Masons exposed by French media on Clearstream

Originally posted by rougevif

As i said previously in the post, i am living on the other side of the planet so i cannot post 24/7 and i also work...i am glad you are systematically posting after me which means you are closely following what i am saying and you thoroughly make sure i can t post the last one.

I am not insulting the masons, i am severely criticising their objectives.

i think it is funny you would defend the masons systematically...but this is your right. I live in a country where this is forbidden to be a mason so i let you figure out which one...hehehe.

you can also condition yourself on this site www.disney.com

see you next post i suppose...

Although you are picking and choosing which posts to answer to. You are conducting a 'conversation' with one person on this thread but completely ignoring me on another. Please explain. Is it because I am demanding some form of back-up to the spurious and ludicrous claims that have been made by you from a book which you seem unable to quote from?

Good post Rougevif,

Thank you for keeping us updated with what happens on the other side of the world.

dear fellows,

i am glad you find my post interesting sometimes. i am going to give you another good book you might read, this is called:

societe secrete au 20eme siecle
fron Jan van Helsing

of course forbidden in most of european countries... this is about the thule and Vril society including an excellent analyse of the sumerian civilization and bringing new hypothesis.

i am sure you are clever enough to put your hand on it.

as this author says and i fully agree 90 percent of the masons are not aware of the goals of their leaders. i know it hurts the mind. don t worry happened to me as well when i realised that pope Leon X was selling tickets to the "paradise"...just to mention this.

Originally posted by rougevif
as this author says and i fully agree 90 percent of the masons are not aware of the goals of their leaders.

You know, I just realized you could save yourself alot of hassel by naming these so called "leaders" of Freemasonry. Considering a leadership does not exist to pull the wool over the eyes of 90% of a membership, it is difficult to believe that this happens. It seems your author did not do his homework on the basic structure of Freemasonry.

So, out with it, who are they? And don't tell me that you don't know, for that is the most anti-mason typecast copout ever. Really, throw out some names and let's discuss and analyze these potential "leaders". For without these names, this theory is sunk completely. The real evidence, you know, the stuff that can be referenced as FACt, it seems to say there is no leadership in Freemasonry; all the way back to the original charter.

i think you are just great.

no leaders...no roots...then what do you believe in...or what idea are you giving to others about free masonry...

anyway...i think everybody will have notice anytime i post something you are systematically after me.

what is your opnion on the MK ultra? paperclip? projects...

do you thik henry kissinger was a good man?

have you ever heard about pike? crowley? russel? hubbard? just to name these.

Originally posted by rougevif

i think you are just great.

no leaders...no roots...then what do you believe in...or what idea are you giving to others about free masonry...

anyway...i think everybody will have notice anytime i post something you are systematically after me.

what is your opnion on the MK ultra? paperclip? projects...

do you thik henry kissinger was a good man?

have you ever heard about pike? crowley? russel? hubbard? just to name these.

Man, that's the slickest dodge I've seen since I sold my '68 Charger.

Why won't you just answer the question? Why do you change the subject by talking about MK Ultra? Why do you bring up Crowley, Russell, Kissinger, and Hubbard? None of them were even Masons, much less Masonic leaders.

Pike was a Masonic leader, and most of us are quite proud of him. What's your point? Do you even have one?

[edit on 8-9-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Why won't you just answer the question? Why do you change the subject by talking about MK Ultra? Why do you bring up Crowley, Russell, Kissinger, and Hubbard? None of them were even Masons, much less Masonic leaders.

He doesn't answer questions because he can't. He has no answers. Consequently his arguments are about as effective as a chocolate fireguard

Hi , is it me or am I going nuts. Its seems to me that if one posts anything about masons then they get slammed by fellow followers. If indeed the information is faulty should not the Moderators take actions to either remove the post for false information or U2 the person posting telling them that there information lacks credibility. Do the moderators believe one side or the other, hence I can not say, but to let them, meaning fellows of the craft jump all over the poster is wrong and I think someone should step in and do something. Maybe both are right. Maybe, as I say we need to cool with the blasting and make sure our comments are wise and valid. Its up to the reader to beware I guess and do there own homework. But, like I said to constantly blast posters gives them more credibility don’t you think. Many Blessings.

Originally posted by zman
Hi , is it me or am I going nuts. Its seems to me that if one posts anything about masons then they get slammed by fellow followers. If indeed the information is faulty should not the Moderators take actions to either remove the post for false information or U2 the person posting telling them that there information lacks credibility. Do the moderators believe one side or the other, hence I can not say, but to let them, meaning fellows of the craft jump all over the poster is wrong and I think someone should step in and do something. Maybe both are right. Maybe, as I say we need to cool with the blasting and make sure our comments are wise and valid. Its up to the reader to beware I guess and do there own homework. But, like I said to constantly blast posters gives them more credibility don’t you think. Many Blessings.

I don't see it as we're jumping all over people. Indeed, when someone comes here making ridiculous and libelous claims about us, is it not we who are being "jumped on". But when we defend ourselves, our detractors then accuse us of "ganging up" on them.

There's nothing wrong with honest disagreement, but the problem with the majority of anti-Masons is they rarely keep it honest. I have no problem at all with someone who is opposed to Freemasonry for real and honest reasons, and just chalk it up to a difference of opinion.

Originally posted by rougevif

i think you are just great.

Thank you.

no leaders...no roots...then what do you believe in...or what idea are you giving to others about free masonry...

I don't understand how my beliefs have anything to do with the facts of basic Masonic structure. There is no leadership so as to promote a stronger sense of unity and brotherhood, and also to keep things like those masons are accused of all the time from happening. The idea I am giving to other non-masons like myself about Freemasonry is that they should do their homework and study the facts, not the speculation before making an educated decision on what it is truly about.

There, I've answered your question, it is only polite that you answer the one I posted before to you:
You've accused masons of not knowing the intentions of their leadership, what and who might that be?

anyway...i think everybody will have notice anytime i post something you are systematically after me.

No, I believe everyone will notice that you are the only one making an argument, thereby becoming the only one to address. No one is attacking you, though I believe these constant "hit and cry repression" tactics speak quite a bit about your character. I find it rude that you post questions, have them answered in a calm and logical manner, and then refuse to answer those posted to you.

what is your opnion on the MK ultra? paperclip? projects...

My opinion is that it was a horrible and vile act perpetrated by our CIA in order to create a better truth serum, as well as alter individual concious thought for the purpose of national advantage during the cold war. What has this to do with Freemasons? Is the implication that they were behind it? See below:

Headed by Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, MKULTRA was started on the order of CIA director Allen Dulles on April 13, 1953[5], largely in response to alleged Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean use of mind-control techniques on U.S. prisoners of war in Korea.[6] The CIA wanted to use similar methods on their own captives. The CIA was also interested in being able to manipulate foreign leaders with such techniques[7], and would later invent several schemes to drug Fidel Castro.

In 1964, the project was renamed MKSEARCH. The project attempted to produce a perfect truth drug for use in interrogating suspected Soviet spies during the Cold War, and generally to explore any other possibilities of mind control.

Because most of the MKULTRA records were deliberately destroyed in 1972 by order of the Director at that time, Richard Helms, it is impossible to have a complete understanding of the more than 150 individually funded research projects sponsored by MKULTRA and related CIA programs.

Dr. Sidney Gottlieb approved of an MKULTRA subproject on '___' in this June 9, 1953 letter.Experiments were often conducted without the subjects' knowledge or consent

Please point out the Masonic control here.

do you thik henry kissinger was a good man?

The man helped put an end to the Vietnam war, as well as open up good foreign relations with China during his time with the Nixon administration. I find this admirable. Do I agree with the policies and methods by which certain results were obtained, no. The man had a complete disregard for the value of a human life if it was not American, I find this dispicable. However, keep in mind that even President Kennedy employed the mafia to achieve certain ends for the good of the country. Not that I am in any way comparing the two, only that a point needs to be seen for the greater impact these men had for the political and economic success of our country.
Still, I don't believe Kissinger was a Mason, what is his role in this discussion?

have you ever heard about pike? crowley? russel? hubbard? just to name these.

Yes, again, all but one are not Masons. I apologize, but I fail to see your point, please explain.

dear sir,

i have no interest in discussing in particular except in U2U, kissinger was the most devasting man of the US government...apart from another one anyone can easily refer to by themselves. you apparently are not a mason or not informed about them.

kissinger was one such as the above mentionned. but as you are not one, there is not way you are going to defend them ever and ever right.

you deny ignorance...then explain what they are doing in the montauk park or below it at the moment...

have you read about o'brien, al bielek? you should this is higly instructive

Unfortunately, you are seeing a causality across group lines...

Let's say that a Man belongs to a Group. He also has a Job.

In that Job, he does some Things. Those Things, later in history, are deemed to be bad/unproductive/counterproductive.

You are seeing these Things as done by a Man in a Group. Thusly, those Things align with the goals and ideals of the Group.

Isn't it possible that the Man was simply doing what he thought was good/appropriate for his Job? What does the Group have to do with it.

Or, in summary... I don't drive a red car because Masons like red cars.

Originally posted by rougevif
You fall alot

Don't follow, please explain this.

i have no interest in discussing in particular except in U2U

That is your perogative. However, it kind of defeats the purpose of a discussion forum, don't you think?

kissinger was the most devasting man of the US government...apart from another one anyone can easily refer to by themselves.

I'm not here for your political opinions. That is another forum entirely, of which I do not participate. Reason being, politics are not something you can change someone's mind about, no matter how you try or what you may think. To each his own.

you apparently are not a mason or not informed about them.

I have stated repeatedly that I am not a mason, you just aren't paying attention. I am, however, very informed about them, and by the most reliable source possible-Freemasons. However "informed" you seem to find yourself, you may want to check your source; you're being fed a bad line. Sour to the core.

kissinger was one such as the above mentionned. but as you are not one, there is not way you are going to defend them ever and ever right.

Alright, after struggling through your choice of grammer, I think I understand what you are saying. My question is, if YOU are not a Mason, then how can you argue that one must BE a mason to understand what you are saying?
Also, the "above" mason you are referring to said that Kissinger was NOT a Mason, not the other way around. Pike is the one we all admit to being a member. Still, I don't see why that is a big deal?
Explain to me again why it is that I have to be a Mason to defend them? You don't seem to have to be a Mason to senselessly attack them.

you deny ignorance...then explain what they are doing in the montauk park or below it at the moment...

Do you think I was there? I have no idea what goes on, or rather what you people seem to think goes on there.

have you read about o'brien, al bielek? you should this is higly instructive

I have, here is a site that you may find highly educational. I find it an interesting story at best.
]Montauk and Al Bielek
Education requires attaining knowledge. There is no knowledge to be found there, only speculation. Your problem is that you interpret too many things as fact before really taking the time to look into them. As I said, this is all very interesting, however, lacking in anything whatsoever to do with Freemasonry. You want to discuss Montauk and the Philidelphia Experiment, go right ahead, but find the proper forum. We would rather you stick to the subject at hand here. None of this has anything to do with Freemasonry

these threads used to get me mad...now, all i hear is that noise charlie brown would hear when in the classroom, when the teacher spoke to him. WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP.

Originally posted by zman
Hi , is it me or am I going nuts. Its seems to me that if one posts anything about masons then they get slammed by fellow followers.

This is a discussion site. The OP is making some claims, and some people, including some masons, are questioning those claims, rather than credulously accepting them.

If indeed the information is faulty should not the Moderators take actions to either remove the post for false information

The site terms and conditions do not require that a person be correct, only that they not purposely lie.

or U2 the person posting telling them that there information lacks credibility.

Telling people that their information lacks credibility is the job of membership.

Do the moderators believe one side or the other,

Of course, moderators are people and are entitled to their own opinions, different moderators have different opinions. But thats irrelevant, because the moderators aren't here to dictate who is correct and what is factually true.

but to let them, meaning fellows of the craft jump all over the poster is wrong

If a person comes here and makes claims, they'd damned well better be prepared to defend them.

this is wh ywe need moderator...to put order.

legitimatelly the masons can contest me or what i am saying neverthelesss the fact remains.

should i gave a bibliography again?

still wondering why there is a 555 feet obelisk in the center of DC. this is not exactlely Assouan right? neither patis london or Hong kong.

speak with you soon.

your ray of light...no...the good one

Originally posted by rougevif
this is wh ywe need moderator...to put order.

Order to what? You believe a civil conversation to be chaotic? Are you crying suppression again?

"Help help, I'm being repressed!"
(not directed entirely at you, by the way, just an appropriate quote from a classic)

legitimatelly the masons can contest me or what i am saying neverthelesss the fact remains.

As opposed to illegitimate contestation, which is what we've seen from you in almost every post thus far. "Nevertheless, your lack of facts remains."

should i gave a bibliography again?

I'd rather be spared, thank you. Your opinions have been well understood and catalogued.

still wondering why there is a 555 feet obelisk in the center of DC. this is not exactlely Assouan right? neither patis london or Hong kong.

You know, there was a gentleman called hexrain that I got into a lengthy discussion with regarding this same issue. Tell me, do you believe the Masons are controlling people's minds with the Washington Monument as well? Or does Geomancy not yet fit into your discovery of the "truth" yet?

As refering to your last post, i do believe the governments are involved in mind control program like MK ultra or montauk (those in NJ can try to go in montauk park to laugh...LOL) these result of the horrendous transposition of paperclip for germany after WWII.

of course i am not blaming the masons but it seems they are powerful with obelisks all over the places. i am not sure wether the resonance of this monument is strong but i am sure of its measure as something not so feng-shui 555 feet.

please share your thoughts on this fellow members...

i am sure some people are making great use of free-mason organisations for charity. but the manipulation at the top is frightening...beiing graduated from an Ivy league one, i know what i am talking about.

there is something new every week in the news. now this is about the assissination of Edouard Stern but i am not sure you are getting access easily to french-swiss media.

the funniest one is about the collision of the two planes...over amazon forrest...even better than the TWA flight 800.

i love ATS so much....i advise the readers to go to the katrina part...this is the craziest Sh... i have ever read....
cheerio.