America Has Forgotten 9/11/01

I think what people are differing on in regard to the definition of unity, is reactionary unity in response to a common sense of having been attacked versus unconditional national or global unity and compassion. I could be wrong, but I believe the author of this thread is talking about the latter rather than the former. (If I'm wrong, please disgregard this post.) I concur with others that the former isn't something I would like to relive anytime soon, but the latter gave me a brief, shining moment of hope not only for my country, but for the larger world as well.

I remember 9-11 like it was yesterday. I remember sitting at a computer, much as I am right now, and seeing someone in a chat room saying, "somebody just flew into the world trade center." My first reaction was an odd one. I typed, "LOL," because I thought that they were pulling my leg. I was barely 20 in 2001 and had up until shortly thereafter lived a much more sheltered, isolated life than I have been blessed with in subsequent years. I couldn't conceive of why or how anyone would intentionally fly a plane into a building, so I assumed that it was a joke. I quipped (regrettably,) "that's one lousy pilot." I have to shake my head in dismay when I remember how naive I was just five years ago. Then I turned on the news, and saw the horror of the day unfold live like so many others.

The common theme in my mind throughout the day was, "so many deaths." You see, I happen to care when someone else suffers or dies. I did before 9-11, I did on 9-11, I do today, and I always will. There were lots of tears. I remember someone I love calling me in tears, because she had been discussing the attacks with a friend of hers on the phone when she heard that friend's baby daughter crying in the background. It made her think, "What kind of a world will that beautiful little girl grow up in?" In the days that followed, that mental theme was replaced by, "At least this has brought people together, and the world is ironically more unified in their compassion for us than it was on 9-10-01." I really believed that at the time. It gave me hope. I thought the world might actually unite, and do something to combat its common ills and sources of suffering.

In the coming weeks and months, that hope faded. I remember the same friend calling me in tears again - this time for very different, very ironic reasons. The assembly line she worked on had a TV nearby, and her co-workers had started cheering out loud the day bombs began to fall over Afghanistan. I later turned on the news to watch for myself, and ironically found myself thinking something similar to what I had on 9-11: "So many deaths will likely result from this and other conflicts stemming from these attacks." I cared that those people were dying then, and I still care today. Maybe I'm still naive. Perhaps I've added a fair degree of stupidity to that naïveté as well in the ensuing years. I just know I care.

I have not forgotten 9-11, and I still feel the same sense of unity and compassion with people that I did before, during, and after that fateful day. I still care when bombs tear people limb from limb anywhere in the world, and will continue to care whether those people be Americans, Arabs, soldiers, terrorists, little green men, or elves. That I care as much when a bomb dropped from one of my country's planes rips through someone's body as I did when planes flew into buildings on 9-11 is not something most people I know understand or agree with. It's what I feel, though. One can't change what's in their heart, however illogical it may seem.

In conclusion, I remember and I still care, and that has nothing to do with who was responsible or who the "bad guys" are or aren't. I don't want to feel divided from my fellow Americans - and human beings everywhere - based on ideology or political bias anymore than I feel divided from the people who died that day in my heart, which is to say, not at all. I hope I always feel that way.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by WolfofWar
..................
What does the President have to say about the man we were supposed to be looking for?

"Were not concerned about him anymore."

I know some people keep using that as a reason for bashing the president, but do you know in what context did he say that?... What was happening at that moment that he said that?... Was that comment made when Katrina happened?, if it was so then yes, at that moment the real issue was to concentrate on what was happening in the affected areas and not on Osama Bin Laden at that moment....

Muaddib
If I was in your shoes I wouldn't EVEN mention the "Katrina Horror" and "George Bush" in the same sentence all the while trying to convince yourself that Bush was concerned about the Katrina victims,............ he was so concerned that he allowed those people to suffer, starve, and die while he was on vacation and knowing full well that those walls were not that secure to hold the high waters out of New Orleans and to keep the citizens safe . How stupid do you Bush supporters think the rest of the world is,.................. I wasn't born yesterday, Dude

Originally posted by AceWombat04
I think what people are differing on in regard to the definition of unity, is reactionary unity in response to a common sense of having been attacked versus unconditional national or global unity and compassion. I could be wrong, but I believe the author of this thread is talking about the latter rather than the former. (If I'm wrong, please disgregard this post.) I concur with others that the former isn't something I would like to relive anytime soon, but the latter gave me a brief, shining moment of hope not only for my country, but for the larger world as well.

thank you acewombat04 for understanding my message.

im not the most articulate person on these message boards, and its hard to get your message through when people are too freaking entrenched on their opposite sides of the fence.

this thread is only showing how divided we truly are.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
-Abraham Lincoln

Originally posted by Muaddib


I know some people keep using that as a reason for bashing the president, but do you know in what context did he say that?... What was happening at that moment that he said that?... Was that comment made when Katrina happened?, if it was so then yes, at that moment the real issue was to concentrate on what was happening in the affected areas and not on Osama Bin Laden at that moment....

It wasn't during Katrina, it was during a press conference in 2002.

The Exact quote

"I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."

Now I'm not trying to spin this about bush bashing. I don't honestly think he's doing anything more then other presidents have in the past. What this does show is a good example of our political structure, how our politicians and even political figures use the heat of a moment from catastrophy, whether real or synthetic, to further theyre finacial gains.

Originally posted by 8th
What about WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Katrina, Pearl Harbor, Oak. city bombing, ect ect ect....

i totally agree with that how everyone has forgotten about 9-11 and all the wars we have fought and are fighting now, it just goes to show you how ignorant most americans really are everytime at work when someones change is 911 i think of that day, and when i hear 343 i think of the firefighters who died and whenever i am reminded of something sad like that in our history i remember the people who died, both innocently and in the line of duty.

Originally posted by elitegamer23
you are selling short the attitude americans had that day. we loved our families, friends , and fellow americans more. we hated our enemies less. if you get sucker punched, do you walk away?


im not saying we need a united sheeple attitude. i never once said that. i never once said anything about gettin revenge on dark skinned arabs.

we both agree america is messed up beyond belief right now. as long as were divided, this problem will not be go away . you dont realize i am with you when you question our motives in the world after 9/11.

im not here saying its ok. im saying if we really want to FIX our great country. if we desire a better humanity. we need to stand together. our commonality is our humanity.

i must go to bed . you can tell me how a divided country will cure our problems. ill read it tomorrow. gnight.

Personally I think that whole "We all love our friends and family" mentality never existed, we where told that by the TV that it did... but did it really? Maybe it was a shock, and everyone was like WTF, and they watched TV together... but did any one ever actually have that attitude?

Originally posted by Rockpuck


Personally I think that whole "We all love our friends and family" mentality never existed, we where told that by the TV that it did... but did it really? Maybe it was a shock, and everyone was like WTF, and they watched TV together... but did any one ever actually have that attitude?

im sorry you dont love your friends and family.

yes i did feel compassion for the people who died on 9/11. i did love my family more after watching the attacks on 9/11. i did care more about humanity after seeing the evil that is possible in this world.

are you saying you dont care about humanity? are you saying you didnt care for your family more after that fateful day? did you not feel sorrow for the many lives that were lost on that day? would you not have done anything to help another out after watching that day unfold?

tv doesnt tell me how to think. i think therefore i am.





[edit on 31-8-2006 by elitegamer23]

Originally posted by nanna_of_6

Muaddib
If I was in your shoes I wouldn't EVEN mention the "Katrina Horror" and "George Bush" in the same sentence all the while trying to convince yourself that Bush was concerned about the Katrina victims,............ he was so concerned that he allowed those people to suffer, starve, and die while he was on vacation and knowing full well that those walls were not that secure to hold the high waters out of New Orleans and to keep the citizens safe .

How stupid do you Bush supporters think the rest of the world is,.................. I wasn't born yesterday, Dude

......This has been covered many times before.

First of all the States are the ones who carry out all the emergency evacuations, and president Bush did offer the Governor of Luisiana to send troops to help the victims, yet the Governor of Luisiana refused the help.

The Mayor of N.O. should have made sure there was a better evacuation strategy, one which they had for years and was written down word for word.

Many municipal buses were not used in the evacuation, and we saw the pictures of 60-100 buses or more since there were other pictures which showed more buses which were not used in other places in N.O. with flood waters still around them.

The state only used one way of the highway for the evacuations, going out of the city, is not like anyone wanted to get into New Orleans the days before the hurricane touched down.

Perhaps you wanted for the president of the United States to wrestle the power away from the Mayor of N.O. and the Governor of Luisiana to make sure there was help getting to the victims faster...oh wait, you would have used this as another reason to bash away the government....silly me...


[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Unity is not a bad thing.

The Country has not forgotten that day. What we have forgotten is the emotions those events brought on us. We think 9/11 today and we think of it the same way we do Pearl Harbor. Most of teh country rembers what happened but have lost teh sadness in it. Yes their are those who were effected directly who its still pains but 90% of the country has had enough of that pain.

And the talk about unity. Unity makes this country great. Every time their has been trouble in the World and America has had to step foward it is because of a nearly unified country. Not a country who always agrees but a country that is willing to go in a direction and trust its leaders. We have no unity today not because of our leaders. It is because we have 2 sides that do not want to cooperate. I as an american wanna be unified but party bosses have too much of a power thirst to admit they are wrong and someone else is right.

The only way we will see unity again in this country is with another great tradgedy. One that will rock us to the core and give us a clear and defined evil we must rally against or die. We need another great war to bring us together and snap us out of this stupid mindset we are in.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
The only way we will see unity again in this country is with another great tradgedy. One that will rock us to the core and give us a clear and defined evil we must rally against or die. We need another great war to bring us together and snap us out of this stupid mindset we are in.

You actually wish for more death and destruction just to bring about the acceptance of more death and destruction?

The only way you'd get your wish is to kill me and those like me.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Never forget WHAT exactly? Never forget a heap of rubble? A few thousand deaths? A dip in the stockmarket? Not being able to fly for a couple of days?

Frankly, 9/11/01, though horrible, is probably the single most disproportionately represented disaster in recent memory. As wars go, that was just a bad day at the office, no pun intended.

It happens. You pick yourself up, dust yourself off, whack the goober who did it upside the head so hard that his kids come out cross-eyed, and you move on.

If there were a lesson to learn from 9/11, I'd sing another tune. If there was some moral people were asking us to remember, fine. I've been saying this since the 1st anniversary.

9/11 must only be remembered for the selflessness that was shown on that day, and in its approach, in its observance, and in its fading again should be an inspiration to similar spirit. Let 9/11 mean these things, without mourning nor wrath, lest we celebrate a day of death.

I refuse to dwell on sadness. I refuse to focus on a war that all but ended 4 years ago. I refuse to develop a victim complex. Above all, I refuse to let one headline event define the time in which I live and the way in whcih I view it.

Do you know why 9/11 was forgotten? First and foremost, because nobody ever learned from it to begin with, and secondly because nobody made this big a deal of the anniversary up until the Republican Party got in this much trouble.

You have voted The Vagabond for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I could not have expressed that better... How cheaply we have sold our principles for the illusion of security. :shk:

Originally posted by elitegamer23
what kind of selfishness are you talking about on 9/11???????????????

Actually I said selflessness, not selfishness. Even Bush was selfless... it was very sweet of him to finish that book for the class before doing anything to preserve a functioning government/save his own life. (forgive me for joking)

Here's the question I'm pushing: what do we get out of remembering 9/11? Yes, there were acts of selflessness and compassion on 9/11. And? In the final analysis, 9/11 made us worse people, not better. Retribution for such an attack should have been a solemn affair, not the biggest "reality tv" hit of the decade.

To me this makes it obvious that little if anything was learned or gained through that trial by most people, and that leaves only one question: was there anything to be learned or gained?.

On that point you and I may have a slight difference of opinion. I acknowledge that there is some insight into humanity there, but I find the revelation mostly unremarkable for its narrow scope, daily reoccurance in other events of varying scale, and the tremendous negative reaction against which the positive reaction must be weighed.

On a scale of 1-10, I rate the level of tragedy on 9/11 a 5 at best, and if I had to give humanity a letter grade on how we handled it, I'd give a D (it's not an F because the NYFD and a few others pulled the average up significantly).

Maybe I cope differently than other people, but when i have a day like that, I count the seconds until its completely behind me and then I do everything I can to keep it there.

And no, I'm not from France, but there does happen to be a town not terribly far away from me called Mecca, CA (when I was 6 I thought that was the town that Muslims prayed towards infact, and I was THOROUGHLY confused as to why, because Mecca, CA smells funny.)

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by Muaddib


I know some people keep using that as a reason for bashing the president, but do you know in what context did he say that?... What was happening at that moment that he said that?... Was that comment made when Katrina happened?, if it was so then yes, at that moment the real issue was to concentrate on what was happening in the affected areas and not on Osama Bin Laden at that moment....

It wasn't during Katrina, it was during a press conference in 2002.

The Exact quote

"I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."

Now I'm not trying to spin this about bush bashing. I don't honestly think he's doing anything more then other presidents have in the past. What this does show is a good example of our political structure, how our politicians and even political figures use the heat of a moment from catastrophy, whether real or synthetic, to further theyre finacial gains.

Amen to that !!!! I don't care if it Dem,Repub,Green,Blue,Independ,or orange, they all do it but the Repubs do it the best and more than others

Originally posted by Muaddib

Perhaps you wanted for the president of the United States to wrestle the power away from the Mayor of N.O. and the Governor of Luisiana to make sure there was help getting to the victims faster...oh wait, you would have used this as another reason to bash away the government....silly me...


[edit on 31-8-2006 by Muaddib]

You said it ,... I didn't .........but since you did,.... heck yea, why not at least he would of been doing something good and right for a change in the USA.............

But oh, wait a minute,..... Bush can't do that.......... he's to busy planning on his next Attack and what country to do it to , seems how Bush decided to take over a whole country ( that did no harm to the USA ), I would think he could push the Mayor of N.O. and the Gov. of Luisiana out of the way too so he (bush) could put on a show of support and help for the victims of Katrina in order to bring up his ratings if for nothing else . He's War-Happy and everyone knows it .

You would think that the people our troops are fighting against would figure it out by now about Bush and his twisted way of thinking, heck he laughed at a woman prisoner that was begging him to spare her life and he Mocked her pleadings why giving the go-head to put her to death ( when he was Gov. of Tx ), more prisoners on death-row were put to death while he was Governor of Tx than any other State, then there's the people being kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq by those killers, you'd think they'd learned by now that Bush doesn't give an inch or care , no matter who it is that has to die for HIS cause.

You and I could go around and around Muaddib, but that's not what this thread is about so I think we should just "agree to disagree" and leave it at that

it was a terrible thing that happened in America
but unity has been gone for a long time where living in the age of the self
you cant trust your neighbours,doctors,school teachers etc..
its survival of the fittest
but 9/11 will never be forgotten

If you really want to make a sandwich for yourself, you can do it. But as long as you're driving through and picking up a sack of burgers and fries, you'll never get it. That's just the target the "terrorists" had in mind - they wanted to catch us in our blind spot. This thread is growing only because our reflexes have been lenghtened, NOT quickened.

The only way to win this war, if indeed you embrace the initiative, is to examine why we are consuming ourselves (both figuratively and literally) to death as a nation. The only reason that we are dying internally (you may call it spiritually if you wish) is that others outside our country see the drug of convenience we have made for ourselves and want it desperately.

Let's not give them what they most want. Make yourself a sandwich today. Two pieces of bread and all.

Every Year this date rolls around and I go into a little state of depression. I was sent to WTC right after 911 to help get telecommunications back up. I worked in 140 West St., which sits directly on the west side of WTC 7, and directly north of WTC 6. I was there for @ 2 weeks after the tragedy. . . I remember going home, sitting on my couch, and balling my eyes out because of everything I had seen. It was also the first time I had felt safe in two weeks. . .

I've made a list of things that I will never be able to forget, and I would like to share them with you all. Maybe it will help some of you not forget also. . .

* Looking into that huge pit of destruction and the scale of it. I remember watching the news in my hotel at night and saying to myself. " It just doesn't capture the scope of this. . ." It felt so sureal that it seemed to not be real. . . More like a movie set.

* The "thirty yard stare" on most faces, especially the firemen digging in that hole, trying to find any of their buddies that may still be alive.

* Praying that they would find at least one of them alive so it may comfort them in some way.

* Dreading the sound of an ambulance backing up into the pit because they have found more human remains.

* The guys that we called the "canaries" that would get into a double steel cage with an actylene torch, get lifted into the air over that pile by a crane, and cut off @ 45' of twisted steel that was lassoed by another crane. When they completed the cut they would pull their arms in, shut off the torch, and hang on because the steel would clang off the cage as it swayed back & fourth. I met one of them on the Red Cross ship at lunch. I told him he made me really happy with what I do for work. . .

* The rescue dogs that were outfitted with GPS beacon, little booties on their paws, even I.D. tags. A woman passed me with three dogs on leashes. I remember thinking how wierd it was that they were happily wagging their tails. They had no idea what was going on. How I envied them. . .

* The darkness, and heat in the building. We had to smash the windows to cool the building down. We had to smash walls out to bring in portable air conditioners in on cranes. We wore little flashlights on our hard hats to see most places. No electric, water, bathrooms, elevators. Every staircase floor had a maintenance person that moped up & down the stairs day & night to keep the dust/asbestos down to a minimum.

* The two occaisions where an emergency alarm to evacuate the building was sounded and everyone running & falling down those hot, wet, dark staircases. I kept looking up above me to see if the building was coming down on us. Everyone was screaming & crying. We got to the street only to find out that it was a false alarm. People got hurt.

* The "wet fire" smell that permiated everything.

* The "deer in the headlights" look of New Yorkers. A car backfired one night near the Harley Davidson Cafe and people started running & hitting the deck. A woman next to me was crying and saying, " I can't take this anyonre!".

* How ironic it was that the weather was so beautiful during that stretch of time. It made it a lot easier on everyone that it wasn't cold & wet.

* The containers that lined the streets. There were no sidewalks. . . But there was a constant flow of ten wheel dump trucks carrying debris to Staten Island & NJ. As they passed, I would put my back up against the container, take off my hard hat so it wouldn't get blown off, look into the eyes of the drivers, and pray that they didn't sneeze as they passed me & crush me into the container. It was very scary walking around. Over 1500 people had been injured working there by the time I left. One guy blew the manhole covers off when he lit a torch under the street & set off a pocket of methane.

* The "river" that Vessey St. turned into as every building in the area had a firehose pumping out their basement levels because they were filling up.

I could go on & on because I will never be able to forget that time in my life. I will never be able to let go of the sadness I felt for all the people who died, and the loved ones them left behind. Ihave some pictures posted on this thread;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If any of you have any questions, comments I would be happy to answer them for you if I can. Thanx for listening. . .

This is a thread about 9/11, not Bush, and to state the deaths of 3000 innocent people in ONE day, ONE day is nothing to just shrug off and forget like a sale at Wal-Mart makes me sick, no matter what country you are from.

It showed people that they are human, no better than anyone else and for a few fleeting moments the US felt humility. Now we are back to the 3/1 ARM loans, Starbucks and Hummer H3's. We recieved a wake up call not to attack our own government, but to realize that we are shielded from the real world as some type of half assed modern day Rome.

Remember the faces, never forget the names.

The time surrounding the "event" for me is one of turmoil, at best. It's been a celebration of mine for some time to "vent".
Typically, this is considered to be "out of line", but hey; I'm known for not caring what others think.

I don't think America has forgotten, they try to forget. Never happened.