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caves under a church in Los Angeles?

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posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 12:12 AM
According to Branton, there is a tunnel entrance under the Church of the Angels (de los angeles) in Pasadena, a county in the city of Los Angeles. (It has a website, if you're curious)
Can anyone shed light on this subject/? Do any of you chaps attend there, or live close by?

posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 10:07 AM
The sources I find on this (like Burlington news) are all repeating mixed up legends and tales from magazines like "Old Western Prospector" (which printed fiction.)

This appears to be the gist of the story you're talking about

In the old Spanish Garavanza district or Los Angeles, where Avenue 64 and York Boulevard now lie, there used to be a ranch owned by Ralph Rodgers who had employed several Mexican and Chinese workers. In early 1900, Andrew C. Smith and Charles A. Elder discovered a rumored tunnel entrance in the area and reported it to the local newspaper, whose editor confirmed their story. They explored the tunnel to some depth. They also learned from a Mexican elder of a native American village that existed on the banks of the Arroyo Seco River. When the Spanish entered the area this man, Juan Dominquez, had explored the tunnel "leading to a gigantic cave and then still going further down", spreading under the entire village of Garavanza and connecting to the Spanish Church of the Angels on North Avenue 64. One entrance was reportedly located along the west bluff of Arroyo Seco River about 300 feet south of the former Pasadena Ave. Rail Bridge, and about 20 feet above the stream, but the city "blew up" the entrance after children were hurt in the cave, and a Freeway exists now in the area, however a secret opening still exists in the basement of the Spanish church mentioned above. Early visitors to the cave had reported "many caverns and tunnels going deep down, with eerie voices coming from them." The cave used to be used by natives for ritual purposes.

I do remember seeing the news story, but the details point to it being fiction.:
* Mexicans were never elders of Native California tribes. (The Hahamog-na tribe (and Tvonga speaking tribes) were probably enslaved by the owners of the Rancho del Rincon de San Pascual land grant -- but they weren't Mexican.) They didn't have rituals involving caves.
* There's undoubtedly small caves and rock shelters in the area, but this area is EXTREMELY earthquake prone. The chances of a huge cave surviving one of the frequent large earthquakes (like the one in Los Angeles at the beginning of the 20th century) are zero.
* I don't seem to find a listing for that church on 64th st

posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 12:26 PM
it sounds like the plot from a Zorro movie
where does Don Diego de la Vega fit into all this

posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 01:34 PM

No, the church is there. You can search for 'churchoftheangels" and find a website, with directions/location. I think I've driven past it once when I was up there. Its at least 120 years old. And like I said, I don't know anything about the area, or even where to look for an entrance if there was one. The church DOES have a basement....but I doubt the rector would tell me anything about a tunnel if there was one.

posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 03:02 PM

The Church of the Angels is located in Pasadena at 1100 Avenue 64, between Colorado Boulevard on the north and York Boulevard on the south.

From the 134 freeway, take the San Rafael - Linda Vista exit, go briefly south on San Rafael, then west on Colorado. From the 110 Pasadena freeway, take the Avenue 64 - Marmion Way exit and proceed north on Avenue 64.

The link will take you to their web page.

posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 04:06 PM
There is a good likelihood of this being some sort of crypt. A few years ago, an effort to save a crumbling church in Lucina uncovered archaeological discoveries going back to the second century.

It was then decided to clear the space beneath the floor. This work, from 1982 to 1987, was supervised by Maria Elena Bertoldi, who presented the results in the Bollettino di archeologia in 1992. The rests of buildings from the second century onwards which were excavated beneath the church have little or nothing to do with the Horologium, because in the early second century, the ground level was raised in the Horologium area. The excavation uncovered rests of the fifth century basilica, of the third century insula and two parts of buildings from the second century, perhaps belonging to the same building. These second century rests were a room with a mosaic and rests of a painted wall beneath the apse of the church. In 1987, the excavations were consolidated with brick walls.

Granted, this would not be on as grand a level, I'm sure, considering the lack of occupancy this area might have had during those times, aside from Native Americans, but it does seem likely.
There is also the possibility of the passage's involvement in the underground railroad.

Many of the abolitionists endorsed a clandestine movement to help the African slave achieve freedom. Some significant clues of the Underground Railroad included well defined hidden routes and following the bright north star during the night, as well as certain "stations" - where a light in the window would be an indicator of a safe home used as a slave hideaway. Some slaves were hidden in barns or behind secret wall passages in these homes. The leader who knew the way was called the "conductor." The "station masters" were in most cases free people of color or wealthy white benefactors who provided food, shelter, or money along the way for the escaping runaways. The most profoundly skilled and successful "conductor" of the Underground Railroad was Harriet Tubman. She was credited with leading over 300 runaways to freedom with a total of 19 trips through the south. It was later stated that she never lost a "passenger" on these risky escape routes. The Underground Railroad, from 1800 up until the end of 1865, assisted more than 40,000 slaves to freedom up north and into Canada. Raymond Bial's book, The Underground Railroad, published in 1995, depicted the essence both in text and with superb pictures of those mystical hidden passageways which made up the Underground Railroad.


If you are right in your dating, the modern standing church would have been built around 1887, give or take. The 15th ammendment was ratified in 1870, but before that was a very bumpy road indeed. If the passages were a part of the Underground Railroad, it might have made sense to have something "unquestionable" sitting above it, such as a church. The one that stands now may have been just a remodel, or expansion of a church that sat there earlier, or perhaps even the house of a sympathetic family aiding in the cause until 1865 or so. Either possibility is valid, I suppose.

posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 04:20 PM
Do you have any idea how a slave would have to travel just to get to L.A. in those days? Death Valley and the other deserts were not especially easy to travel by wagon or horse.

Caves can survive earthquakes because the most movement is found on the plains areas toward the surface, which is why you are actually safer underground during an earthquake than above.

posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 11:01 PM
all the same, i'm still going to the church some sunday this fall, and i'll try and get into the basement and/or find out where this story came from. i'll keep you posted

posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 12:48 AM

Originally posted by 2stepsfromtop
Do you have any idea how a slave would have to travel just to get to L.A. in those days? Death Valley and the other deserts were not especially easy to travel by wagon or horse.

I never said they were trying to get to California from somewhere else.

Although California was admitted to the Union in 1850 as a free state, most residents turned a blind eye to slavery and it was allowed to continue relatively unhampered for quite some time. The city of Sacramento, in fact, held public slave auctions, although a growing movement of abolitionism moved slaves through the Underground Railroad-usually north toward British Columbia.

posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 11:26 AM
Eden makes some interesting points, and offers some to consider -- crypt is, I think most likely.

Most of you aren't aware of it, but the American Indians ("mexicans") were slaves in California. During this particular time, there was a genocide policy ( by the government of California) to get rid of the tribes. This is not in one of the gold mining areas, but the Indians were an inconvenience to the Americans.

However, I don't think the Church offered them refuge from slavery or hid them from being rounded up and sent to reservations.

The relative newness of the building is also another indicator. It survived the Great Earthquake... if there had been tunnels present, everyone would have found them in the rubble. You can't keep that kind of discovery hushed up.

posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Byrd
Most of you aren't aware of it, but the American Indians ("mexicans") were slaves in California. During this particular time, there was a genocide policy ( by the government of California) to get rid of the tribes. This is not in one of the gold mining areas, but the Indians were an inconvenience to the Americans.


American Indians and "Mexica"ns are different tribes bucko. The slavery and big genocide was initiated by the Spanish Missionaries and Land Grant holders when they traveled north from mexico and siezed control of California under the auspices of the Pope of the Church of Rome who had expressed the authority to divide the new world between Spain and Portugal.

Jeez Byrd, I thought you were better at getting your facts straight.

posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 10:26 AM
there has been a concerted effort to

to lie , by "the system" for quite some time,

of omitting info and being deceptive

about anomalies to the general public.

and that is the truth behind the fear

of going public by many who uncover

anomalies .

if you are unaware of this , I'm sorry.

don't blame me , I didn't do it.

just do a search on ANOMALIES

and such , nose around a bit to

get the feel of it . you'll see

for yourself what I am talking about.

and FICTION ? perhaps. and

maybe that fiction was based on a true

story that could not be proven

for various reasons !


[edit on 12-9-2006 by toasted]

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