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Jews Face Violence Again

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posted on Sep, 7 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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Odium
You are 100% correct. Many of our Police and Security departments are even going as far as having Israeli security train our Police as well as other divisions. This is becoming quite apparent from the recent trend of how things are going as far as Video taping protests and other such things. If Im not mistaken even the OP of this thread has said that he was trained by Israelis in interrogation techniques for Middle eastern people. They fail miserably in the Middle east with their methods and now we are trying to employ their racist and cruel methods not only here but abroad as well. It too is failing miserably.

Not for nothing but the Renditions, Abu Gharib, and even Guantanamo all stink to high hell of Shin Beit and Mossad techniques. I would not at all be surprised if there are Israeli operatives in Iraq and within other areas of our Defense department acting as technical advisors and other such positions.


Pie




posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 07:12 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
How can a militia from a different neigboring country that is considered a terrorist country by most developed country and that resides in a country that does not act to safeguard its borders equivalent to a street gang.

Errr, do you mean the HIZB'ALLAH, which was formed in 1982 with the invasion of Lebanon by Israel?


Did you know that initially Hizbullah accepted Israel with joy. They were happy that Israel is purging their lands from the PLO.
Anyhow Hizbullah, Amal, PLO, the Phalange militia the Druze militia were all part of the civil war and everyone represented some group. Hizbullah represented the Shiite and Amal was a secular shiite organization. Anyhow Hizbullah came to fight for the interest of the religious Shiites in the civil war. Saying that their primary existance was to fight Israel is, well, dishonest, stupid, you choose.


Oh I am sorry - I ment to say, Isreal was only Protecting itself from the Evil Terrorists; the ones that they actually created by occupying the Land, which once belonged to somebody else; like the People of Palestine for example.


You are right they were protecting themselves. Israel did not occupy anything. Fact is that the Islamofacsist ideal could not accept a small Jewish land appropriated to the Jews as part of the partition plan on lands that anyhow had a Jewish majority. The greed, intolerance and the Islamofacsist nature of the likes of Haj Amin Al Hussein and his psycho facist cohorts needed to rule over the Jews to please this biggoted interpretation of their religion rather that live side by side in peace with the Jews. Basically the Islamofascists bit-off more than they can chew or maybe G-d was on Israel side since till this day we have no idea how the small, under-equiped, underarmed Jewish paramilitary force were able to fight off 5 (or is that 6 Arab armies).
If you want to look at who is to blame for the Palestinians sorry condition look at the Arab states who warmongered the Jews at the expense at the Palestinians and look at those Islamic leaders whose facsist interpretation of the Koran brings about only misery and suffering to themselves and everyone around them.


Not to mention, that Hizb'Allah was DEMOCRATICAL voted by the people of Lebanon - and that is what the West wants right? Democracy in the Middle East? Yes?
But why do they - with the Help of Israel ofcourse - try to elimnate the Democraticaly Elected Parties like Hamas and Hizb'Allah?

WELL - this are the RESULTS!

The People Have Spoken!
Hezbullah is actually a threat to the democracy in Lebanon in that it is an armed gang of islamic thugs that are loyal to Syria and Iran. In what other democratic countries can a Parlimentary faction have its own army that is supported by foreign forces?
Moreover, Hezbullah has only 14 seats out of 128 in the Lebanese Parliment, as a result the people have spoken and it was not FOR Hezbullah.


You support the USA efforts to install Democracy in Middle East, correct?

Not necessarily, if Islamofascists would highjack that democracy to create a warmongering theocracy I think a moderate, secular autocracy would be better.


Those who see a parallel are either blinder than a bat with cateracts or who have a political agenda.

And you have No Political Agenda at all, right?

I have my own perception on how things should be without clouding it in lies and inaccuracies.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 01:51 PM
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semperfortis, your list does not mention any of the Irish Terrorist groups or so on and so fourth. Just information? Hmm...

JudahMaccabbi, you are still making me laugh. Do you count Northern Ireland as a terrorist country also? Or does your slant only work to those who are Islamic? You can't call a country a "terrorist country" because a organization of terrorists have members in Government - if the majority of the Government was, then so be it. However, to argue Lebanon was a hard-line Islamic State prior to the bombings? You must be on something. It was a rather decent tourist destination now I know terrorist adn tourist look similar but they are different. :-)



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 02:16 PM
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Yes odium, hmmmm just information.

Regardless of your impolite post, my post was a simple Gov't site in regards to terror organizations now "active" and recognized by the US.

I did not write it and if you had bothered to click the supplied URL, you would also find I did not alter it in anyway.

So yes, just information: hmmmm

And by the way, information that is extraordinarily LESS partisan and disruptive then your "information?"

Semper



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
JudahMaccabbi, you are still making me laugh. Do you count Northern Ireland as a terrorist country also? Or does your slant only work to those who are Islamic? You can't call a country a "terrorist country" because a organization of terrorists have members in Government - if the majority of the Government was, then so be it. However, to argue Lebanon was a hard-line Islamic State prior to the bombings? You must be on something. It was a rather decent tourist destination now I know terrorist adn tourist look similar but they are different. :-)


I never said that Lebanon is a terrorist state. I spoke of Souljah's remark about Lebanese democracy and Hezbullah's role in being a threat to that democratic society. I stressed that Hezbullah represented only approxiomately 10% of the population in that 14 out of 128 parlimentary seats in Lebanon where Hezbullah. I do not know how you came about to think I said something else!



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 02:55 PM
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Why is Israel one of the few wealthy and prosperous countries in the entire world that does not allow third world immigration on a scale that matches most of the rest of the developed world? The cultures of all first world nations are being watered down daily by massive immigration of people and it resists the will of most of the people. Israel as ususal seems to be able to do what it wants outside of the rest of the world.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Why is Israel one of the few wealthy and prosperous countries in the entire world that does not allow third world immigration on a scale that matches most of the rest of the developed world? The cultures of all first world nations are being watered down daily by massive immigration of people and it resists the will of most of the people. Israel as ususal seems to be able to do what it wants outside of the rest of the world.

Israel's population and size is relatively small. Any influx of 'third world immigrants" can cause a demographic shift that would be detrimental to the country and therefore does not serve the interest of Israel.
In most other developed countries, the countries are large and populous. Immigration from third world countries provides cheap labor and more taxes for the country.



posted on Sep, 8 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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JudahMaccabbi, lying is a bad a habit.


Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Odium,

How can a militia from a different neigboring country that is considered a terrorist country by most developed country and that resides in a country that does not act to safeguard its borders equivalent to a street gang.



Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I never said that Lebanon is a terrorist state.


So...who were you typing about? Remember, the picture is about Hezbollah who are from Lebanon. Oh wait, is State and Country two different things? Nope...definitions check out as the same.

I really don't like people who lie. It doesn't help your arguement one bit.

Let's see our faithful Hero: Judah, the defender of Israel dig himself out of this hole.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 09:21 AM
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Hey Juddah, whats up with the Word "Islamofacsist"?

You like used it as many times as mister President Bush in his new speeches about the Evils of Islamic Terrorist - and I guess you just LOVED how he used the word "Fascism" alongside with "Islam"; but in Fact his own ruling has prooved numerous times to be more Fascist, then all the Islamofascists combined. And to move further, I would say that Israel is a Fascists state, when observing their actions against the People of Palestine, who live in concentration camps - or Ghettos - and the way the treat other neighbours of theirs.

Pretty simple;

With Friends Like Juddah - WHO NEEDS ENEMIES?



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
JudahMaccabbi, lying is a bad a habit.


Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Odium,

How can a militia from a different neigboring country that is considered a terrorist country by most developed country and that resides in a country that does not act to safeguard its borders equivalent to a street gang.



Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I never said that Lebanon is a terrorist state.


So...who were you typing about? Remember, the picture is about Hezbollah who are from Lebanon. Oh wait, is State and Country two different things? Nope...definitions check out as the same.

I really don't like people who lie. It doesn't help your arguement one bit.


When you are right you are right. My apologies.
I do not consider Lebanon a terrorist country. I meant to say terrorist organization - relating to Hezbullah (Hezbullah is considered a terrorist organization by most developed countries). Lebanon is not a terrorist country although it is a country that harbors many terrorist organizations. The Lebanese country has suffered much due to the civil war, which dragged in the Israelis, the Syrians and the Iranians. Lebanon needs to enforce its laws on the various militias in its realm and free itself from the lawlessness in its lands.


Let's see our faithful Hero: Judah, the defender of Israel dig himself out of this hole.


Was that good enough



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Hey Juddah, whats up with the Word "Islamofacsist"?

You like used it as many times as mister President Bush in his new speeches about the Evils of Islamic Terrorist - and I guess you just LOVED how he used the word "Fascism" alongside with "Islam"; but in Fact his own ruling has prooved numerous times to be more Fascist, then all the Islamofascists combined. And to move further, I would say that Israel is a Fascists state, when observing their actions against the People of Palestine, who live in concentration camps - or Ghettos - and the way the treat other neighbours of theirs.


Souljah,

Finally statements and not questions! You have a tendency to get under my skin with your blatant and mindless Jew-bashing. You quote virulent anti-Jewish texts which supposedly quote unexisting texts in the Talmud and those that do exist where mostly miinterpreted and taken out of context.

Now to your question. I understand you do not like the term Islamofacsist and I can understand that. It is unfair of me to label Islam as fascist but I do not. Islam is not facist. The extremist interpretation of Islam is facsist.

Labeling Israel and the US as facsist is stupid and inaccurate because the fundamental characteristics of facsism requires an autocratic form of government with little freedom (which is characteristic of neither Israel nor the US) and extreme nationalism (which is also not characteristic of the US or Israel since Israel itself has many people who criticize and do not agree with their country's policies).
The above definitions fit extremist Muslims since Fundamentalist Muslims are anti democracy and believe in autocratic (caliphate) rule and once imposed all none Muslims will be second hand citizens. This by definition makes fundamentalist Muslims Facsists.

The question here is are you offended because you though I labeled all Muslims facsists or where you offended because you are fundamentalist yourself and do not like the ring of the word facsist????



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Labeling Israel and the US as facsist is stupid and inaccurate...



Well I am not going into Details of impending signs of USA and Israeli being close friends with Other Fascist Regimes in the Past, but here is just a little Taste:

Israeli Rule over Palestinians is Fascist
Fascism Anyone?

And ofcourse lets not forget mister Umberto Eco and his Words:


Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt

In spite of some fuzziness regarding the difference between various historical forms of fascism, I think it is possible to outline a list of features that are typical of what I would like to call Ur-Fascism, or Eternal Fascism. These features cannot be organized into a system; many of them contradict each other, and are also typical of other kinds of despotism or fanaticism. But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it.




The question here is are you offended because you though I labeled all Muslims facsists or where you offended because you are fundamentalist yourself and do not like the ring of the word facsist????

You did not offended me - you are just offending an ENTIRE Religion with the Fascist Label used infront of the Name of an Entire Religion. Would you like me to call you Judeo-Fascist? Would you not feel offended? How would that make you feel?

And I am not a Muslim, nor am I a Fundamentalist.

I am just a Citizen of this Planet, where ALL the People are MY Sisters and Brothers, regarding the color of their skin, their religion and their culture. Yes, even you are my Brother dear Juddah.

BUT;
In this alleged War on Terror, supported by USA, Europe and Israel all I see is an extreem Islamo-PHOBIA, which has begin to grow larger and larger and is beginning to have extreme effects on the world population. And have you asked yourself why? How come Muslims are the Enemies of the Free World, when they do not have ANY Soliders in ANY Foreign Country - like for example USA and Israel DO!

Ah YES! USA and Israel is Just defending themselves and defending the Democracy, correct? Defending the rest of the Free World from this Islamo-Fascists. I bet Hitler used the same terminology against the Communists and Jews when he was "Defending" the Third Reich against Communist Terrorists hiding in Poland, which attacked der Reichstag and burned it....



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex
I agree the Hezbollah targeting of Israeli population centers is disgusting.
But on the other hand not nearly as murderous as Israel's attack on Lebanese population centers.


I see, so the deaths of muslim civilans is more disgusting than the deaths of Jewish civilians; very interesting, do you really believe this? I wish people would stop and think about what they are saying before they just put it out there for everyone to see. What on earth would make one person's death less of a tragedy, just because they happen to be of a different race or religion?

Props to you, Semper, for a great post; it should give everyone pause for thought; at least those who have the capacity for rational thought.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Well I am not going into Details of impending signs of USA and Israeli being close friends with Other Fascist Regimes in the Past, but here is just a little Taste:

Israeli Rule over Palestinians is Fascist


Do you follow current events? Couldn't come up with anything more up-to-date than a 1988 article? Are you aware that since then there was Madrid, Oslo, Wye, Camp David, Sharem, return of every Palestinian city to Palestinian control, Disengagement from Gaza. All this while Islamofacsists were in no way, shape or form ready to negotiate any type of agreement with the Jews so long as a Jewish country existed.
Maybe this little piece of fact just stands in your way of actually SEEing the truth and fulfilling with the fact that the warring party is the Arabs and not the Jews.
Besides that that article is RIDDLED with inaccuracies as all Israel-bashing articles. If you would like (which I know you don't) we can discuss this.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Fascism Anyone?

On a whole it is a nice article I'll give you that one BUT it is a classic case of propaganda and the pot calling the Kettle black? let us revert to the ORIGINAL article by Laurence Britt and actually examine the points one by one:
The 14 points of Facsism uncovered in a comparison of Facsist regimes (www.secularhumanism.org...) :


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

This is pretty much the case for many countries. I would not call Israel xenophobic since Arabs and Muslims are part of Israeli society (Israeli Arabs) and even form its military and police. Syria, Iran and all Islamic organization are extremely xenophobic - They fear Jews, they refer to the 'Elders of the Protocols of Zion' repeatedly and they utterly hate the US and Israel.
Zionism is a four letter word and their state media depicts horrendous anti-jewish Charicatures in their Media outlets and fictional anti-Israel movies claimed to be true.
Source.
I suspect though that you actually believe that the 'Protocols' are a true Jewish conspiracy document.
The use of the 'protocols' are proof of Islamic xenophobia, the blood libel they sputter is another example.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

The purposeful targetting of children in buses, families in restaurants, teens in dance clubs, families in religious gatherings are common-place among Islamic fundamentalists. These atrocities were also accepted by the civilians of those countries:
news.bbc.co.uk...
(if such polls were available from Iran or Syria I would have posted them as well - I suspect though that there is a strong support for targetting Israeli civilians among these people as well).
On the other hand terorist attacks of Israelis such as that of Baruch Goldstein and his likes were strongly condemed by a vast majority of Israelis.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

Scapegoating by the Arabs are a widespread phenomena. For Arabs the world's problems are ALWAYS because of Israel -examples???
->9/11 was a Mossad operation
->The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world is a best-seller in the Arab world.
->Arabs claim that Jews use the blood of non-Jewish children to make holiday pastries.
All of the above are lies.
In the eyes if Arabs, when Israel bombs combatants and civilians nearby are injured or killed Israelis are labeled 'Terrorists' but when Palestinians bomb children on a bus by purpose it is not labeled as terrorist.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

Iran every few months has highly publicized Military exercises and testing new missiles both to scare off military invasions and to rally public pride in the Iranian military. Both Iran and Syria have a high poverty rate and engage in much militarism against Israel though proxies. Israel although highly militaristic has no choice but to be so since a weak Israel would mean a dead Israel.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

Should I even get into this? Homosexuals are hanged in Iran. Women require head-dresses. I won't bother its clear.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

All sides are more or less guilty of this although the media in both Syria and Iran are strictly controlling the media. Recently Iranian police started enforcing the law that outlawed satellite dishes which connects Iran to foreign news.

All media in Iran is controlled directly or indirectly by the state, and must be approved by the Ministry of Islamic Guidance before it can be released to the public. The state also actively monitors the Internet
Source
Similarly Syrian Media is highly restricted.
On the other hand Al-jezira is a standard package on Israeli cable and satellite networks and the Israeli and US media is very open with representation of all political parties.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

Israel is highly sensitive to its national security in light of its conditions but those who question the military are not punished. There are many anti-military demonstations and it is legal. This is not the case in the Arab world. Syria's Baath party and Iran's Ayatollah's are in direct control of the military while the Israeli democratically elected government is in direct control of the military.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
BUT;
In this alleged War on Terror, supported by USA, Europe and Israel all I see is an extreem Islamo-PHOBIA, which has begin to grow larger and larger and is beginning to have extreme effects on the world population. And have you asked yourself why? How come Muslims are the Enemies of the Free World, when they do not have ANY Soliders in ANY Foreign Country - like for example USA and Israel DO!


Souljah,

It's not that Muslims are the enemy of the free world but that enemies of the free world are Muslim; do you see not the difference? And every suicide-bomber, every jihadist fighter anywhere in the world considers himself a soldier of Allah. I deplore the term "fascist", because it seems to be applied too freely to anyone who doesn't agree with the "current" political thinking but I think Juddah got it right when he said that extreme Islamist countries and organizations fir the fascist profile. We don't have to agree with something for it to be true. Just my two cents.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Are you aware that since then there was Madrid, Oslo, Wye, Camp David, Sharem, return of every Palestinian city to Palestinian control, Disengagement from Gaza.

Yeah?

For Real?

EVERY SINGLE PALESTINIAN CITY IS IN PALESTINIAN CONTROL?

You 100% Sure?

Well I am sure that they teach you that at the IDF Accademy.

And I am more then sure, that they do not let you see the Documentaries regarding the Palestinian Problematics, which I have seen.

You know what I saw?

People of Palestine Living in GHETTOS - you know what a Ghetto is right? I hope that they teached you that at the IDF accademy, because it has alot to do with the Jewish People.

So - how come, that 65 UN resolutions targetting Israel and NONE target Palestine?

So - how come, that there have been 4,170 Palestinian homes Destroyed since year 2000, and NONE Jewish Homes were destroyed?

And Above All, HOW COME, that there have been 60+ new Jewish-only settlements Build on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003?

Remember the Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 (now I know that does not mean anything to you):

“The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.”

FURTHERMORE,


If Americans Knew

Since 1967, each Israeli government has invested significant resources in establishing and expanding settlements in the Occupied Territories. As a result of this policy, approximately 380,000 Israeli citizens now live on the settlements on the West Bank, including those established in East Jerusalem.

Israel has created in the Occupied Territories a regime of separation based on discrimination, applying two separate systems of law in the same area and basing the rights of individuals on their nationality. This regime is the only one of its kind in the world, and is reminiscent of distasteful regimes from the past, such as the Apartheid regime in South Africa.

Under this regime, Israel has stolen hundreds of thousands of dunam of land from the Palestinians. Israel has used this land to establish dozens of settlements in the West Bank and to populate them with hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens. Israel prohibits the Palestinians as a group from entering and using these lands, and uses the settlements to justify numerous violations of the Palestinians’ human rights, such as the right to housing, to earn a livelihood, and the right to freedom of movement. The drastic change that Israel has made in the map of the West Bank prevents any real possibility for the establishment of an independent, viable Palestinian state as part of the Palestinians’ right to self-determination.

Yep - Israel fits the Apartheid Regime, which was for long in effect in South Africa, but still is in effect in West Bank and Gaza Strip. Ever seen how these places look like? Well if you are an IDF soldier, then I guess you have seen in what kind of condition they live and how many people actually is cramped in this small urban areas, which hold too many people, have checkpoints, walls, no fresh water sources etc. But HEY! - I guess they do not teach you that at the IDF academy.


Israeli Settlements ‘Still Expanding’ Unchecked

Israeli settlements are still being established in Palestinian territory according to Israeli peace activists; and dismantling operations are, say the activists, a charade, even though an end to their expansion is a key feature of the US-backed road map to Middle East peace.

Since March 2001, when Ariel Sharon was elected prime minister, there has been a surge in settlement building. In addition to the 150 or so settlements authorized by the state (though illegal in international law), there are some 115 unlicensed outposts — and the number is growing almost daily, says Peace Now.

By placing settlements and outposts around the main Palestinian population centers, says Peace Now, Israel has gained control over nearly half the territory of the West Bank, including its vital water resources.

More Links, with UP TO DATE News:

Z-Net Middle East Watch
Middle East Report
AIC
One World
HRW
Amnesty International
Human Rights in Palestine
MERIP
The Foundation for Middle East Peace
The Institute for Policy Research & Development
Middle East Reference



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 12:50 PM
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8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

Although Israel is a Jewish country its leadership (prime ministers) has always been secular. In Iran the military is under the Ayatola's Control. Syria's military is under the Baath party's control which is an Alawi leadership which represents Syria's minority.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

Large corporations in Israel are actually foreign and those that are local were mostly government corporations that were privatized.


10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

Israel's workers union is very powerful and have called on general strikes many times in the past. I do not see this happening not in Iran or in Syria.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

Totally not Israel. Extremist left wing intellectuals teach in Hebrew University, Tel-Aviv university and Ben-Gurion university with many of them actually quoted by anti-Israeli Arab propagandists. Same is true for the US (Noam Chumpsky for example).
On the other hand anyone who speaks against the leadership in Syria and Iran is expected to 'slip in the shower' or something.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

Should we try to compare Iran's crime and punishment record to that of the US or Israel? Or Syria for that matter. I think it is obvious that those that hang homosexuals and arrest Jews because they are Jewish is -well facsist.


13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

All states are guilty of this. Fact is that in Israel corruption is investigated and those politicians are punished some even jailed (Gonen Segev, Arie Derhi, Omri Sharon). In Iran or Syria it doesn't even make the NEWS. Is it because there is no corruption - don't be naive. The corruption rating of Syria is way up there.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

I know 'BUSH in Ohio' or 'Bush in Florida'
In Syria there is a president for life and Iran has supreme leaders who are above all political elections so lets be fair - There is no comparison.

Thank you for bringing this article it made interesting reading and made me understand just HOW RIGHT I was.

Iran being the leading Islamic country truely validated my claim about ISLAMIFACSISM. Same is true for Syria, Hezbullah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Taliban regime - All facists.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 01:30 PM
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OK I see that you abandoned the FASCIST regime label and you are now using the Apartheid regime label. I guess I clearly proved that Islamofascist is a valid terms so now I will need to also prove that Apartheid lives and exists in Syria, Jordan, Egypt as well. OK - I will take you up on this in the next few days. I will not do this today though.

Regarding what you said about Palestinian control of their cities. Israel pretty much smashed the Palestinian authoriity after Yassir's goon squad launched its terrorisst offensive in 2000. Israel reoccupied many West Bank cities in order to crush a terrorist siege that till this day was not called off. your incapacity to admit that is unbelievable blind and is why I never take your Arab propaganda rhetoric seriously. Actually it makes me laugh to see that people can actually be so ignorant.

You can say for example - I now that the Palestinians engaged illegal acts of terrorism but I do not agree with what Israel is doing here and there. But no . . . your rhetoric makes it sound like the poor palestinans where one day attacked out of the blue. That attitude makes your whole arguement pointless.



posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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I really do not know, why do I even Bother to debate with you, because I know that you shall not accept even one word from the sources I provide, or the word that I write. For everything against Israel is considered Islamofascist and everybody who speaks openly against the state of Israel is for a Terrorist or a Fundamentalist or a Muslim - and I am neither. This just shows the narrow-minded view you are using to observe this planet. But I understand - a soldier in the IDF must not even consider something else, or to even think in the way, that I do. That would be considered a crime and you would probably go on a long trip to some secret detention camp owned by Mossad for a long vacation.

Now lets turn to your favourite Word:


Islamofascism

"Islamofascism is nothing but an empty propaganda term. And wartime propaganda is usually, if not always, crafted to produce hysteria, the destruction of any sense of proportion. Such words, undefined and unmeasured, are used by people more interested in making us lose our heads than in keeping their own."

So I label you a pure and puny PROPAGANDIST - using terms, which actually are not even real, to spread even more Fear and Phobia against an Entire Religion for you Agenda.

Actually this word, first being used by Bushies, is nothing but a "new buzzword" of the Neo-Con Hawks, who would really love everybody to start hating and fearing an entire Religion, so they can do whatever they want with the Middle East. And ofcourse, that is just water on the Israeli mill.


Islamic Fascists?

In just the past few months there has been a rash of articles and blog entries that bring up and expand upon the sad fact that Amin el-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem collaborated with Hitler during WWII. This comes at the same time as President Bush’s use of the term Islamic Fascists appearing to validate a term used over the last few years among those determined to provoke a clash of civilizations. Whether the sudden proliferation in the use of this term (or its’ variants - Islamo-Nazi, Islamo-Fascist, etc.) and the articles attempting to find some connection with Islam and the Nazis and Fascists is simply a case of extremists feeding off of each other in our world of almost instantaneous communication, or is due to a calculated campaign is debatable, but the end result is an increase in Islamophobia and mutual distrust. Such stereotyping all too often leads to a dehumanization of the “other” and has historically been the precursor to isolation, discrimination, and violence. Such descriptions also blur distinctions and create an atmosphere in which the “enemy” becomes most or all Muslims.

And I agree.

To use such combination of two words - Islam and Fascism - you are only spreading Isolation, Ignorance, Discrimination and Paranoia of an Religion; which was probably your ONLY reason to use it, so you can skip that crap about Iran, Syria and every other enemy of Israel being Fascist. But I have to admit it has a very good ring to it, and you bet it does bring out all the bad old memories of WWII, when Fascist ruled the Europe and did Horible things to the Jewish People.


1-0 in the propaganda war

Fascism is coming back into fashion, at least in the propaganda wars. For the right, it comes in the shape of a new word: "islamofascism". That conflates all the elements into one image: suicide bombs, kidnappings and the Qur'an; the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan; Iranian clerics and Hitler.

Actually the problem is, that the word Terrorists is not powerfull enough, since the majority of the People of this planet do not buy anymore of that bull - so the smart bushies had to come up with another word to spread fear of Islam; and what better way, then to re-cycle an old word of Fear, Destruction and Death; Fascism. Connect that to Islam and you have another perfect enemy of the so-called Free West. And the biggest problem is, that the Nazis and Fascists were predominantly Christians. The Christian connection with the Nazis and Fascists was widespread and well-documented - the Muslim connection to Nazis or Fascist is very minimal.

So yet again it does not make any sense - other then being a Tool of a puny and pathetic Propagandist, who wants to enflame even more Fear and Anger among People of this World, to start rising up and standing against a RELIGION - not a Country, or a Regime, but an Entire Religion! And I do not think you understand this very well.


Islamo-fascism: George Bush's Fallacy

I once heard a US historian remark that George W. Bush was in need of instruction in American and World History in a setting of psychotherapy. In yet another speech displaying severe historical psychopathy, George W. Bush insists we are at war with Islamo-Fascists. Italian historian and diplomat Sergio Romano sets him straight.


Today, the word, fascist, has lost its original meaning and simply signifies a violence and intoleranance and perhaps even a scoundrel. Many of those who use the term only have a vague notion of its meaning but have understood that it is an insult and therefore good for a verbal attacks by political figures. But when the President of the United States says that his country is at war against “Islamic Fascists” we must assume that he knows what he is talking about even if his declarations are often ambiguous.

But it would be very difficult for me to identify fascism in religiously inspired movements from the Muslim Brotherhood to those that following the Iranian Revolution, the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and the First Gulf War in 1991. Between the Ba’ath and religious fanaticism, even against a common enemy, there is an unfathomable divide. Standing apart from his predecessors, George Bush seems to have forgotten that the greatest enemy of Khomeini’s Iran was Saddam Hussein and during the long war between the two countries, from 1980 to 1988, the United States was on the side of the fascists against the Islamists.

You Juddah - are just another Islamophobic, nothing more, nothing less; with an Agenda of prejudice against or demonization of Muslims which manifests itself in general negative attitudes, violence, harassment, discrimination, and stereotyping.



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