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How can you be sure [Insert Religion here] is the true religion?

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posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by UnrealZA
All other worldviews contradict themselves from the start.

Eastern religions claim that all is an illusion yet in order for one to make that claim they must know what reality is, hence the only illusion is the one they create.

Atheism, evolutionists (empiricism) claim that only by empirical methods can one know anything. There is no God, no supernatural, nothing metaphysical. All things can be accounted for by science/evidence. Yet this worldview, along with all others, cannot account for how a blank mind gains knowledge by way of observation. Knowledge cannot come from observation.

All worldviews must use Biblical principals, even when seeking to discount God and His Word. Therefore Christianity is the only worldview that does not contradict itself. All others are in error.

Knowledge comes from all manner of places not just one place alltogether. And yes knowledge CAN come from observation (how much knowledge? - well thats a different story).
Where did you get the notion that ALL worldviews must use biblical principals when there are a few worldviews that predate the bible and all who sailed in her?
Christianity is not even 2000 years old although its basic principals have been around much longer and stolen from other worldviews.


G


No knowledge can come from observation alone. Please place that into syllogistic form if you can.

I have given a brief explanation in my first reply to this thread as to why you must use Biblical principles, even to denounce God. As an empiricist you cannot account for knowledge. The arguing continues yet no one has dealt with that.




posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar

How Can you be sure your religion is the right religion?


To quote my religious figure.


Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.



Everybodies religion is right, if its what they find, intheyre heart, to be true. There are many roads leading to the great path. The roads we all walk down which all share golden rules of virtue and life.

There is no wrong religion, if you believe your religion to be true.


That quote, while charming, confuses me. Can I then dismiss his statement based on my own reasoning and common sense? If so does it then make him universally wrong? For his statement is universal in that he applies it to everyone, everywhere.

Hitlers reasoning and common sense said he should kill Jews, Bin Ladens says that all people should be Muslim, if not they should die. Most reasonable people would point out that they are wrong but according to the quote above, they would be right!

Should there not be a guide or rule that tells us what is right and wrong, morally?

He uses the word "Believe" yet what's his definition of that word and by what authority does he impose it on all people everywhere? If his statement is based upon a relativist worldview then he must want all people everywhere to hold to it yet that would then make it an absolute thereby contradicting his worldview of relativism.

Your very reply conflicts with the very statement you quote for you wish us to believe that everyones religion is right, yet you're wrong.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA

Originally posted by shihulud

Knowledge comes from all manner of places not just one place alltogether. And yes knowledge CAN come from observation (how much knowledge? - well thats a different story).
Where did you get the notion that ALL worldviews must use biblical principals when there are a few worldviews that predate the bible and all who sailed in her?
Christianity is not even 2000 years old although its basic principals have been around much longer and stolen from other worldviews.

G


No knowledge can come from observation alone. Please place that into syllogistic form if you can.

I have given a brief explanation in my first reply to this thread as to why you must use Biblical principles, even to denounce God. As an empiricist you cannot account for knowledge. The arguing continues yet no one has dealt with that.

Dont you gain information everyday through what you see?. If you see a car coming (even if you never knew what a car was) you 'know' that there is movement, you know that it is a shape, a colour. As I said (how much knowledge? - well thats a different story). Knowledge is nothing without understanding.
God's existed (in peoples minds) way before the bible made its debut so I still argue that you wouldnt need biblical principals to denounce gods but granted you would need to when denouncing the christian god.
Also what do you mean I cannot account for knowledge? Can you account for a god?


G



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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Once again, without having knowledge PRIOR to observation how do you KNOW you are observing?

If I observe a sunset, in order for me to know I am observing anything at all I must first have knowledge that I am in fact observing something, witnessing something, watching something.

If our senses provide us with knowledge FROM observing then which of my senses tell me it is a sun, tell me what colors there are, tell me it is dark after the sun sets?

Did I smell the sunset, taste it, hear it, touch it? You would state no, you SAW the sunset so your eyes have observed and through this you have gained knowledge that it is a sunset. This though is again placing the cart before the horse for I MUST first have knowledge to KNOW I am SEEING anything in the first place. If not how then do I know it is a sun, how do I know the concept of setting, of down and darkness?

The empirical worldview cannot account for knowledge.



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA
Once again, without having knowledge PRIOR to observation how do you KNOW you are observing?

If I observe a sunset, in order for me to know I am observing anything at all I must first have knowledge that I am in fact observing something, witnessing something, watching something.

If our senses provide us with knowledge FROM observing then which of my senses tell me it is a sun, tell me what colors there are, tell me it is dark after the sun sets?

Did I smell the sunset, taste it, hear it, touch it? You would state no, you SAW the sunset so your eyes have observed and through this you have gained knowledge that it is a sunset. This though is again placing the cart before the horse for I MUST first have knowledge to KNOW I am SEEING anything in the first place. If not how then do I know it is a sun, how do I know the concept of setting, of down and darkness?

The empirical worldview cannot account for knowledge.

None of our senses can tell you its a sun nor tell you its colour, but by looking you can know that there is an object that gives off light and heat etc. There is information there in what you see - and yes you do know that you are seeing without having to be told. I mean are you trying to tell me that animals dont know things?
You cannot possibly be stating that all knowledge comes from god are you????

G



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 09:25 AM
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I am stating that the very essence of knowledge comes from God. Everyone is born with an innate knowledge of God.

Let me use here an analogy. You're using a computer. You are able to use that computer because of the hard drive and the information contained in it. It takes in information and also sends out information. When I build a PC I hook up a blank hard drive but before that blank hard drive can be useful to write, store and send information I must program it. I must format it. If not I can sit all day turning off and on that computer, tap all day long on the keys and it won't do anything. It just sits there.

Now the empirical worldview states that we are born with a blank slate, a blank "hard drive" if you will. Just like a PC hardrive does nothing without being programmed so we too would do nothing, would know nothing without first being programmed. Now a blank hard drive cannot program itself and likewise our blank brains cannot program themselves either....no matter how long we would stare at a table with a vase on it we would never come to the realization that it's a table nor a vase. No matter how long we felt it, tasted it, smelled it....it would give us no knowledge because in order for me to KNOW it is a table by way of observation I must first have knowledge to know I am observing anything at all. If not then I am nothing but a blank mind.

So just as the hard drive needs a programmer outside of itself to program it, God programs our minds with "knowledge" so that we can write, store and send information.

This is an area that perhaps you, and many others, have never given any real deep thought. I ask that you think deeply upon it. I win no points, money nor prize if you agree nor am I at a loss if you ignore it and disagree. I only ask that you ponder upon it and think deeply.



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by UnrealZA

That quote, while charming, confuses me.


It happens to the best of us.


Can I then dismiss his statement based on my own reasoning and common sense?


If his reasoning and words do not apply to your own, and does not make sense to you, ofcourse. Buddhism offers one of many paths to the great road. We do not throw scare tactics out at you proclaiming you will be eternally damned if you dont join us. We give you the teachings of Buddha, his teachings on how to become better, enlightened, and in peace with yourself and humanity. If it does not feel right to you, then its just not for you, thats fine.


If so does it then make him universally wrong? For his statement is universal in that he applies it to everyone, everywhere.


No, it makes him wrong to you, thats all.


Hitlers reasoning and common sense said he should kill Jews,


Actually that was a political maneuver not done by hitler but infact his highest officials whom got together at a bed and breakfast and made a finacial decision on what to do with the Jews. Hitlers reasoning was that an all german Germany is a better Germany.


Bin Ladens says that all people should be Muslim, if not they should die. Most reasonable people would point out that they are wrong but according to the quote above, they would be right!


That is his reasoning, it would not make him right to kill people, but if he truly believes it, its his belief. To him, it is right.


Should there not be a guide or rule that tells us what is right and wrong, morally?


I believe there is. Typically its called the Golden Rule. In Buddhism, we follow the Eightfold path. We believe that all suffering is caused by ourselves and humanity. And if we follow the eightfold path, we reduce the suffering in our lives, and stop causing suffering in others due to cause and effect.

Every religion has a guideline on what they feel is right and wrong, but its important not to press your morality on others.


He uses the word "Believe" yet what's his definition of that word and by what authority does he impose it on all people everywhere?


Buddha did not need, or want people to follow him. He taught what he learned, about life, enlightenment, and the universe. Those of us whom listen and follow his teachings do it because we believed the words he spoke. I have to say that from your reply, you do not have a firm understanding on Buddhism. Its not surprising, most people don't.

I'd just simply ask you not pass judgement so hastefully, on something you do not fully understand yet.

Judge yest ye not be judged, right?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by UnrealZA

That quote, while charming, confuses me.


It happens to the best of us.


Can I then dismiss his statement based on my own reasoning and common sense?


If his reasoning and words do not apply to your own, and does not make sense to you, ofcourse. Buddhism offers one of many paths to the great road. We do not throw scare tactics out at you proclaiming you will be eternally damned if you dont join us. We give you the teachings of Buddha, his teachings on how to become better, enlightened, and in peace with yourself and humanity. If it does not feel right to you, then its just not for you, thats fine.


If so does it then make him universally wrong? For his statement is universal in that he applies it to everyone, everywhere.


No, it makes him wrong to you, thats all.


Hitlers reasoning and common sense said he should kill Jews,


Actually that was a political maneuver not done by hitler but infact his highest officials whom got together at a bed and breakfast and made a finacial decision on what to do with the Jews. Hitlers reasoning was that an all german Germany is a better Germany.


Bin Ladens says that all people should be Muslim, if not they should die. Most reasonable people would point out that they are wrong but according to the quote above, they would be right!


That is his reasoning, it would not make him right to kill people, but if he truly believes it, its his belief. To him, it is right.


Should there not be a guide or rule that tells us what is right and wrong, morally?


I believe there is. Typically its called the Golden Rule. In Buddhism, we follow the Eightfold path. We believe that all suffering is caused by ourselves and humanity. And if we follow the eightfold path, we reduce the suffering in our lives, and stop causing suffering in others due to cause and effect.

Every religion has a guideline on what they feel is right and wrong, but its important not to press your morality on others.


He uses the word "Believe" yet what's his definition of that word and by what authority does he impose it on all people everywhere?


Buddha did not need, or want people to follow him. He taught what he learned, about life, enlightenment, and the universe. Those of us whom listen and follow his teachings do it because we believed the words he spoke. I have to say that from your reply, you do not have a firm understanding on Buddhism. Its not surprising, most people don't.

I'd just simply ask you not pass judgement so hastefully, on something you do not fully understand yet.

Judge yest ye not be judged, right?


I actually have a fair understanding of Buddhism. This is how I know it is a contradictory worldview and cannot stand.

Also, if I am a Muslim can I become a Buddhist yet still hold to my Muslim tenets?

Lastly, "Judge yest ye not be judged" is incorrect and not found in the King James Bible, nor any Bible. Obviously you don't have a clear understanding of the Bible or Theology. Most people don't though (Obvious typo on your part, this I understand).

That passage in Matthew 7 though is about judging another in a hypocritical manner. For example, telling another to stop committing adultery while in fact they themselves are. It has nothing to do with me judging Buddhism to be false.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 10:32 PM
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I seems that especially christians and muslims are the most arrogant about their religion, how come? (Christians especially)


Isnt the Jewish Rreligion just as bad as the other two?

My answer would be to this, no one's religion is the right religion.

Others might disagree.

But that is the way I feel when it comes to religion.

Iif you believe in yourself, and God then I do not need any religion. To preach to me what is right and what is wrong




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