact they remain poor as dirt though the do benifit because Arab states pay for everything and most do not collect taxes.

Is Israel planning a new war for Syria and Iran... no Israel will not, they could, but will not invade Syria or Iran because they cannot pull off the terrorist hype they did with Lebanon. America is planning to invade Iran, Israel may very well be planning on defending it's self from Iran and Syria. Either way it would be a quick war and then Israel is pretty safe from Iran, Israel will never assist us though because it is bad PR. Invading an Islamic nation with Jews at your side would never go well.

Iskader says that most Arab countries hate us because there are a few who train as terrorist, yet in America they do as well. Including the UK which has had plenty of terrorist training issues in their own nation, that does not mean that the entire population of the UK hates the UK. Not all Egyptions hate America, we may not be popular but did you see them rushing to the aid of Iraq or Lebanon?

Arab states are not friendly to eachother, they are all independant an when Iraq fell, many Arabs where relieved. Like say Kuwait and any one else neighboring them.