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Why UFO's cant exist

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posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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the fatc is, S ham hasnt replied TO ANY one of our statements, this thread should be closed... DO SOME FRIGGIN RESEARCH BEFORE MAKING THESE CLAIMS! I posted in page 1 and you never answered. And you say everyone who sees ufo's are drugged and drunk???? OMG, PREJUDICCCCCCCCEEEEEE. BILLIONS of people have seen UFO's I dont think they are all on drugs or drunk...I am very tired of this thread, CLOSE IT MODS. When you start making this claims, give us sources...or wait...make better claims!! Oh, and you say there is no proof??? What about all the photographs and videos?? Abductees?? Yes, (before you say it) there are MANY hoaxes about UFO's but there are even more undeniable facts. Oh, and try to reply with some decent claims... and try to reply to our counter-arguments too please...
I would like to the last person to post for now, let Sham do a little research. Sham, read all posts in your stupid thread and think...THINK PLEASE!

-Jimmy-




posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 12:52 PM
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hey sham


why does the idea of aliens threaten you so much ?????????



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
It's well known that roswell was a hoax havent you seen the video where they cut up an obviously rubber alien. The guy who found it even admitted it was just a weather balloon.

When a president claimed to have seen a ufo that was likely to get votes from the ufo believer demographic.
Even if a President did see a ufo he probably imagined it while under the influence most presidents have admitted to some drug use.

If there was really aliens dont you think satelittes would have spotted them just look at the google earth pictures do you see any UFO's no because they dont exist.



i cannot believe this post is still on the "Hot Discussion" list.
only reason I can think of is because Scamanador makes people hot.
dude, unless you have facts... stop posting. this is a conspiracy forum, stop trying to post facts you believe are facts. only post beliefs. and if you do post "facts," at least back them up. cuz like dude said, "don't tell the animals..." god only created man.
and in turn- you could say God is a UFO-OM(Unvisible Frightening Object- Of Man).



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
If there was really aliens dont you think satelittes would have spotted them just look at the google earth pictures do you see any UFO's no because they dont exist.


there are also 1,000's of commercial jetliners in the sky at ANY given time. lets us see you find 20 on google man(without any help). come on now.



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 01:41 PM
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I laughed my ass of when shamanator said smart people like george bush.
But to be serious moderators, I think this thread should be closed since other members have already made threads similar to this one.

[edit on 2-9-2006 by Revelmonk]



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 01:49 PM
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i think this thread was over before it got started, guys.

all the george bushes and bibles in the world won't scour the rest of the universe of life, although lord knows they'll probably try.



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Shamanator
5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.


Now THAT'S what I call proof!! Finally, we can all stop searching for answers!!!

Possibly the most ignorant post I've ever read.

By the way, you end questions with a question mark in English...



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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Heres more unrefuteable proof I'll try to answer some of the questions asked if I can find any later but from a brief look I cant see any based on any science fact just wild conjecture and unbelievable claims.


The Ministry of Defence confirmed on Sunday a secret study completed in December 2000 had found no evidence that "flying saucers" or unidentified flying objects were anything other than natural phenomena.

quoted from news.scotsman.com...

I think that says it all if even the Governments can't find any evidence with all their fancy satelittes and Radar then It's certain there are no UFO's on earth.

Just to restate my position I find it unlikely that there are any aliens in space at all never mind on Earth surely Jesus would have mentioned if there was. But I can accept there may be some primitive animals somewhere the odds of them ever evolving space travel are slim to none.

I did notice that almost every poster has ignored the evidence that Aliens are really just birth memorys of our mothere.

And about why does the idea of aliens threaten you so much ?????????
The answer to that is it doesn't threaten me at all if we ever did encounter such demons though we should show them God's fury and hit them with every nuke and weapon we have. I have complete faith we would defeat such unholy monstrosities.



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 02:39 PM
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This thread is rediculous and as pretty much every member who has replied has given an indication for their stances, yet the original thread author does not, I am closing this.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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This is the most ridiclous, shallow minded and thoughtless post I have seen in quite some time. "all UFO sightings are by drunk people or people on drugs." I wonder what John Lear would say about that?? I wonder what Jimmy Carter would say about that? You clearly have no understanding of our place in this universe and I feel guilty that I have even replied to a post clearly unworthy of a dignified response.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 11:34 AM
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My IQ dropped just reading the first post in this thread.


Stop wtih the creationism already!



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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It appears the member posted his stance/reasons about the same time Simon closed the thread, so reopened (but of course, Simon is free to close if he wishes)...



Here are the reasons why UFO's are not real

1:: They are always seen by people who are drunk and or drugs and never by intelligent people


This comment is both false and completely free of critical thinking. UFO sightings have been reported by numerous doctors, lawyers, airline pilots, military pilots, military officers, police officers, and even former heads of state, including Presidents. This one statement actually completely nullifies the poster's argument as an ad hominem fallacy attack, and a poor logical argument.



2:: All Aliens that are seen look the same proving a mass delusion (or more likely baby memorys of seeing their mother before their eyesight is developed) please see this link www.badastronomy.com... for unrefuteable proof


Another fallacy, this time, post ad-hoc, again the complete lack of any logical argument. A variety of alien types and appearances have been reported throughout the decades. In fact, there are TWO main types, Nordics and Greys, which look very dissimilar. This statement shows a complete lack of research on the topic, and a general unfamiliarity with sightings in general.



3:: The distance between stars is light years and if any aliens developed travel fast enough theyd end up going faster than light and end up back in time.


This is a gross assumption that implies that:
a. we know everything there is to know about quantum mechanics
b. the aliens are far, for all we know, they live closeby
c. that they do not have means of space-folding, which has already been theorized by mainstream physicists, which negates the need for going faster than light
d. that we somehow understand time travel.

All of these assumptions are just that, assumptions.



4:: Why are there so many hoaxes like the famous roswell hoax.


First of all, Roswell is not a hoax. If it was not a spaceship crash, then it is a misidentification at worst, not a deliberate hoax. However, I've given just about anyone ample evidence to determine this for themselves. Check the stickied thread about famous UFO cases, for my threads on this subject. If you can logically refute the arguments, knock yourself out.

There are plenty of hoaxes, but there are in every field, even archeology, a "mainstream" science. Do false relics of Christ (like the James Ossuary), etc. then negate the entire field of archeology? Certainly not...
Another logical fallacy, slippery slope this time.

Certainly, the Billy Meiers and George Adamskis do damage to UFOlogy, but they are equally dismissed by most serious UFOlogists as well.



5:: In the bible God tells us he made man only.


Another gross assumption. First of all, the MAJORITY of humans on Earth do not believe in God (at least as presented in the Bible). Secondly, there is no statement that God didn't make man on other worlds, etc.



Just to restate my position I find it unlikely that there are any aliens in space at all never mind on Earth surely Jesus would have mentioned if there was.


And yet you are decrying others for not providing science facts??? You already stated they can't exist, now you're saying "unlikely"? At least one should choose a stance...




But I can accept there may be some primitive animals somewhere the odds of them ever evolving space travel are slim to none.


Gross assumption, where are the facts? The Drake Equation (a scientific equation, developed by a reknowned scientist, for computing the chances of other intelligent civilizations) would seem to disagree with this assumption. Also, if you accept the existence of animals on other planets, then where is your Biblical basis there?



I did notice that almost every poster has ignored the evidence that Aliens are really just birth memorys of our mothere.


Not ignoring, just that a) this doesn't fit many, many sightings, b) this is a theory, just like assuming the beings are aliens, and has the same legitimacy, c) it hardly explains photos, videos, and non-being sightings, such as craft sightings. All in all, it is a rather weak explanation, and is only even applicable to a select group of sightings, which even then it likely does not explain.

Of course, I'm sure the original poster knew all of this, and the thread was simply started as obvious flamebait. I don't usually respond to such threads, but this one was simply begging for it, with all of the fallacies and illogical arguments.

It should be retitiled, "How to make an illogical argument using nothing but logical fallacies", as it illustrates many different kinds. This thread would be an ideal learning tool for a critical thinking course.


[edit on 5-9-2006 by Gazrok]

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Gazrok]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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Shamanator you have to be the most ignorant, closed-minded person I've seen on this board in a long time.

You claim to have conclusive evidence that "God created no other beings than Humans" but there is no evidence whatsoever that there is a God.

You claim that everyone who see's UFOs is either drunk or stupid. How ridiculous, I won't even bring myself to argue with that claim.

...and worst of all you claim that we should "nuke the unholy abominations", you'r a disgrace, xenophobic and not to mention over-zealous.

You refer to aliens as "demons", wouldn't that defy your arguement that aliens don't exist? I could do on but I have a life to live...

Larks



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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A reminder to all to attack the points, not the person...

Someone arguing that their religion does not allow for aliens is not ignorant, but they are not making a logical argument. Their point may be open for attack, but the Terms & Conditions still apply, to EVERYONE (including mods).

Attacking the poster's intelligence or person only serves to weaken your argument. There are many intelligent people who believe in God, Buddha, and numerous other religions. Even Einstein was a man of faith. Just because we may or may not agree with a poster's religious ideas, we cannot assume anything about the poster him or herself.

Again, attack the points (and it is easy in this case, as they are textbook examples of logical fallacies), but do NOT attack the poster please.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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I hate to argue with a mod but i don't recall actually saying Shamantor was un-intelligent BECAUSE he believes in a God...I was attacking his closed-mindedness.

I'm quite happy to admit that some very intelligent people beilieve in a God, what I am not happy about is the fact that some people force thier religions upon others and seem to believe that if thier God didn't say it, it's not true.

Many Christians accept the idea that there may be extra-terrestrial life created by thier God.

To deny the existence of another race that is not from this planet when the scientific and mathematical chances of thier being one are certain (or as damn certain as we can be), is in my oppinion ignorant and closed minded.

[edit on 9/5/2006 by Mad Larkin]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Shamanator you have to be the most ignorant, closed-minded person I've seen on this board in a long time.


It's on the gray line (well, it's mild), which is why no warn was issued, but I thought it provided an opportunity to remind ALL to attack the points and not the person. No harm, no foul, just a kind reminder to all to keep it civil and avoid escalation....



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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To be honest, Shamanator, I think you are the one after attention and/or fame.


Fame on a messageboard? Doubtful.......

But after ATS points... most likely


Anyone who has really researched the UFO phenomenon knows Shamantor hasn't. I hope he is open-minded enough to read some of these replies and consider the possibilities.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 02:25 PM
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Right, I appologise for attacking the person but i still maintain that i didn't call him un-intelligent because he believed in a God. Sorry Shamanator, if it seemed that way.

Point taken and understood Gazok


Larks

[edit on 9/5/2006 by Mad Larkin]



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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i still maintain that i didn't call him un-intelligent


You didn't, but others did...hence the application to all. Sorry for the implication.
Now, hopefully we can get back on track here...


Bottom line is, UFOs have been witnessed, and officially reported by some very credible people, who were certainly not drunk or unintelligent, but actually quite the opposite. Many reports have been made by trained individuals who are EXTREMELY well versed in what should and should not be in the skies (i.e. pilots, radar operators, air traffic controllers, etc.).

We've sent probes to all of the planets in our solar system, within one lifetime. These probes tell us that liquid water may well exist on other worlds, right here in this solar system. We know that life can exist in the absolute freezing temperatures of the Arctic, and in the scalding heat of deep sea vents. It would be illogical to assume that life of some kind could not exist in whatever form, even on other planets in our own solar system. Knowing this, one cannot easily dismiss the possibility of EBEs (Extra-terrestrial Biological Entities), intelligent or otherwise.

Now accept that our little sun is but one of billions of billions, etc. (as Sagan loved to say) and the chances for other intelligent civilizations are simply such that the universe could be literally teeming with life. Therefore, it is not such a stretch that some should be visiting us, for whatever reason, just as we too start to explore our little block of the cosmos.

Something is going on...and that something prompted NUMEROUS government projects (most of which were secret during their time, such as Grudge, Sign, etc.) to assess the national security risk, as the military's own pilots were often the witnesses!

Sure there are hoaxes, fake photos, etc., but here's the thing... If even ONE is an actual pic or vid of an extra-terrestrial craft, then well, that's that isn't it? It doesn't matter how many fakes there are. If just ONE is the real deal, then so is the fact of alien visitation...and that's what keeps many of us in the field and interested. Personally, I almost enjoy finding out an event isn't UFO related.

Thing is, the evidence seems to suggest that if we are being visited, they don't have our best interests in mind (i.e. the secrecy, the toying with the military, abductions, etc.). Therefore, unlike many, I don't WANT them to be real in a sense...but there are often cases where their existence seems to be the logical conclusion, and I'd rather be armed with knowledge of it, than disarmed with delusion.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
[Thing is, the evidence seems to suggest that if we are being visited, they don't have our best interests in mind (i.e. the secrecy, the toying with the military, abductions, etc.). Therefore, unlike many, I don't WANT them to be real in a sense...but there are often cases where their existence seems to be the logical conclusion, and I'd rather be armed with knowledge of it, than disarmed with delusion.


i agree with your entire post with the exception of this paragraph.

and i cant totally disagree with it either...it is entirely likely they dont have our best interests at heart, but to think of them as malicious would be to apply our sense of morality to them. and even to do that we would be hypocrits. they "could" think of us as a novelty, an odd curiosity, maybe even waht they would consider 'almost intelligent'.

but given that they could see themselves as extremely more advanced and intelligent than we are, is what they do to us so much different than what we do to animals on our own planet? does researching and experimenting on animals make us inherently evil? no. it just means that we feel we're more intelligent than teh animals we're investigating and so we're able to dismiss it morally.

some would argue that what we do is ok because animals arent intelligent, yet, what standard are we basing intelligence on? could that yardstick not also be applied by us by a "higher intelligence"? and as far as waht we do to intelligent creatures...theres little argument that dolphins are at least as intelligent as a 7yo human.

so im totally hoping that aliens are visiting, i just welcome the opportunity for them to decide taht we're not subcreatures and are worthy of a place in the galactic community. but before that happens maybe we need to look at ourselves as a species and figure out if we're worthy of it or not.



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