Is this really whats going on?

Yesterday I sat down and listend to the entire speach bush gave to the American Legion. I have always paid attention to global events and world happenings, while trying to figure out what is really going on. I think I finally realized what is happening in Iraq and why it is being called the "War on Terror". I think that most people do not realize what I am about to say and thats why there is so little support for the war. Bush has done a terrible job at saying whats happening but he tries. It was only yesterday that I finally got what he is trying to say.


The war in Iraq is no longer for Iraq. The war we are fighting in Iraq is a war against terrorist not iraqies. For years terrorist have been trying to get at america anyway possible. They have done this with the embassay bommings, the first bomming of the WTC, the USS Cole, Kidnapings, and countless other little acts of terror that go unrememberd by the US populous. But now thigs are different. The enemy of the terrorist is in their land and they can eaisly reach our forces. The forces we are fighting in iraq and in Afgan. are not native to thoes countries. The terrorist now have the oppertunity to wage the war on america they have wanted as we are there and not seprated by an ocean. (Because face it a terrorist invasion is highly unlikely and terror plots are becoming harder and harder to carry out) THey are comming for all over the middle east eurpoe and india to fight the "Evil regiem" (in their minds) of the USA. They finally have the oppertunity to do the dammage that they always wanted to the US forces. The war in Iraq is just that a War IN Iraq. IRaq is the battle grounds not the focus of the war. THis is also why its taking so long and why we are loosing so many troops.

sure we can come back to the US but that will only buy them time and the ability to attack civilians instead of our military forces that are suppsoed to fight and protect the lives of the citizens of their country.


Am I right in beliving this? I dont want this to be about the grand conspiracy and the whole "BUT BUSH IS THE TERRORIST" or "THE TERRORIST ARENT REAL!" I jsut want to know if this is what is suppsoably going on.

From the end of WW2 America rose to the status of a superpower alongside the former Soviet Union. America's foriegn policy has been that of trying to police the world as a cover and spread its influence but the reality is that it has been engaged in wars based on a clash of ideals, Communism/capitalism etc. The current trend is now religeous, Christians/jews V Muslims. This policy of invading various countries by reason of lies and smoke screens is to further this policy. And America has picked countries which in the main cannot fight back on equal terms, with the exception of Vietnam and North Korea.

The result of these activites in America's dominance of the world and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in these countries fermentes hatred towards America and the American people. If this policy of aggression, laying waste to the country and the wholesale carpet bagging of indigenous assets continues then one can hardly be suprised at the outcome of such activites.

If I could put 2 questions too you: The American Goverment states that it is concerned about Nuclear proliferation and so called rougue states having them, well Iraq, Afganistan and Iran dont have any but China, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel have lots of them yet I dont see America making plans to invade those countries. I dont think they fall into the catergory of rougue states but there hardly America's best friends. And China will in the next few years will be able to challenge America's superpower status.
Secondly if America was invaded by whoever dont you think the people would fight back, at least some of them. Maybe you yourself would but then would that make you a terrorist/insurgent or would you be classed as a patriot. Remember one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Not everyone wants to be under American influence or control and when you kill, bomb, torture, rob and maim you got to expect to get some in return.

~~

i say your correct....

back after the Afghanistan invasion
the Bush regime made some sort of rhetoric about going in Iraq too,
saying something like

[align=center][Its better to have blood in the streets of Baghdad
than having a mushroom cloud over America][/align]


the PNACers & neocons & Rumsfeld
actually strategized that the ?liberation? ?occupying? forces would be like
'Fly-Paper' in attracting & then eliminating the enemy(radical, militant Muslims)
who would attracted to fight their enemy(US forces)
in their own back-yard(Islamic Holy land)

other than Madrid, London, Italy, Indonesia, the recent foiled Trans-Atlantic airliner plot....the neocons & Dominionists of BushCo., for 5 years now, were correct

~~

i say your correct....

back after the Afghanistan invasion
the Bush regime made some sort of rhetoric about going in Iraq too,
saying something like

[align=center][Its better to have blood in the streets of Baghdad
than having a mushroom cloud over America][/align]


the PNACers & neocons & Rumsfeld
actually strategized that the ?liberation? ?occupying? forces would be like
'Fly-Paper' in attracting & then eliminating the enemy(radical, militant Muslims)
who would attracted to fight their enemy(US forces)
in their own back-yard(Islamic Holy land)

other than Madrid, London, Italy, Indonesia, the recent foiled Trans-Atlantic airliner plot....the neocons & Dominionists of BushCo., for 5 years now, were correct

I agree with you also....

Since the Civil War there has not been a war fought on American soil....there has not been ruin to the cities, raping and pillaging of villages so to speak.....

I think it was the intent to keep it off of American soil....but I also believe that it was meant to create a stronghold in the middle of that mess over there. Where better to place a democratic state that in the middle of syria, iran, etc.

Originally posted by aimlessly

Since the Civil War there has not been a war fought on American soil....there has not been ruin to the cities, raping and pillaging of villages so to speak.....

I think it was the intent to keep it off of American soil....but I also believe that it was meant to create a stronghold in the middle of that mess over there. Where better to place a democratic state that in the middle of syria, iran, etc.

Originally posted by aimlessly
Where better to place a democratic state that in the middle of syria, iran, etc.

A democratic state? You talk of raping and plundering, thats whats America and the west has done to Iraq. While billions and billions is poured into coporate contracts for western companies in the nation, the peoples health survices and basic needs arn't met at all.

"The war is a continuing public health disaster that was predictable - and should have been preventable,"

.....Medact accuses the UK and US governments and Iraqi authorities of denying "the true extent of harm" to Iraq's civilians.

It also says health relief and reconstruction efforts have been bungled through mismanagement and corruption
news.bbc.co.uk...

Read about what 'democracy' really means for any country being "helped" by the U.S

The Corporate-U.S. Takeover of the Iraq Economy

The story of the invasion of Iraq and theft of the Iraqi economy is part of a larger story of multi-national corporations and corporate globalization affecting much of the world. Under the guise of "free trade" economic policies that make multinational corporations more powerful than governments. Laws favoring corporations are put in place: less regulation, less commitment to specific locations, and restrictions on government preventing the shift of economic benefit away from small, local business, workers, consumers and the environment. Globalization of trade claims to benefit by trickling down the profit, but in reality it continues to funnel wealth to the top - making the rich richer, the poor poorer and the middle class class smaller.
www.americanchronicle.com...

But at least the yhave democracy right ?

"Freedom of the press is beginning to smell a little rotten in the new Iraq," reports Robert Fisk, listing some of the fatwas that U.S. Proconsul Paul Bremer has issued against Al Jazeera and other Arab media. "Things are no better in the American-run television and radio stations in Baghdad. The 357 journalists working from the Bremer palace grounds have twice gone on strike for more pay and have complained of censorship.
www.prwatch.org...

Every single expert opinion before the war suggested that civil war would break out. And it's fairly obvious that this is what the governments of the UK and US intended for the good ol' fashioned divide and conquer routine:

“Indeed, much of the war in Northern Ireland appeared to revolve around the use of covert killings and SAS undercover operatives who blew away IRA men in ambushes.”

After making this correct observation of how British imperialism stirred up sectarian tensions and carried out political assassinations in order to preserve its rule over its oldest colonial possession, Fisk continues, “Which does raise the question, doesn’t it, as to just what our two SAS lads were doing cruising around Basra in Arab dress with itsy-bitsy moustaches and guns? Why did no one ask? How many SAS men are in southern Iraq? Why are they there? What are their duties? What weapons do they carry? Whoops! No one asked.”
www.wsws.org...
www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2005/09/20/wirq20.xml

This is an an example of SAS dressed as muslums , carrying explosives and shooting at police!!! Don't hear about these kinda operations very often do we ?

And just as a final note, please remember who befriended and armed this "monsterous dictator" in the frist place yeh ? A do some research on the genocide America has sponsored and does sponsor around the world when it suites corporate or political interst, it will the picture alot clearer for you.

(a picture of rumsfeld shaking saddams hand in the 80's)

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[edit on 1/9/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Mizar

You may be right to some point on what you see and feel about the war on terror.

But do not forget that since the US invasion of Iraq US has brought the war on terror to that country.

You are very right on your statement that Iraq is now the battler ground for terrorism.

But do not forget that Iraqis that fight opposing invasion and occupation are also seen as terrorist.

Iraq as a nation is crumbling under the different groups that now populate their lands, while many are just to cause harm to the US troops, we also have the groups from within that waited 40 years to settler old scores.

So yes we hear a lot of civilian killings, but what we don't heard is that is mostly tribal rivalry.

It may take another 40 years for people in that nation to settler and then embrace democracy if the wish for.

In the meanwhile our troops will be in the middle all the struggles, from foreign fighters, insurgents and tribal wars.

If our administration had taken the time to plan better how to protect the civilian population we will not be in the mess we are now.



[edit on 1-9-2006 by marg6043]

It is true that iraq was the battlefield that we picked...

but ask yourself... does that make you feel bad that are basically using the iraqi people as targets also?

And does it make you feel bad to understand that we didn't have any terrorist attacks after 9-11 (until just the last couple of years)

and would it make you feel bad to find out that 9-11 was planned, and supplied by elements within our own government, as a way of getting public support for the coming 'holy war"

Personally, i understand that the government saw a threat from muslim extremists, and wanted to mediate that threat...
And i also know that the administration saw a country that had grown soft and secure in our artificial safety net...
I just think there was a better way for the administration to get what they wanted, than allow us to be attacked... (same goes for pearl harbor)

Originally posted by Mizar

terrorist now have the oppertunity to wage the war on america they have wanted as we are there and not seprated by an ocean. (Because face it a terrorist invasion is highly unlikely and terror plots are becoming harder and harder to carry out) THey are comming for all over the middle east eurpoe and india to fight the "Evil regiem" (in their minds) of the USA. They finally have the oppertunity to do the dammage that they always wanted to the US forces.

wait a minute.

let me get this right.

are you saying that President Bush and his administration is deliberately scarificing the lives of American soilders in order to let the terrorist take out their anger on troops rather than bring the fight to US soil?

so its like, keep them busy with US army in Iraq and Afghanistan and they will not come and blow up Americans inside United States?

Is that what you meant to say?

thats interesting.

never thought of it that way.

nice theory. it very possible that it could be true.

but we will never know for sure. only Bush can reveal his own intentions.






[edit on 1-9-2006 by mr conspiracy]

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
It

Personally, i understand that the government saw a threat from muslim extremists, and wanted to mediate that threat...
And i also know that the administration saw a country that had grown soft and secure in our artificial safety net...
I just think there was a better way for the administration to get what they wanted, than allow us to be attacked... (same goes for pearl harbor)

I don't understand your thinking on this. The U.S has created muslim extremisn in Iraq, and that is fine because the Neo-cons know they need an enemy for their war on terror which "could last a hundred years" .

And if they wanted to mediate the threat then why did they go to Afghanistan? The FBI site itself says that there is no evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.

Face it, it has nothing to do with muslim extremism, that is simply a specter and hightened illusion created in order to further the oil hungry imperlialist goals of this administration.

Also, what Bush and the medias don't say is that they CREATED muslims extremists in Afghanistan in the 80s by funding Mujadheen with the CIA. They send them books printed in the USA with a department of education stamp, to teach them a new form of islam, an extremist one to fight against Russia and those who rape their country.

Please, don't listen to the propaganda speeches of Bush and go find REAL infos about history of CIA, Middle-east, economics projects, false-flag operations, globalisation, north american union, patriot act 1&2, 9/11 truth...

And almost ALL terrorists acts that you mentions were made by CIA or a secret services agency.

[edit on 1-9-2006 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
wait a minute.

let me get this right.

are you saying that President Bush and his administration is deliberately scarificing the lives of American soilders in order to let the terrorist take out their anger on troops rather than bring the fight to US soil?

so its like, keep them busy with US army in Iraq and Afghanistan and they will not come and blow up Americans inside United States?

Is that what you meant to say?

thats interesting.

never thought of it that way.

nice theory. it very possible that it could be true.

but we will never know for sure. only Bush can reveal his own intentions.

thats not what I was saying at all. I was saying that we are continuing to fight them there so that we dont have to fight them here. Im saying we can either bring the fight to them and let the military do its job or we can wait for them to come here and kill civilians. I much rather see the guys whos job it is to fight for freedom die than innocent school children.

And its not like we are sacrificing the troops. Its a War we are FIGHTING them. not keeping them bussy.

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[edit on 1/9/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by earthtone

I don't understand your thinking on this. The U.S has created muslim extremisn in Iraq, and that is fine because the Neo-cons know they need an enemy for their war on terror which "could last a hundred years" .

And if they wanted to mediate the threat then why did they go to Afghanistan? The FBI site itself says that there is no evidence connected Bin Laden to 9/11.

sorry, cart before the horse... but i agree...
I should have stated why we had an islamic threat...

It was one we created, but nevertheless, it was a threat that had to be handled for our relationship with israel to stay good (and oil).

they didn't mediate the threat by going into afghanistan...
they allowed 9-11 so as to mediate the repurcussions of the oil hunting that would soon occur...

Sectarian violence is spreading in Iraq and the security problems have become more complex than at any time since the U.S. invasion in 2003, a Pentagon report said Friday.

The report described a rising tide of sectarian violence, fed in part by interference from neighboring Iran and Syria and driven by a "vocal minority" of religious extremists who oppose the idea of a democratic Iraq.

Death squads targeting mainly Iraqi civilians are a growing problem, heightening the risk of civil war, the report said.

"Death squads and terrorists are locked in mutually reinforcing cycles of sectarian strife," the report said, adding that the Sunni-led insurgency "remains potent and viable" even as it is overshadowed by the sect-on-sect killing.

link

We went into Iraq under false pretenses and we have contributed significantly to the ruination of that country. We have no one but ourselves to blame. There is no way we can fix the problems we have caused over there. We need to turn the country over to the international community and devote the funding earmarked to military operations to reparations. We need to conduct a congressional inquiry into who is responsible for the debacle, and meet out appropriate justice. We need to get started on this immediately.

We need to devote our future attention to securing our borders, investing in our own infrastructure, and reuniting a divided country here at home.

Mizar so the life of an Iraq child is of less value than an American one? And the terrorism dose not exist its been created by the CIA and others for an excuse for making war and pursing Americ'a global interests. Its simple, stop waging war, stop percecuting people, stop undermining goverments you dont like or wont do as there told and the terrorism will stop.

Rumsfeld and co tried to do a deal with the Taliban to get the new oil pipeline through when they wouldnt play ball we invaded Afganistan and the pipe line is being built. The people of the countries America invades are not terrorists there people just like you and I, they want to lead normal lives and dont want to be under the jackboot of a foreign power and if America persists in these actions you will have more acts opf terrorism on your own soil because people will fight back. How many Americans at home will have to die before the American people stop the goverment from the continuing slaughter of innocent men women and children around the world.

The American people have been fortunate in that they have never had to suffer the effects of a war in their country.(since the civil war) I think if the American goverment continues on this course then that luxury of isolation will very quickly disapear. Its time for the American people to realise what is really going on and realise that their future security and safety cannot be guaranteed with the existing foriegn policy.

Or if the American people and goverment think they are top dog and want to rule the world thats fine as long as you realise that you will be engaged in continuous war and suffering that would eventually lead to the demise of your current status, history is strewn with great powers that have come and gone and America will just be another name added to that list.

I wasnt stating this is my belifes on the war. I was asking if this is what they are trying to tell us is going on. this thread has nothing to do with my personal beliefs.

Mizar Bush is trying to sell you the idea that its better to attack you before they hit you and take the war to them. Well the whole terror issue is a pack of lies that is being used to further America's influence around the world. Afganistan, Iraq did not attack or invade America and there's no evidence that Iran or North Korea will do anything either. So why has America attacked these countries or is planning to. The great evil as you put it has been around since 1945 yet only recently has these so called terrorist attacks happened. The Muslim/Christian/ Jewish etc. faiths have been around for thousands of years yet Bush go's on as if the Muslim menace was something cooked up a few years ago, and there no Muslim menace there's extremists in every religeous group.

That murderous regime the American goverment is conning you all big time and your falling for it, do you think you can really use the logic of if we hit them they wont hit us. Well firstly if you knew there was a massive invasion force that was about to attack America you would be justified to take them out. But this is not the case is it. To date no country has attacked America only groups of alleged terrorists have done so and that has been used as a pretext to invade other countries to rob them, murder its people and when they try and fight back there labelled as terrorists or insurgents.

If people want to believe that America will be safer by these actions then keep on believing it. You said you understood what Bush was giving as the rason to be in Iraq well maybe you could explain it to me because I dont believe the cover story.

Iraq 1 was about oil, everytime there's conflict in the middle east the price of oil goes through the roof, who wins the money men and the goverments, who loses you and I the tax payer. Its the same with Iraq 2 and lets not forget the little issue of the deaths of so many innocent people. If its not about oil and theres no WMD's and no terrorist links to the Iraq's then what are we doing there, Iraq is becoming the 2nd Vietnam as many people predicted so how is Bush/Blair going to get the troops home and more importantly what state will we leave Iraq in.

Originally posted by magicmushroom

That murderous regime the American goverment is conning you all big time and your falling for it, do you think you can really use the logic of if we hit them they wont hit us. Well firstly if you knew there was a massive invasion force that was about to attack America you would be justified to take them out. But this is not the case is it. To date no country has attacked America only groups of alleged terrorists have done so and that has been used as a pretext to invade other countries to rob them, murder its people and when they try and fight back there labelled as terrorists or insurgents.

If people want to believe that America will be safer by these actions then keep on believing it. You said you understood what Bush was giving as the rason to be in Iraq well maybe you could explain it to me because I dont believe the cover story.

nice to know that not everyone is falling for it...
well said, and points well made