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Why UFO's cant exist

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posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 12:40 AM
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Shamanator, do you know or understand anything about SR and GR (Special and General Relativity) or Quantum Physics?? I don't think you do, from the looks of your comments that you've made in this thread. You've summised some things being partially correct, but that's about it. That's typical of the misunderstanding most people in the public have of many scientific theories. You haven't studied them or you don't have the intelligence to understand them fully. In some cases, you've been fed misinformation, because you weren't considered knowledgeable enough to understand them fully. Why do you think most scientists tell people things in a simple manner....... because they wouldn't be able to follow most of the work that they do. The math and even the descriptive matter of most theories is beyond most people's understanding. That's why so many people get things "twisted" when they try and argue about things they don't really know anything about. Or, only know what they've been told.

In any case, what science we know now will be superceded in the future. What we know now will more than likely be considered rather quaint in 100 years time. Just as we think of the science from 100 years ago as being quaint. Relativity is not the be all and end all of science. It'll be replaced just as surely as it superseded Newtonian physics.




posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by GhostITM
Shamanator, do you know or understand anything about SR and GR (Special and General Relativity) or Quantum Physics?? I don't think you do, from the looks of your comments that you've made in this thread. You've summised some things being partially correct, but that's about it. That's typical of the misunderstanding most people in the public have of many scientific theories. You haven't studied them or you don't have the intelligence to understand them fully. In some cases, you've been fed misinformation, because you weren't considered knowledgeable enough to understand them fully. Why do you think most scientists tell people things in a simple manner....... because they wouldn't be able to follow most of the work that they do. The math and even the descriptive matter of most theories is beyond most people's understanding. That's why so many people get things "twisted" when they try and argue about things they don't really know anything about. Or, only know what they've been told.

In any case, what science we know now will be superceded in the future. What we know now will more than likely be considered rather quaint in 100 years time. Just as we think of the science from 100 years ago as being quaint. Relativity is not the be all and end all of science. It'll be replaced just as surely as it superseded Newtonian physics.


Just to Satisfy others what I am saying is correct here are a couple of links on the subject.



One of the most striking aspects of special relativity is that faster than light travel is equivalent to time travel. This is also one of the most widely understood aspects of the theory, and almost every explanation I've seen of the effects of superluminal travel on causality has been badly garbled. In this article, I will try to explain it more clearly.


Source



If one were able to move information or matter from one point to another faster than light, then according to special relativity, there would be an observer who sees this transfer as allowing information or matter to travel into the past. Additionally, faster than light travel along suitable paths would correspond to travel backward in time as seen by all observers. This results simply from the geometry of spacetime and the role of the speed of light in that geometry. However, traveling faster than light only exists in theory because it breaks the laws of physics and is thus impossible


Source

Maybe you should do a bit of brushing up on it since you do claim to be a scientist it couldnt hurt any.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
added 'ex' tags





[edit on 2/12/06 by masqua]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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Sham, I know I said I was going to ignore you, but I changed my mind.

Again you are using human knowledge in an attempt to debunk something alien. Do you know what level of tech existed on Earth saaaaaay about 150 years ago? Do you see how much progress we have nade in tech ove the last 200 years or so?
Imagine where we will be in 5000 years.. Did you know that all the planet in the universe didn't "begin" at the same time? What about an Alien race thats millions ofyears more advanced? I bet "scientists" from 250 years ago would've stated as a fact that man will never fly....... How about the smartest men on the planet saying that a rocket wont work in a vacuum in the early days of the space program? When trains were invented "scientists" thought that if it went faster than 25 mph, all the air would be sucked out of the passengers lungs, suffocating them.

My point is you can NOT use our prmitive theories about mass and energy and faster than light travel when talking about a more advanced race. Besides, our main theories are just that, theories. We won't know for sure untill we actually can travel faster than light. A lesser advanced species just CAN NOT understand. We are tool using monkies compared to anyone that may be visiting this planet. Try going to the zoo and explaining to the great apes(probably the smartest animal in the zoo and closest to us genetically) why you wear pants. No matter how much you try to explain , they will NOT understand, even if you tried explaining it to KOKO, an ape that can understand sign language. They are simply unable to understand.



P.S. You're absolute closed-mindedness combined with EVERY single post you've made on ATS have convinced me you're a paid dis-info agent.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by Tiloke]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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7 pages of posts and debate and I still can't see why ufo's can't exist.



No one can prove UFO's are real, No one can prove that thier not!

No one can prove that God is real, No one can prove that he is not!

Lets agree to disagree.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Shamanator

So far this thread has a lot of people claiming I am wrong and a TROLL yet not one has given any real evidence because there isn't any and never will be EVER. Photoshopped pictures of birds and planes don't cut it.

I believe there are people who do believe they have seen a UFO but what have they really seen "lights in the sky, a shooting star, a planet, a satelitte , a strange looking military plane, the list can go on and on. Seriously there is no evidence at all just exagerated storys and delusions.

I like the way everyone tells me i must provide evidence of something not existing that's crazy how can anyone prove that "invisible ninja elfs that walk around doing handstands" dont exist but anyone with a shred of common sense can see that is a crazy idea.

Life in the universe I accept is a tiny possibility but simple physics says we will never meet even if the ALIENS were advanced enough to get into space like ourselves.


Tell me what the Belgian Airforce was chasing in 1990 that outran two F-16 fighters as shown here.

Belgian UFO

Please make sure you read the whole article, as I think it may cover some of your "arguments".



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
I know a lot of people here believe in UFO's and Aliens like a religion which really is a pity in this day and age. The truth is there are no such things of course why are the people who see UFO's always mentally unstable if there were "REAL" aliens don't you think they would contact smart people like Stephen hawking and George Bush.

Here are the reasons why UFO's are not real

1:: They are always seen by people who are drunk and or drugs and never by intelligent people

2:: All Aliens that are seen look the same proving a mass delusion (or more likely baby memorys of seeing their mother before their eyesight is developed) please see this link www.badastronomy.com... for unrefuteable proof

3:: The distance between stars is light years and if any aliens developed travel fast enough theyd end up going faster than light and end up back in time.

4:: Why are there so many hoaxes like the famous roswell hoax.

5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.

First of all I have seen more than 1 UFO and I was not drunk or on drugs.. in fact I have never "done" a drug in my life other than over the counter pain killers etc.. and prescribed drugs like anti-biotics. And I happen to have a rather high IQ btw.. so don't call ME ignorant.

Second.. UFO does not mean alien craft it means unidentified flying object. Now you really showed your level of intelligience with sweeping the term in general in this thread with only objects of supposed alien origin. That is not what the term means.

Third What makes you think that you know every concievable scientific way for beings to travel across space and time. Our scientists today are STILL learning more that they didnt know just a few years ago. Your 3rd statement once again just shows how little you know and how much you assume.

Fourth.. you have no proof roswell was a hoax or not. Unless of course you were a part of the hoax. Where is your proof? Or are you again going on what you have been told?


Finally.. One could say you are gullible for believing blindly in the bible to begin with.
What proof do you have that it is not a work of fiction? And if you say because it has events that can be proven happened in it.. I will remind you that several works of fiction include real events that are dramatized for entertainment or other purposes.
Much of what you will read in the Davinci Code can be proven to be a real life fact .. but it does not make the story as a whole true. You have no proof beyond the word of your local clergy who have no proof either.

Who is the gullible one really?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:36 AM
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I am not going to argue here. I am going to be very blunt.
The person who made this potic is quite stupid & I feel no remorse for disrespecting him.
If this site would allow kantankerous behaviour, I would behave like that.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by sdrawkcab
I am not going to argue here. I am going to be very blunt.
The person who made this potic is quite stupid & I feel no remorse for disrespecting him.
If this site would allow kantankerous behaviour, I would behave like that.


I too, once thought as you, young padawan. I decided it would be better to try to enage him in intelligent debate though. Its more in spirit with the values of ATS.....

Some in this theead told me "he can post whatever he wants" and they were right. If I don't want to read it I won't. If i feel his posts don't even warrent a response than I wont.





[edit on 13-9-2006 by Tiloke]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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Wow, I can't belief people spend 7 pages on this nonsense




smart people like Stephen hawking and George Bush


and



5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.




There goes your credibility. Sorry man I shouldnt judge you but DEAR FREAKIN GOD I hope they up funding on education wherever you come from.


[edit on 13-9-2006 by Shroomery]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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The reason why this thread has more interest than the thread: "Why UFO's Exist" is because this one upsets the folks on ATS more.

UFO's are real. I firmly believe it. We can't shun that truth much longer, whether it's a good truth or evil truth.

You won't find hundreds of videos showing Santa Clause on the Net.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Btw shamanator, I hope you have seen the disclosure project? Cause they are pretty much what I would describe as intelligent people.

Here you go:

video.google.com...



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator


Just to Satisfy others what I am saying is correct here are a couple of links on the subject.



One of the most striking aspects of special relativity is that faster than light travel is equivalent to time travel. This is also one of the most widely understood aspects of the theory, and almost every explanation I've seen of the effects of superluminal travel on causality has been badly garbled. In this article, I will try to explain it more clearly.


Source



If one were able to move information or matter from one point to another faster than light, then according to special relativity, there would be an observer who sees this transfer as allowing information or matter to travel into the past. Additionally, faster than light travel along suitable paths would correspond to travel backward in time as seen by all observers. This results simply from the geometry of spacetime and the role of the speed of light in that geometry. However, traveling faster than light only exists in theory because it breaks the laws of physics and is thus impossible


Source

Maybe you should do a bit of brushing up on it since you do claim to be a scientist it couldnt hurt any.





Well, for a start, FTL doesn't break the laws of physics. Not even Relativity....... there are equations in SR which require that objects travel faster than the speed of light. However those objects have unusual properties when compared to normal objects, such as imaginary mass, and aren't believed to exist (but that doesn't mean that they don't). With GR, which deals with global frames of reference (unlike SR), there's nothing precluding an object travelling faster than light, so long as that object is moving faster than light w.r.t. the global reference frame. Which means that the object can't move in space faster than light, but can move faster if it moves with space. Einstein was quite happy to allow space itself to move at any velocity it likes and saw no contradiction in this with his theories. Many recent interpretations of Relativity, especially work done by Miguel Alcubierre, have shown that FTL travel is quite possible and doesn't violate the framework of Relativity, however they may require unusual properties of matter/energy to work...... though this factor is still very much speculation. In all the results are very promising.

Now for your causality violations and time travel. Since both are instricably linked the explanations for both are the same. The only reason why it appears that there are causality violations and apparent time travel due to travelling faster than light, is because the equations of SR, which deal with local reference frames, require that these factors behave as such because SR (and GR as well) considers time as being a dimension. However, since scientist don't actualy know what time is, and don't know the mechanisms by which it works, it is only speculation to assign it the properties of a true dimension. Quantum physics (String Theory in particular) has repeatedly shown that time may in fact be nothing more than a perceived aspect of the vibration of cosmic strings. That the perception of consciousness of reality sees these vibrations as a linear vector quantity of the spacetime fabric and that it is fact not a true dimension at all. That time itself is an illusion.

I don't need to brush up on it..... maybe you need to find more professional sources.

Smarmy little comments like your last sentence will get you nowhere.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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I'm sure its already been said, but this is utterly ridiculous.


Originally posted by Shamanator

1:: They are always seen by people who are drunk and or drugs and never by intelligent people


You couldn't be more wrong. Most unexplained ufo sightings were reported by trained professionals who were not drunk or on drugs.


2:: All Aliens that are seen look the same proving a mass delusion (or more likely baby memorys of seeing their mother before their eyesight is developed) please see this link www.badastronomy.com... for unrefuteable proof


Absurd. Because all humans look the same does that make it a mass delusion?
In fact, you are wrong from the beginning. There have been many types of aliens reported among abducties. The "grey", type is the most common.


3:: The distance between stars is light years and if any aliens developed travel fast enough theyd end up going faster than light and end up back in time.


And your point is? Maybe these aliens developed there technology in the future but they entered the past by the time they reached earth. However there are many loopholes to einstein's theory of relativity. These include wormholes or some sort of warp drive.


4:: Why are there so many hoaxes like the famous roswell hoax.


It wasn't a hoax.



5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.


Where?

Honestly try doing a little research before making a fool out of your self.



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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LMAO!!! YOU CANT BE SERIOUS?!?!?
can you justly prove to some of the people who have been woken in there sleep dragged out of there house with their relatives to whitness that they were crazy? and on drugs? hmm i guess the fact that in the morning they have a huge scar on their chest means they just fell down while taking acid....it sounds to me..that your in denial or somthing..cuz that has to be alot of crazy/acid users in just this country alone then.....putting aside the ones who are ..really crazy..and acid users..hah
good luck supporting your theory.
~Kiliker



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 06:13 PM
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The bible? Yet another person who is all a God worshiper that all sends e-mails that say God loves you and I spoke to God. I am going to blow the blood and gut out of my head right about...POP! There goes a vein. I guess that makes the biible infalible.
PHHT! YEAH RIGHT! This is making me mad...



:FLAME:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Removed insult

You have a couple of U2U's

[edit on 2/12/06 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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I think this topic was better left dead. It's obvious Shamanator is trying to get a rise by proclaiming false information. There's actually much more proof that there are U.F.O.'s than not.



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
I know a lot of people here believe in UFO's and Aliens like a religion which really is a pity in this day and age. The truth is there are no such things of course why are the people who see UFO's always mentally unstable if there were "REAL" aliens don't you think they would contact smart people like Stephen hawking and George Bush.

Here are the reasons why UFO's are not real

1:: They are always seen by people who are drunk and or drugs and never by intelligent people

2:: All Aliens that are seen look the same proving a mass delusion (or more likely baby memorys of seeing their mother before their eyesight is developed) please see this link www.badastronomy.com... for unrefuteable proof

3:: The distance between stars is light years and if any aliens developed travel fast enough theyd end up going faster than light and end up back in time.

4:: Why are there so many hoaxes like the famous roswell hoax.

5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.


Let me take the time to clearly point out that you are a moron.

1. This is absolutely ludicrous. I suppose you speak on behalf of the human conscious huh? Because there is no way on this green earth you could possibly know something like that.

2. So you debunk the alien issue by saying they all look the same huh? Wow, there is all the proof I need, lol...

3. AND you know everything about science too?! AMAZING!

4. The answer to this question is simple. Because unfortunately, there are people like you who choose to have a closed mind, thinking they know everything.

5. I guess you have never seen a living thing besides a human, lol...



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator

Here are the reasons why UFO's are not real

1:: They are always seen by people who are drunk and or drugs and never by intelligent people

Yeah. Like ex pres Carter who has seen UFOs, was a drunk and drug addict with an IQ of minus 10!!


2:: All Aliens that are seen look the same proving a mass delusion (or more likely baby memorys of seeing their mother before their eyesight is developed) please see this link www.badastronomy.com... for irrefutable proof


That's a revelation! I thought some aliens are 4 feet tall, some 6 footers, some with praying mantis eyes, and some with humanoid eyes. The differences are plenty. So what mass delusion are you talking about? And who is propagating this so called mass delusion?


3:: The distance between stars is light years and if any aliens developed travel fast enough theyd end up going faster than light and end up back in time.

So what do you know about time travel? What do you know about methodologies of faster than light travel and how the 'aliens' do it? Their technology is probably a million years ahead of ours! So wait for a million years and then you'll perhaps understand!!


4:: Why are there so many hoaxes like the famous roswell hoax.

Hoax???


5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.

Exactly. What we term as 'God' could be the alien who made us! The ancients called them 'Gods' for want of a better term and because of their powers that were beyond comprehension.

You would agree, I'm sure, that our universe is teeming with advanced technological civilizations, some older than our Solar System!! That's more than 5 billion years ahead of us!! So what's the big deal in seeing aliens partying around the galaxies? And visiting Earth? Open your closed mind, and let the truth in!

Cheers! We are not alone. Advanced alien civilizations are as real as the nose on your face!!



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
Here are the reasons why UFO's are not real

1:: They are always seen by people who are drunk and or drugs and never by intelligent people


Please see the disclosure project: www.disclosureproject.org - 400 verified exgovernment and exmilitary employees' testimonies including dozens of leaked memos and declassified documents.



2:: All Aliens that are seen look the same proving a mass delusion (or more likely baby memorys of seeing their mother before their eyesight is developed) please see this link www.badastronomy.com... for unrefuteable proof

This is a myth. If you start researching this subject properly there are over 50 reported types.



3:: The distance between stars is light years and if any aliens developed travel fast enough theyd end up going faster than light and end up back in time.


Please search google video for 'bob lazar' - a physicist who reverse engineered the drive of an alien craft while employed at S4.



4:: Why are there so many hoaxes like the famous roswell hoax.


The hoax to which you refer was the video which was recreated and released in 1995 by some UK guys. This was a recreation, thats why it was fake. The actual roswell event did take place, and it was a real ship.



5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.


The bible is not a factual account of history. It is a compilation of stories by various authors which has been translated over and over. I strongly disadvise taking anything you read from it literally.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Zareste
This is hilarious. Whatever happened to your good old 'weather balloons and swamp gas' routine? Didn't anyone believe you people?


Originally posted by Shamanator
5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.

Let's hope the animals don't find out about this.




LOL




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