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I believe religion is simple brainwash

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posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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I grew up in a small town of a few thousand people. Nearly everyone belonged to the same church and even though we attended church in different buildings we had interaction community wide because of it. We all knew one another because of it. There was a real sense of community and everything it lead to was positive. Even our school teachers were an active part of the community. As children we could not get away with anything and the church kept us so busy we seldom had opportunity to do wrong. If the police, who also were involved in the church, caught us doing wrong they drove us home knocked on the door and told our parents. It was a infinitely better place than the world I live in now.

There were no gangs. Only a couple of kids got involved with drugs and they were from families that moved there from other towns and a couple of locals who got involved with them. There was only one murder in the cities 150 year history and that was a drunken couple who moved into a house a block from mine. The worst thing I can ever remember happening in school was a cherry bomb set off in a bathroom and a flask of rotten egg gas being put into the ventilation system. I was guilty of the later. A little hydrochloric acid and some iron sulfate (sulfide?) and you have a smelly situation We never even considered doing the things that are happening in schools now. We never had to lock a door and we helped each other and cared about our neighbors. As children the whole town was our backyard. Fences were rare (except to contain animals) and if someone saw us playing in their yard they did not call the police, they brought us lemonade or a cookie. The elderly were revered and had no fear of young people. If any adult told us to do something we complied because we knew to respect age and authority. There were no homeless people although we did have one hermit who attended church every Sunday without fail. He was treated the same as everyone else. The church was our extended family and there was always someone willing to help with a place to stay and some kind of work. Another very important detail is the level of education was so superior to the secular version now that there is no way to compare them. If you could not read and write you could not get past fifth grade. After two tries you went to special classes and then attended a trade school where you learned a skill like carpentry or welding. By the time you were an adult you had a way to earn a living and there were no drop outs. No one was left behind because they were not seen as inferior but as having different skills.

Now I live in a community with nothing to bind us together as a community. Some claim to be in a church but they don’t attend or practice their faith. I’ve lived in my current house 3 years (nice neighborhood in a good part of town). When I smile and wave at my neighbors they turn their heads or glare at me. There children are never outside and I never see anyone visiting each other. Drive by shootings, by children, is commonplace. If I see a kid in my yard I have to call the police because they are definitely up to no good. Drugs are everywhere and assaults and armed robberies are a daily occurrence. I keep a gun under my desk because I’ve been attacked by people who have wandered in off the street twice in the last three years. People pull into my parking lot and sell crack out of their cars almost daily. The neighborhood my office is in is about the size of my childhood home town and there are 4 or 5 murders within a few blocks every year. The store next to my office was robbed last year. The convenience store a block away was robbed at gun point 2 years ago. The guy who owns the shop 3 doors from me was bound and gagged while they cleaned him out about 5 years ago. Nobody knows their neighbors and when they come knocking they usually want something. The elderly are left on there own and I had to take the Mayor to task to get him to clear the snow from the sidewalks so the elderly could get to the store for food.

After experiencing both realities, if I had to choose between a world with religion or one without; I’ll go with the religious community. What you would call brainwashing might be more correctly called teaching good values. Children can only get this in the home and not through a secular school or in a day care center. The church is a good defense against the alternatives like hanging out with unsupervised children from parents who don’t care because they themselves lack any values beyond making and spending money. They are not going to learn values hanging out in a neighborhood center where nobody cares about them and supervising them is left up to someone who could not get any other job. They can’t learn good values while unsupervised at home while their parents do more important stuff like working a second job to buy a house they don’t need or so they can drive an expensive car. They can’t learn values in a neighborhood where the neighbors could care less about them and would never pick up a phone to tell their parents anything.

You go ahead and call it brainwashing if you want. All the evidence indicates that teaching values based on a Judeo-Christian system of beliefs is far preferable to the opposite. This horrible world we live in now.




posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 04:35 PM
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Funny how some people think of the Christian religion as some type of brainwashing exercise that enslaves its own believers when the complete opposite is true....Christianity, the belief in Jesus Christ, has the power to set your physical and spiritual body free.

Blessings...



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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~~

brainwashing, No
because the believers are voluntary...brainwashing implies a forceable takeover

the 'Stockholm Syndrome' is an example of brainwashing,
'deprogramming' is the remedy for brainwashing from cult indoctrination....

organized religion is more appropriately recognized as a lifestyle or a philosophy
which one has voluntarily accepted and eagerly promotes to others...
hardly classical brainwashing

to my eyes, religions are usefull moral-social instruments,
until radical or militaristic agendas are made part of that ideology & framework for one's conduct in society.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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Please be aware that my posts mostly contain information from ETs whether it be direct communication or channeled sources.
Many people are like robots now a days and require collection of hard evidence and proof. I, on the other hand, make an effort to exercise my spiritual mind and spiritual evolution/growth by staying healthy, feeling the truth and and understanding the life situation as a whole to explain ALL situations and unexplained events.
There is a major situation going on with Earth and humanity as we know it. This situation has to do with who and how this planet is being controlled from the higher dimensions. Religion plays a major role. But, the biggest is our ability to evolve properly from our situations.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by realanswers

There is a major situation going on with Earth and humanity as we know it.


I could not agree more. It is a very personal thing and reasons for believing, whether it is religion or Aliens, are very diverse. My beliefs were formed by personal experiences that can not be used as a proof for others. Each one of us must find our own way in these matters. Brainwashing does not describe the process at all. I suppose some had bad experiences with overzealous parents. It is not the religion that leads to bad things. It's the people who pretend to believe that cause the atrocities attributed to religion. The concept of caring about others and teaching good values could hardly be brainwashing. If it is left up to the world to teach our children we are in deep doo doo. To teach them there is no higher authority amounts to child abuse and leaves them with no foundation for there behavior. It need not be a particular religion but it is important children are exposed to the right kind of people while their value system is forming. Church just happens to be a great place to do that.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Alpha-Omega. I am very sorry that you had such a negative experience with religion. Although I must say, most of the fanatical Christians I know will actually disown their children for drinking alcohol...not encourage alcoholism. Everyone's experiences are different and just because you had a really messed up experience with religion doesn't mean it's always that way.

My aunt tried to use catholicism to "save" my cousin, telling him about evil and that if he didn't start behaving he would go to hell. My cousin is now 18 and has been in a mental institution for the last three years because he claimed he was talking to the devil. I know all about the dark side of religion because of that.

However there are other people who's lives are better because of religion, and as long as they don't try to force me into believing what they believe...more power to them.

So, some over-zealous religious fanatics will absolutly try to brainwash others with religion, but not all religious people will do that.



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian

However there are other people who's lives are better because of religion, and as long as they don't try to force me into believing what they believe...more power to them.


The wisest words spoken in this conversation so far. Another persons path is just that, another persons path. As long as they are happy with the struggle and happy with their beliefs, More power too them



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 07:22 PM
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I chose to be a Christain , I was taught evolution through school ,television and books since my youth. Which one is brainwashing or an indoctronation? No matter how you slice it or dice it , atheism and the belief in evolution is just as much faith based as any religion. I say in the beginning God, evoltionist say in the beginning nothing pulled in on itself spun super heated exploded and created everything. To me that takes more faith to believe than in a creator but thats just me..



posted on Sep, 5 2006 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by alpha_omega

What I did observe, is that religion uses the word of God to frighten people into behaving. ....... ..... All that religion really does, is instill regulations to a person, that will be followed in the fear of threat.


So is religion really your problem, or is "FEAR" your only justification for considering religions as "brainwashing"?

To read through your explanation it would seem fear is your only true justification for hating religion enough to call it "brainwashing".

So what is fear, and is religion responsible for it?

Fear was already present within your gambet of emotions long before your "introduction" to religion. Fear is the result of the instinct that existed even prior to your conception, prior to the moment the sperm met the egg. Fear is how you were destined to respond internally towards environmental stimuli that threatened you. We fear because of the primary command that each and every cell within us is encoded with. And what was this first accepted truth we have?

The instinct of "Self Preserve".

But, what does it mean?

Self = Self, aka ME
Pre = Before
Serve = To Serve, Aid, Help

Is it not fair to say that people fear the unknown? Is it not an inherent human characteristic that is a by-product of the instinct of "Self Preserve"?

What internal mechanism exists that is powerful enough to provide us a means to conquer our own internal fears, to include our subconscious fears?


This trend is the same in people who observe violence from a very young age. They tend to be more violent themselves when they become older.


What is the opposite of LOVE?

What do you think the opposite of LOVE is?

Hate?

Are you sure HATE is the opposite of LOVE?

I disagree.

Hate might be what people are consciously aware of, but they obviously are not consciously aware of all their own thoughts.

If they were consciously aware of their own thoughts they would know the reason they hate, and they would know what the opposite of Love is as well.

How can a person justify their HATE for another person without first FEARING that the person they are HATING has the potential to take something/someone they LOVE away from them, or somehow deminish what they LOVE in some capacity?

Fear is Love's opposite. But in order for one to be consciously aware of this, they would first have to have the courage to go far enough into their own thought processes to retrieve this information.

So, what internal mechanism exists within an individual that supplies them all the tools necessary to re-arrange pre-accepted truths in order to re-write/reprogram one's own mind?

Do you ever defrag your computer?

Takes awhile doesn't it?

What was your first computer?

Wasn't it your brain?

1) Science is showing us that on average most humans are consciously aware of 2,000 bits of information per second. In other words the part of the brain that is the conscious part is firing off 2,000 sparks of electrical impulses between brain cells every second.

2) All sensory input (everything you touch,see,smell,taste, and hear) first get introduced to your subconscious mind.

3) The subconscious part of the mind is firing off 400,000,000,000 sparks of electricity per second between brain cells, and also holds a monopoly on all incoming information.

This is my opinion, based upon all i know coupled with a tough 30+ years of experience:
In order for the subconscious mind to relinquish your own thoughts to you, you must first overcome your conscious and subconscious fears.

Let's go back to the way the brain works.

Looking at the numbers, just drop 3 zeros off both figures and equate it to your own personal jet.

If we drop 3 zeros off both #s we would have:
2 instead of 2,000
and...
400,000,000 instead of 400,000,000,000

Now these are the #s for the speed of your own personal leer jet.

You have a personal aircraft capable of reaching a speed of 400 Million miles per hour, yet most are only travelling at a speed of 2 miles per hour.

Good luck getting off the ground!!!

So, i pose this question one more time:

What internal mechanism exists that permits a person to overcome their own fears?

Edited to Add:

I'm not sure mankind has the capability to go from the known to the unknown without conquiring fear, because we inherently fear the unknown, so fear must be overcome.

And considering that our minds work in accordance with the "Law of Association" what internal mechanism exists which empowers and enables us to discard the fears that bind us?

Without "religion" what other basis for comparison exists when we hold the New Information up to that which already is known in order to incorporate it into our neuro-net which operates in accordance with the "Law of Association"?

Fear will still exist if their is a void where spirituallity and religion should be.

So what would we have left for comparison of all we observe if religion fails, if not for the fears of others?

Wouldn't we then allow for ourselves to be defined by the fears of others?

Would we not still be afraid of not belonging?

Would we still be afraid of being alone?

In an existance devoid of any deity, what basis for comparison exists for us externally outside of the observance of nature and our own measure of others character and opinions?

Opinions are developed through the "Law of Association", coupled with the first accepted truths that we accept as fact.

And the first fact that you accepted as truth was "I am Self Before I Serve (anyone or anything)"

I just fail to see how removing GOD from this world will allow anyone to overcome their fears in order to gain conscious control over the 99.999999997% of their own thoughts that they are not consciously aware of now.

[edit on 5-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by AlteredStates
I chose to be a Christain , I was taught evolution through school ,television and books since my youth. Which one is brainwashing or an indoctronation? No matter how you slice it or dice it , atheism and the belief in evolution is just as much faith based as any religion. I say in the beginning God, evoltionist say in the beginning nothing pulled in on itself spun super heated exploded and created everything. To me that takes more faith to believe than in a creator but thats just me..
Evolution doesn't go against chritianity. Also being an atheist doesn't mean the person believes in evolution.



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 06:40 PM
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Esoteric Teacher -- I will work on a reply to your extremely... extremely long reply.
So bare with me and I have not forgotten about it.

First off, thank you all for thoroughly reading my post before you replied, I can tell that you all have thought about what I have said. I've been on all-too-many forums which don't have such thought out replies.



Posted By: Blaine91555
You go ahead and call it brainwashing if you want. All the evidence indicates that teaching values based on a Judeo-Christian system of beliefs is far preferable to the opposite. This horrible world we live in now.



Posted By: kinglizard
Funny how some people think of the Christian religion as some type of brainwashing exercise that enslaves its own believers when the complete opposite is true....Christianity, the belief in Jesus Christ, has the power to set your physical and spiritual body free.



Posted By: St Udio
brainwashing, No
because the believers are voluntary...brainwashing implies a forceable takeover



Posted By: snowflake_obsidian
So, some over-zealous religious fanatics will absolutly try to brainwash others with religion, but not all religious people will do that.

All of you used the term brainwash in some-what of the same way, and claim that believing is voluntary. What my closing arguement stated, said that if it truely were voluntary (choosing after the mind has developed and the body has been educated), then I believe that less people would believe in God.

Just for review:


Posted By: Myself
I believe, that if people are not introduced to religion until their mind has grown, and until they've had a basic schooling, such as high school, more people would be atheist. Their reason and thoughts would tend to lean away from such a vast claim.


As I was trying to prove... trends that are instilled in a childs mind will stay there for a lifetime, and are extremely hard to change. A childs mind is a clean slate, and they won't be able to tell right from wrong. You can tell a child anything, and they will believe it.

The brainwash in which I mentioned, is true because of this age handicap. I truely believe, that if religion were introduced to people at a later point in life, they would have no interest in it.




Posted By: snowflake_obsidian
Alpha-Omega. I am very sorry that you had such a negative experience with religion. Although I must say, most of the fanatical Christians I know will actually disown their children for drinking alcohol...not encourage alcoholism. Everyone's experiences are different and just because you had a really messed up experience with religion doesn't mean it's always that way.

You sir, are a wise person.
I never had a negative experience with religion, rather the personal, family area of my life. The alcohol story, was to help prove the instillation process which occurs within a child's mind. I only knew of alcohol as a good thing. I only knew of it as something I wanted to do. By the time I was introduced to the facts of it's damaging effects, my mind was already focused on the positive, and the control. It took a lot to change my mind, to change my brainwash. So in the religion-alcohol correlation, there is none, it was just an example of blank-mind brainwash.

I stated my reasons for not believing, as it had nothing to do with my experience. It had to do with my questions, and the fact that none of my questions were answered. Religion supplies people with answers for life, yet there are no answers for religion.



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 07:09 PM
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My reply to Esoteric Teacher




So is religion really your problem, or is "FEAR" your only justification for considering religions as "brainwashing"?

Fear? What is it that I have to fear? Please explain how religion is my problem? My justification for considering religion a brainwash is in the fact that religion is often introduced to believers since birth, with a clean mind state to believe anything.



To read through your explanation it would seem fear is your only true justification for hating religion enough to call it "brainwashing".

Once again, what exactly are you talking about? Are you trying to tell my that I fear religion, and that’s why I hate it? Did you even read why I believe it’s brainwash, or did you just read the thread title?



So what is fear, and is religion responsible for it?

Religion is responsible for fear. I personally, have nothing to fear. My actions are as free as the morning sky, no action of mine will result in my ultimate demise for eternity. For religious people, they must fear their own actions. They must constantly fear their mistakes, for it may force them into an eternity of fiery hell. Believers have something to fear, I do not.



Fear was already present within your gambet of emotions long before your "introduction" to religion. Fear is the result of the instinct that existed even prior to your conception, prior to the moment the sperm met the egg. Fear is how you were destined to respond internally towards environmental stimuli that threatened you. We fear because of the primary command that each and every cell within us is encoded with. [B]And what was this first accepted truth we have?[/B]

As far as I’m concerned, the belief in God is. Before reason is taught, religion is introduced. The one year old child that attends church will soon be introduced to the belief in God, and it will be the first accepted truth of life he obtains, regardless of the lack of evidence.



Is it not fair to say that people fear the unknown? Is it not an inherent human characteristic that is a by-product of the instinct of "Self Preserve"?

Exactly. People fear the unknown. People fear what will happen to them when they die, where they will go, what their significance is. To appease this fear, they believe in God. I do not fear the unknown, I do not fear death, and I do not fear my significance. It is what it is. Many people need to “know’ this, or else they fear it, and religion provides this “know.”



What internal mechanism exists that is powerful enough to provide us a means to conquer our own internal fears, to include our subconscious fears?
quote:
This trend is the same in people who observe violence from a very young age. They tend to be more violent themselves when they become older.


What is the opposite of LOVE?

What do you think the opposite of LOVE is?

Hate?

Are you sure HATE is the opposite of LOVE? ………………………………………………………………………………..ladedadedeadjjfksdjflsjl;ajdf

Interesting points in there… although I don’t necessarily agree… and I don’t see how any of that, relates to what we are talking about. I truly believe, you don’t either.




I just fail to see how removing GOD from this world will allow anyone to overcome their fears in order to gain conscious control over the 99.999999997% of their own thoughts that they are not consciously aware of now.

Uhhhh? Not quite sure what you’re talking about, yet again. God supplies two sets of fears. It remedies the fear of the unknown… and it sets in place new fears pertaining to actions of the individual.



[edit on 6-9-2006 by alpha_omega]



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 11:03 PM
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First let me state that i truly believe you are currently in a state of denial, denying yourself knowledge of that which truly motivates peoples intentionality, and denial in regards to how the physiology of the human mind works, especially your own.

I don't want you to change your opinions at all as a result of my words, i only would incourage you to follow your path, and your reasonning to it's own logical end, but i know you are not there, yet.

I recently authored a thread in the "Faith, Spirituality, and Theology" Forum entitled something like: "Finish this Sentence, What is wrong with organized religion is:", or something like that.

At any rate, it parrallels many of your precepts and ideas. We may be in agreement, but you may not be fully aware of how much.



Originally posted by alpha_omega
My reply to Esoteric Teacher




So is religion really your problem, or is "FEAR" your only justification for considering religions as "brainwashing"?

Fear? What is it that I have to fear? Please explain how religion is my problem? My justification for considering religion a brainwash is in the fact that religion is often introduced to believers since birth, with a clean mind state to believe anything.


Your words were my justification for pointing out that fear was your problem with religion. Your chosen words said as much:


What I did observe, is that religion uses the word of God to frighten people into behaving. There are rules and guidelines that people must follow, in order to go to "heaven." I remember people behaving in a certain way all the time, not cussing, and in my teen years, not having sex, because of their faith in God. All that religion really does, ....... followed in the fear of threat.


Your words said that fear was the problem with religion. I say if religion is removed, fear remains.




To read through your explanation it would seem fear is your only true justification for hating religion enough to call it "brainwashing".

Once again, what exactly are you talking about? Are you trying to tell my that I fear religion, and that’s why I hate it? Did you even read why I believe it’s brainwash, or did you just read the thread title?

Yes, i read your post. And to read through the words i can see that your justification in the second or third paragraph after the biographical information on your catholic childhood was statements that said:


What I did observe, is that religion uses the word of God to frighten people into behaving. There are rules and guidelines that people must follow, in order to go to "heaven." I remember people behaving in a certain way all the time, not cussing, and in my teen years, not having sex, because of their faith in God. All that religion really does, is instill regulations to a person, that will be followed in the fear of threat.






So what is fear, and is religion responsible for it?

Religion is responsible for fear.


I refer you to the first statement of this post: You are in denial. In one statement you say Religion is responsible for fear. Yet, you also say that fear of the unknown coupled with the fact humans had the capacity to contemplate their own death is how religion came to be.

According to your logic, and your statements, Religion is responsible for fear existing in the human psychi, and fear is responsible for religion existing in the human psychi. Does this make sense?

I personally, have nothing to fear. My actions are as free as the morning sky, no action of mine will result in my ultimate demise for eternity. For religious people, they must fear their own actions. They must constantly fear their mistakes, for it may force them into an eternity of fiery hell. Believers have something to fear, I do not.




Fear was already present within your gambet of emotions long before your "introduction" to religion. Fear is the result of the instinct that existed even prior to your conception, prior to the moment the sperm met the egg. Fear is how you were destined to respond internally towards environmental stimuli that threatened you. We fear because of the primary command that each and every cell within us is encoded with. [B]And what was this first accepted truth we have?[/B]

As far as I’m concerned, the belief in God is. Before reason is taught, religion is introduced. The one year old child that attends church will soon be introduced to the belief in God, and it will be the first accepted truth of life he obtains, regardless of the lack of evidence.


I simply do not fault you, i feel our genetics is what has fractionalized the human mind, and seperated our conscious experiences from something within us that is connected to everything else.

Stay your path. Follow your reasonning.

But above all, look inwards, and remain true to yourself.

Peace,
John




[edit on 6-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



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