It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
“ . . the rifle was war surplus. The most infamous or notorious example of a Carcano was the M 91/38 short rifle in 6.5 x 52 mm, made in the Terni arsenal in 1940 and bearing the serial number C2766, which was used by LHO on November 22, 1963 to assassinate JFK in Dallas, Tx. Oswald had purchased the surplus rifle, along with a 4x telescopic sight, from Klein's sporting goods mail order firm in Chicago for $19.95.
Although this rifle is often called "Mannlicher-Carcano" Its official designation in Italian is simply Mod. '91 ("il novantuno"). The name Mannlicher-Carcano is also misleading because the rifle's bolt action was based on the German Mauser-style bolt action, not the Austrian Mannlicher-style. The Mannlicher designation comes from the fact that the rifle uses a Mannlicher-type magazine system.”
posted by Tuning Spork
posted by GradyPhilpott[/I]
Oswald wasn't in the Army, he was in the Marine Corps. Marine Corps marksmanship training is the best in the world. Oswald was more than capable of making the shots that killed Kennedy.
Why not? I've used aluminum tubing as blowguns, using nothing but nails with paper cones fastened with Scotch tape as projectiles, and hit bulls-eyes the size of a baseball at 15 yards. Why couldn't a "cheap" Italian rifle, using heavy rounds and with a scope, hit a target the size of a basketball at 120 yards? [Edited by Don W]
However, in 1992 Congress enacted the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992. Congress questioned the legitimate need for continued protection of such records after three decades of secrecy. The purpose of the Act was to gather and accelerate the public release of assassination related documents.
The Act requires all documents related to the assassination that have not been destroyed to be released to the public by no later than 2017.
From 1992 until 1998, the Assassination Records Review Board gathered and unsealed many documents. However, tens of thousands of pages of other documents will remain classified and sealed, away from the public until 2017, including:
* 3+% of all Warren Commission documents
* 21+% of the House Select Committee on Assassinations documents
* An undeterminable percentage of CIA, FBI, Secret Service, National Security Agency, State Department, US Marine Corps, Naval Investigative Service, Defense Investigative Service, and many other US government documents
1976 HSCA Committee Members
* Louis Stokes, (D-Ohio), Chairman
* Richardson Preyer, (R-North Carolina)
* Walter E. Fauntroy, (D-District of Columbia)
* Yvonne Brathwaite Burke, (D-California)
* Christopher Dodd, (D-Connecticut)
* Harold Ford, Sr., (D-Tennessee)
* Floyd Fithian, (R-Indiana)
* Robert Edgar, (D-Pennsylvania)
* Samuel DeVine, (R-Ohio)
* Stewart McKinley, (R-Connecticut)
* Charles Thone, (D-Nebraska)
* Harold Sawyer, (R-Michigan)
"On May 19, 2044, the 50th anniversary of the death of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, if her last child has died, the Kennedy library will release to the public a 500-page transcript of an oral history about John F. Kennedy given by Mrs. Kennedy before her death in 1994.
posted by BartIV
Makes you wonder why Jackie Kennedy would make an oral of JFK and then keep it hidden until her last child has died . . talks about his affairs with maybe Marilyn Monroe, her time in the White House, For it to be hidden for 50 years after her death, it has to be pretty good stuff.
I heard that JFK Jr. was trying to open up some documents earlier than they were supposed to be, is this true? [Edited by Don W]
posted by forestlady
I appreciate your post. You have the honor of being the first person I've known to believe the Warren report, and were old enough to remember that horrible day. Allen Dulles was indeed a sleazeball . . Ford was likable, and Mr. Warren did some good things. But as for their honesty, I don't know. If you get to that kind of very powerful political position, the chances are very high that somewhere along the line, at least once, they were bought or somehow silenced or were dishonest . . you don't get very far unless you are a very rare and lucky person. And then there's also the threat of retribution by the powers-that-be . . I just can't buy the "magic bullet" theory, too far-fetched, in my opinion. [Edited by Don W]
Originally posted by Tuning Spork
Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Are you saying the bullet came from behind, crated a huge explosion of brain matter and then exited through the front
Sounds backwards to me. Seems like the entry wound (in front of JFK) is small and the huge, gaping hole in the back is the exit wound.
Yes, the entry wound was at the back and the exit wound was the large wound created by the explosion.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you notice any holes below the occiput, say, in this area below here?
Dr. PETERS. No, I did not and at the time and the moments immediately following the injury, we speculated as to whether he had been shot once or twice because we saw the wound of entry in the throat and noted the large occipital wound, and it is a known fact that high velocity missiles often have a small wound of entrance and a large wound of exit, and I'm just giving you my honest impressions at the time.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any wounds on him at the time you first saw him?
Dr. AKIN. There was a midline neck wound below the level of the cricoid cartilage, about 1 to 1.5 cm. in diameter, the lower part of this had been cut across when I saw the wound, it had been cut across with a knife in the performance of the tracheotomy. The back of the right occipitalparietal portion of his head was shattered, with brain substance extruding.
posted by BartIV
The first two shots are explainable. The first shot missed completely. The second came from behind hitting his back exiting his throat. The last shot is the most confusing. If the shot had come from behind there would have been a small entrance wound in the back of the head and a large exit wound coming out the front. [Edited by Don W]
Originally posted by donwhite
Start with what we do know, indisputably, and move from there. When you find contradictions in observer's accounts, take the easy way out and say they were mixed up. In a state of shock. It’s simple if you look at it this way. Always take the simple way, it is almost always the right way.
posted by DontTreadOnMe
That's the problem, Don. There is so little we know indisputably. Do we go with the WC report or the House Report?
I sincerely believe trained medical people aren't going to be all confused, distraught when they are doing their jobs. You aren't giving professional people much credit.
Tell me, Don, do you believe EVERYTHING the government tells you? And don't think I'm someone swayed by partisanship. I've held fast to my belief in this conspiracy no matter which party I've voted for. [Edited by Don W]
The House Assassinations Committee may have been right after all: There was a shot from the grassy knoll.
That was the key finding of the congressional investigation that concluded 22 years ago that President John F. Kennedy's murder in Dallas in 1963 was "probably . . . the result of a conspiracy." A shot from the grassy knoll meant that two gunmen must have fired at the president within a split-second sequence. Lee Harvey Oswald, accused of firing three shots at Kennedy from a perch at the Texas School Book Depository, could not have been in two places at once.
posted by DontTreadOnMe
“ . . if the HSCA made a comment that there could have been a conspiracy, is it such a stretch to say that not only did LHO not act alone, but that he may not have been the one to fire the fatal shot . . “ [Edited by Don W]
The House Assassinations Committee . . key finding of the concluded that JFK's murder in Dallas in 1963 was "probably . . . the result of a conspiracy." A shot from the grassy knoll meant that two gunmen must have fired at the president within a split-second sequence. LHO, accused of firing three shots at Kennedy from a perch at the Texas School Book Depository, could not have been in two places at once. [Edited by Don W]
Originally posted by donwhite
If I was distraught, me at Tampa, how much more would a person be distraught if he was at Parkland General Hospital? Or a bystander at Dealey Plaza? With the president's blood, bones and brains on the street. Start with what we do know, indisputably, and move from there. When you find contradictions in observer's accounts, take the easy way out and say they were mixed up. In a state of shock. It’s simple if you look at it this way. Always take the simple way, it is almost always the right way.
[edit on 9/5/2006 by donwhite]
Originally posted by donwhite
The Commission was made up of its chairman, Chief Justice Earl Warren of California. He had been on the bench 10 years, and had handed down the key cases in modern Americana - Brown v. Topeka Board of Education. The Miranda case. The Wainwright case. And so many other cases that finally gave life to a moribund Supreme Court. And a good life it was.
Two senators, Richard Russell of Georgia, known as the Dean of the Senate. John Sherman Cooper, of Kentucky. I knew of him, as he was my senator. He won in Kentucy 2 times in part because he was an honest man. In politics in Kentucky, that is not a common commodity.
Two House members. Hale Boggs of Louisiana. A leading Democrat. I know you cannot say “honest” and name a Louisiana politician in the same sentence. That would be an oxymoron. But Congressman Boggs was never caught doing wrong. Louisianans liked him. He died in a plane crash in Alaska I think.
Gerald Ford, of Michigan. A man with a personality it was hard if not impossible to dislike. And never accused of wrong-doing. And, well enough regarded to become the only man to be president of the United States never to stand for election to the office. Ex-President Ford is alive and doing well for his age.
[edit on 9/2/2006 by donwhite]
Richard Russell: That danged Warren Commission business, it whupped me down so. We got through today. You know what I did? I... got on the plane and came home. I didn't even have a toothbrush. I didn't bring a shirt.... Didn't even have my pills-antihistamine pills to take care of my em-fy-see-ma.
Lyndon B. Johnson: Why did you get in such a rush?
Richard Russell: I'm just worn out, fighting over that damned report.
Lyndon B. Johnson: Well, you ought to have taken another hour and gone get your clothes.
Richard Russell: No, no. They're trying to prove that the same bullet that hit Kennedy first was the one that hit Connally, went through him and through his hand, his bone, and into his leg... I couldn't hear all the evidence and cross examine all of them. But I did read the record.... I was the only fellow there that ... suggested any change whatever in what the staff got up.' This staff business always scares me. I like to put my own views down. But we got you a pretty good report.
Lyndon B. Johnson: Well, what difference does it make which bullet got Connally?
Richard Russell: Well, it don't make much difference. But they said that... the commission believes that the same bullet that hit Kennedy hit Connally. Well, I don't believe it.
Lyndon B. Johnson: I don't either.
Richard Russell: And so I couldn't sign it. And I said that Governor Connally testified directly to the contrary and I'm not gonna approve of that. So I finally made them say there was a difference in the commission, in that part of them believed that that wasn't so. And of course if a fellow was accurate enough to hit Kennedy right in the neck on one shot and knock his head off in the next one - and he's leaning up against his wife's head - and not even wound her - why, he didn't miss completely with that third shot. But according to their theory, he not only missed the whole automobile, but he missed the street! Well, a man that's a good enough shot to put two bullets right into Kennedy, he didn't miss that whole automobile... But anyhow, that's just a little thing.
Lyndon B. Johnson: What's the net of the whole thing? What's it say? Oswald did it? And he did it for any reason?
Richard Russell: Just that he was a general misanthropic fellow, that he had never been satisfied anywhere he was on earth - in Russia or here. And that he had a desire to get his name in history.... I don't think you'll be displeased with the report. It's too long.... Four volumes.
Lyndon B. Johnson: Unanimous?
Richard Russell: Yes, sir. I tried my best to get in a dissent, but they'd come round and trade me out of it by giving me a little old threat.
Lyndon B. Johnson: You want me to tell you the truth? You know what happened? Bobby and them went up to see him today and he turned them down cold and said, "No." Two hours later, I called him and ordered him down here and he didn't want to come. I insisted he come. He came down here and told me no - twice. And I just pulled out what Hoover told me about a little incident in Mexico City and I said, "Now I don't want Mr. Khrushchev to be told tomorrow - and be testifying before a camera that he killed this fellow and that Castro killed him and all I want you to do is look at the facts and bring in any other facts you want in here and determine who killed the President. And I think you put on your uniform in World War I, fat as you are, and would do anything you could to save one American life. And I'm surprised that you, the Chief Justice of the United States, would turn me down." And he started crying and he said, "I won't turn you down. I'll just do whatever you say." But he turned the Attorney General down!
Lyndon B. Johnson: Dick, do you remember when you met me at the Carlton Hotel in 1952? When we had breakfast there one morning?
Richard Russell: Yes, I think I do.
Lyndon B. Johnson: All right. Do you think I'm kidding you?
Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by BartIV
I hate to be pedantic, but Lee Harvey Oswald was in the United States Marine Corps and he qualified with an M-1 rifle.