Originally posted by VelvetSplash
One thing that's always interested me is how, as I child I always read/was told, that the Gods in Roman/Greek mythology, where the stories' characters match constellations, that these Gods were made into stars in the sky, and that's why the constellations are named after them.

That's correct.

Given that many ancient cultures put so much faith in the Heavens and the movements of the stars and planets, that it would make more sense to look at it the other way round, and say that the Gods were named after the constellations, not the other way around, and thus their respective mythologies are allegories for the movements and relationships that stellar objects have, in relation to each other viewed here from Earth.

The ones that seem to be named "before the fact" are those that are associated with non-gods. "There's a group of stars that look like a wagon, so, see, that's actually Thor's wagon." But making a god out of a pattern in the sky... no. There's no evidence this ever happened.

Very few constellations were named after gods. Planets usually were, but not constellations.

Thank you Marduk for the extensive information.

OK, Byrd, back to Venus.

Let's do simple. If Venus is called the Light Bringer/Bearer and if it heralds the way for the sun, coming before it each day, then what could that mean?

In some cultures it's seen as two different objects; a morning star and an evening star, and the people had no notion it was the same planet.

yep damn that Pythagoras for noticing
all the directions in the myths made sense up until that point

Byrd, nice read about the Mithric relationship with a torchbearer.
I recall that Paul of Taurus was of the Mithric tradition until his "conversion" to Christianity. Also were the three wise men who attending the birth of "Christ"
Also the mention of the Eucharist is worth following up on.

The part about the two Gods having supper together may be about the marriage of Mithrism and Christianity (or Judism).

I know it has been said around here alot lately but I didn't get just how true it is. Christianity as I know it IS a sun worshipping religon. Unbeknownst of course to most of it's followers.

I hope this thread can remain active for a while I have suddenly become pretty intrigued by Venus symbology and meaning of such. My daughter happened to mention something today about Venus entering Virgo today. How appropriate for the discussion. I wish I had the reference but I remember a few years back reading about a "gate" or "portal" Venus based opening.

The statue of Liberty hold a torch, as do many logos incorporate the torch into their
vision, of course the Olympics are over the top with the whole torch thing!

Lucifer as the light bearer heralds Christ the Sun on a daily basis.

For the Masons, I know my mother says when she was a kid she was in the "Job's Daughters" and then the "Eastern Stars" I noticed reading Byrd's reference that Venus was referred to as the first star in the east. Also her Mother had a ring that was as a pentagram with different gemstones at each point of the star with the insignia of the compass and square in the middle.

Ok, another idea about Venus as the torchbearer.

What about Prometheus stealing fire from the gods and bringing it to humanity. Could Venus as Lucifer have stolen fire from God to use to play God here on earth? With that in my his/her minor light as a star dashing across the sky followed by the sun which carries the living fire would be dwarfed.

I wonder if stolen Light/Fire has life or if it is like reflected light.

And a torchbearer can be likened to a trail blazer and a trail blazer burns through something to create a trail, or a place for something to travel through.

I wish someone would help with the Venus mystery.

I really wish someone would participate in this thread. I don't want it to die. Won't any of the Masonic defenders even respond to what I posted about the Eastern Star organization for the females?

Marduk! You surprised me about the flood! I asked you for some help regarding the word flood used in the link you provided since the word is used lavishly and bolded and you talked a bit about floods, but gave no clue about it's use in the 29 pages. Oh my! It is all about sexual desire and is it ever! I felt it!

Originally posted by interestedalways
Ok, another idea about Venus as the torchbearer.

What about Prometheus stealing fire from the gods and bringing it to humanity. Could Venus as Lucifer have stolen fire from God to use to play God here on earth?

No.

We have a very good picture of what they believed and what stories they told about their gods. We have a lot of books on Roman philosophy. So the answer to that is "no."

Originally posted by interestedalways
Byrd, nice read about the Mithric relationship with a torchbearer.
I recall that Paul of Taurus was of the Mithric tradition until his "conversion" to Christianity.

Pharasee, I believe. He was Jewish.

The part about the two Gods having supper together may be about the marriage of Mithrism and Christianity (or Judism).

No, it predates that. It may be a blending of an older religion with Mithrism, yes, but not Judaism or Christianity.

I know it has been said around here alot lately but I didn't get just how true it is. Christianity as I know it IS a sun worshipping religon. Unbeknownst of course to most of it's followers.

It adopted local deities as saints and local holidays as Church holidays and some local symbols. But it's not a solar religion. It just borrowed from them in order to win converts.

I hope this thread can remain active for a while I have suddenly become pretty intrigued by Venus symbology and meaning of such. My daughter happened to mention something today about Venus entering Virgo today. How appropriate for the discussion. I wish I had the reference but I remember a few years back reading about a "gate" or "portal" Venus based opening.

Ah, astrology. Yes, Venus enters each sign once per year and goes both forward and retrograde. Astrolgers are prone to announcing "enlightenment era" or "gates opening" and so forth... I can't count how many times they did it last century, but during the 60's, it seemed we had these announcements on an almost weekly basis. You got a bit weary of it after awhile.

The statue of Liberty hold a torch, as do many logos incorporate the torch into their
vision, of course the Olympics are over the top with the whole torch thing!

But, as Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Lucifer as the light bearer heralds Christ the Sun on a daily basis.

An interesting take for a Christian view, but I don't think it's something that they would be comfortable with. Maybe "flees before the sun"... though anthropomorphizing the planets and solar system is not to modern tastes.

For the Masons, I know my mother says when she was a kid she was in the "Job's Daughters" and then the "Eastern Stars" I noticed reading Byrd's reference that Venus was referred to as the first star in the east. Also her Mother had a ring that was as a pentagram with different gemstones at each point of the star with the insignia of the compass and square in the middle.

Ask your mom.

The Masonic symbolism is very heavily Christian (wth a mystical angle), and their rituals (although technically "sort of" non-specific) incorporate a lot of Christian symbolism in them. Your family will be glad to give you more information on this.

Byrd I can't ask my family as they are "estranged" except for my mother who shook the cobwebs out of her memory banks to come up with the information she did. The childhood experience left no lasting impression on her and my conversation with her over a period of time is what brought forth what I described.

In Nothing We Trust Good find on the Venus hit for 2012. I think you are correct in alot of what you say, even though you do tend to push buttons at times!

Venus and the Sun facing each other, alone. Hmmmmmm.

As far as Astrology, it was never a big interest of mine, but I am finding the subjects therein to be major keys to unlock mysteries.

I was reading something on the Lucis Trust website that told stories of Hercules and his trials and tribulations through each of the 12 Zodaical Interpetations of lessons of life.

The story likened him to being a torchbearer.

A torchbearer must symbolize bringing light where there was none.

I could see how Venus could be Christ.

Originally posted by interestedalways
In Nothing We Trust Good find on the Venus hit for 2012. I think you are correct in alot of what you say, even though you do tend to push buttons at times!

I'm not one to mix words.

Sometimes people just don't like to hear what I have to say.

Well, no one has any ideas to share?

How about the torch bearer, or the Morning Star, Venus having to do with the Pineal Gland and the Light to access the Light. Maybe the Light that activates the Pineal Gland in the Dark of the Mind provides a bridge or path to the Light of the Sun/Son or Lucifer or Christ.

> And heres a picture of Venus making its pentagram in the sky

So Venus do make a pentagram in the sky. It was not one of the things from 'the Da Vinci Code' (Dan Brown) I took seriously. So is the pentagram then indeed a symbol for the Goddess or women as claimed by this book?

Ghaele where is the pic?

Thanks for responding