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Missile Defence System

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posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Iskander, I am quite respectful of India Defence, but there's something I haven't been telling you about why I discounted the image in that report. My guess is that India Defense used a "stock picture" - common theme today.


planeman I agree with you entirely on the image. It does look like it is simply a stock pict, and "stock" use is a standard media practice.

Usually when the picture is of the actual event it has annotation with it, and usually a copy right.

The fact that any given picture can pop up all over the net and can be used by any loony out there, it does not in any way discredit the actual story.


EDIT: Note that the above article says that China has Tarantual III which is clearly not the case.


To my knowledge, so far PLA only fields Moskit on Project 956.

This would be them letting one loose;



As far as worldnetdaily.com news article goes, I don't know, I didn't use it as my reference. I prefer official sources.

P.S. How did you post the pict? I use [img, what do you use?




posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 08:38 PM
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Re pic posting, the policy here is that if you wish to show it in a thread you must first rehost it at Imageshack, Tinypic or the like. Then you use the tags [ats] rather than [img].

Re the article. It is based one of these two generally identical Iranian news releases (IRNA www.irna.ir... , IRIB www.iribnews.ir...)

The "it's Sunburn" chant seems popular on IranDefence too - well I have a VERY low opinion of the quality of analysis on that forum so I won't put any weight on that. But another source that says it's Sunburn is "iraqwar" iraqwar.mirror-world.ru... - which is just echoing the India Defence version of this press release.

Now I personally suspect that this "new" missile actually refers to the previously reported firing of a submarine launched missile, probably a C-802 variant purchased from China. If it's sub launched it sure isn't Sunburn.

Compare these two press releases, the first is nearly always accompanied by a picture of two missiles exiting the sea:

TEHRAN (Fars News Agency)- In another phase of Iran's extensive war games codenamed 'Blow of Zolfaqar', the naval force of the Islamic Republic's army Saturday tested an optimized remote controlled coast-to-sea missile successfully.

According to FNA dispatches, the missile hit and destroyed a prespecified target in the Persian Gulf and the Sea of Oman. The operation efficiency (missile destruction capability) was reported to have been one-hundred percent.

Other reports also said that optimization of the missile has been a product of the creativity and innovation of Iranian military experts.

War games spokesman Admiral Habib Sayyari mentioned appropriate range, high striking capability and high flexibility and precision in targeting among the special features of the missile.


Iran is said to have successfully tested an upgraded, indegenious, guided surface-to-sea missile, media reports confirmed on Saturday

The missile was tested at the Persian Gulf and Sea of Oman during the 'Blow of Zolfaqar' military exercises which began last Saturday.

Wargames spokesman Habib Sayari told reporters that the missile accurately hit its pre-determined targets. Sayari said that the missile has a suitable range, high shooting power and precision.

He added that the successful testing of the missile showed the strength, innovativeness, scientific and technical expertise of the country's defense forces and equipment as well as the potential and specialized skill of its experts.


Two new missiles fired the same day in the same sea????

Anyway, my doubts are underpinned by the lack of suitible platform to fire the moskit and the fact that the news release makes no comments which hint at the moskit - nothing about how it can destroy a carrier or is too fast to intercept.



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 10:49 PM
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Thanks for the pict posting help.

As to Iranian press-releases, naturally they're laced with official propaganda and information restrictions. I've been following Russian arms export trends for a while now, and after the collapse of USSR, Russia has used arms exports as mean of geo-political influence in a very traditional manner just as it was done for decades by all sides.

Things get touchy when it comes to high tech weapons such as the ones in question here. Ever since 1991, Russia and US are playing the export politics game, thus the heavy restructuring of Russian military industrial complex.

Broad industry consolidation efforts have been undertaken in order to protect vital sectors from so called "bankruptcy for hire" schemes.

Same goes for the export market, and when political needs require transfer of sensitive tech, a fine balance is needed in order to avoid international incidents.

Such is the situation with cruise missile and anti-ship missile technologies. In case of Iran for example, local manufacturing is established in order to avoid export embargoes.

In stead of out right supplying possible enemy's of USA with high tech weapons, Russians simply sell manufacturing technology and set up production lines, just as they did with Iran.

Tech transfer is a very lucrative business, and considering that most arms exporting nations literally plow through the jungle of international laws on daily bases, it's simply much harder to implicate any given nation in illegal tech transfer rather then a "questionable" arms deal.


Anyway, my doubts are underpinned by the lack of suitible platform to fire the moskit and the fact that the news release makes no comments which hint at the moskit - nothing about how it can destroy a carrier or is too fast to intercept.


By stating Moskit capabilities against a carrier Iran would be making a clear challenge to US, which politically is very costly, and I'm not at all surprised that no such official statements were made.

The fact that currently USN does not posses a defensive capability against such weapon class is common knowledge.

Bazalt is a dedicated carrier killer, and a single missile is designed to deliver unsustainable damage. It is in fact one of the last giant anti-ship missile of its generation.

Moskit being a later development follows a natural progression. Smaller, smarter, faster.

While stated Moskit capabilities are rated for ship tonnage, when it comes to carriers its a different ball game. The bigger they are the harder they fall approach.

By it self a single Moskit is not able to deliver the damage needed to sink a carrier, but do to its increased accuracy over previous generations, It can compromise the superstructure and initiate a catastrophic chain reaction.



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 10:55 PM
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I think we ought to agree that although there are some sources which believe that Iran has Moskit, there is no hard proof. And whilst you might not agree with my conclusion, it is also safe to say that there are no indications of Iran building/modifying or even having a specific program to produce and/or launch Moskit.

But I think we need to close this issue because it has got some way from the original topic.


Maybe in a years time Iran will have Sunburn operational and you can say "I told you so"



PS. I just asked re the latest two Chinese Sov's over on SinoDefence and a couple of posters have come back saying they are to be armed with Moskit not Yakhont as some of your sources suggested. Apparently it's an improved varient of Moskit, but still Moskit.

[edit on 4-9-2006 by planeman]



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 11:11 PM
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I agree planeman, so far there is no conclusive evidence that Iran does in fact field Moskit operationally, and I also agree that we are getting of topic.

One thing though;


Maybe in a years time Iran will have Sunburn operational and you can say "I told you so"


It may be good enough for us, but it sure won't be if God forbid we get dragged into a conflict with Syria/Iran, because the price will be payed in lives.

The Hezbollah attack on Israeli ships is a perfect example of such negligence, and just again proves a age old virtue of never underestimating your opponent.

[PS. I just asked re the latest two Chinese Sov's over on SinoDefence and a couple of posters have come back saying they are to be armed with Moskit not Yakhont as some of your sources suggested. Apparently it's an improved varient of Moskit, but still Moskit.

Yep, PLA has been working on that for years, and given their manufacturing capacity they have the same trend. As soon as they adopt any given tech they quickly mass produce their own variants.



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 11:12 PM
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BTW, take a look at this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

You've asked me about LockOn before, and I think you'll find it interesting.



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