Mundane conspiracies in the Holy Bible

page: 1
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 01:50 PM
link   
I've always been told not to question the Bible, for it is the word of God (and NO ONE DARE question HIM), so, over the years, I've been writing a question list for the Almighty for when I die... if St Peter can question me, then by God I'm going to want some things answered.

Now, I know some of these have been posted and answered in other threads... but if it isn't the damndest thing trying to use the "search" function for wanted results... so here it goes.

1. Is adultry and incest sinful? Adam and Eve practiced it, as well as there children.

2. Since Noah's family was the sole survivers of the Great Deluge, from where did the Cainanites come from? Was Noah a descendant of Cain? Or, was there in fact, other biblical survivors?

3. Did Jesus actually get crucified? If so, he died to wash away the sins of mankind, right? So then, why does the Catholic church still demand that children be baptised? Are not children innocent (according to Jesus)? Since he died on the cross, why are children still born with the origional sin?

4. Why did Lucifer allow Jesus to be crucified? Yes, I worded that correctly. If Lucifer was given reign over the earth, and he knew that if Christ were to be crucified the sins would be washed away, why was it permitted? Why not have an... accident? *This ties in with question 3*

5. Why was the serpent still allowed to remain in Eden? Surely, it'd have caught God's fury as well.

6. It seems, in the New Testement, that the desciples knew who to read and write (small feat for poor fishermen)... so then, where are the Books of Judas?

7. Is Judas in Hell? Since Judas was only following God's plan, would he have gone there? Or, if it wasn't for his suicide, had he a spot in heaven?

8. What ever happened to Jesus' father, Joseph? Mary stuck around... where was Joseph? *I've heard that the Egyption Bible contains some answers, especially of Jesus' younger life... *

9. Mary Magdalynn... girlfriend?

10. If you take into account the Book of Enoch... and Jesus "preparing my Father's house", and all the aspects of physical contact with angels, are angels aliens?

11. Does Lazarus still roam the world? *There is a fictional series about the Roman who stabbed Christ on the cross, that he must forever roam the world until Christ's return... Cascus?... Anyway...*

There are alot more questions I have for that eventful day... and, like I said, I know some of these are past posts (hell, I've posted on some of those threads)... but if anyone else has biblical loopholes, please, let me know.




posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 01:57 PM
link   
you were told that we are all one but separated by time...

what would be the easiest way to have your soul other than to create judgements on other selves of you?...



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 06:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by soothsayer
I've always been told not to question the Bible, for it is the word of God (and NO ONE DARE question HIM), so, over the years, I've been writing a question list for the Almighty for when I die... if St Peter can question me, then by God I'm going to want some things answered.

Now, I know some of these have been posted and answered in other threads... but if it isn't the damndest thing trying to use the "search" function for wanted results... so here it goes.



Ok this should be fun answering

1. Well i don't think we could actually call it 'Incest' between Adam and Eve as they were supposedly the first two people but i get your gest.

2. I don't believe Adam was the only survivor to be honest, there were Nephilim at that time in history according to biblical accounts which (btw) were handed down generation to generation which is likely to have changed dozens of times throughout history. However there have been accounts in the bible after Noahs flood revealing larger than the norm people such as Goliath amongst other more recent finds.

3. To be honest i don't believe that he was necessarily crucified either. In accounts such as the Essenes which were removed from the Bible by people who worked within the Catholic Church he didnt die that way, the Koran also mentions this. it seems to me there was a power struggle against who's account was real and which belief would Rule as 'The One and Only True Religion. It's all about power and money though. As for Baptism, no it's only another 'scare' tactic into making people do as their told and give the church all their money.

4. Lucifer is another fun story. These people must have been master mind writers, they didn't have Computers Tv or Video Games to distract them. Good analogy though.

5. This is an Excellent Point!!! How Would God have allowed SIN to exist in his Perfect Garden! There goesall reasoning out the _ ha! i love this.

6. Another good point yes. How did they know and why did they wait 30-60 yrs after Christ Died to get this Information Jesus died so hard to give to the world, out?Also another side issue with Judas was (he died on the tree after betraying Jesus, and now he's in hell). Jesus said to all 12 apostles at the last supper "YOU 12 SHALL RULE WITH ME IN HEAVEN". Yet if you ask a Christian they'll tell you he didn't make it and someone took his place funny.

7. i think my last answer would apply to this here


8. Joseph seemed to have Vanished suddenly out of Jesus' life. Odd that, as a boy needs a Father Figure and during that time unless you were a dead beat dad, you stuck around and took care of your children.

9. Mary Magdellen was most likely his mate yes. ( i hear blasphemous cries and rocks from the religious community being thrown in my general direction now) snicker. Nevertheless as i mentioned above, many other accounts other than the bible mention this.

10. Yes there are most definately other life forms out there other than us, and much more intelligent i would say (the evolved species that is). We as a Human Race would have to be rather smug to believe that we were the only intelligence in a Universe so vast they've only just found the end/beginning of it consisting of billions and trillions of years from us. Imagine how much can evolve in a Trillion Years?!

11. I've never heard of this before but its an interesting fairy tale


I have about a million links on file, i'll have to find some and post them for you. I enjoyed responding to this one!



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 06:49 PM
link   
God's gift to mankind was FREE-WILL... we are the only creations that can think and act for ourselves...

BUT....

Didn't Lucifer act upon free-will? How else was he to have rebeled against God, and convince others to do so?



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 07:23 PM
link   
Lucifer/Satan/The Devil had free-will. God gave L/S/TD a lot of things. I'm not going to go into them because I have a chance at being incorrect, because over time we all forget things, and don't want to step on any toes. But, the only power L/S/TD doesn't really have, from my understaind, is the ability to create Souls/Spirits, which are immortal.



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 07:29 PM
link   

Originally posted by soothsayer
God's gift to mankind was FREE-WILL... we are the only creations that can think and act for ourselves...

BUT....

Didn't Lucifer act upon free-will? How else was he to have rebeled against God, and convince others to do so?


Well, I can't tell you what to believe as we all have that choice to make in this life however, It's possible that Lucifer (also known as the God of Mars) full of fury as the story goes is where part of this myth derives or it could be also that Enlil and Enki were having it out (sibling rivalry) and thus, we ended up with this fantastic tale!



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 08:00 PM
link   
Hi soothsayer,

I would like to respond to your questions. I am not the authoritative voice on this, but I do have years of study, so here goes.


Originally posted by soothsayer

1. Is adultry and incest sinful? Adam and Eve practiced it, as well as there children.

*********************

Yes. No one said Adam and Eve was without sin. A re-read will show they definitely were in.

***********************

2. Since Noah's family was the sole survivers of the Great Deluge, from where did the Cainanites come from? Was Noah a descendant of Cain? Or, was there in fact, other biblical survivors?

*************************

First of all, it is Canaanites, not Cainanites. No, Noah would was a descendant of Seth. (See Genesis chapter 5 for lineage).

*************************

3. Did Jesus actually get crucified? If so, he died to wash away the sins of mankind, right? So then, why does the Catholic church still demand that children be baptised? Are not children innocent (according to Jesus)? Since he died on the cross, why are children still born with the origional sin?

***********************************

Yes. Yes. IMHO, the Catholic church is wrong not only on this point, but on many. Yes. The children are born with free moral agency without the benefit that was afforded Adam and Eve, that is the result of the original sin. They are not born WITH the original sin, but with the consequence of the original sin. Unfortunately, it is in our nature to misuse free moral agency, especially when we live in the environment that our belief in God is purely faith based, instead of knowledge based. (i.e. choose wrong).

****************************

4. Why did Lucifer allow Jesus to be crucified? Yes, I worded that correctly. If Lucifer was given reign over the earth, and he knew that if Christ were to be crucified the sins would be washed away, why was it permitted? Why not have an... accident? *This ties in with question 3*

*************************

I believe you worded that correctly as well. You are misunderstanding the role and level of Lucifer. You are leaning, as evidenced by your words, toward dualism. There is no dualism. Dualism is the belief that Lucifer in some way equals God; His antithesis. This is not the case. Lucifer did not have the power to harm the Christ. Lucifer is not the opposite of God...he is the lesser.

**************************

5. Why was the serpent still allowed to remain in Eden? Surely, it'd have caught God's fury as well.

****************************

This question is unclear. Do you mean AFTER the fall of man? I would argue that that is not true. Do you mean BEFORE the fall of man? Because the reasoning behind the creation of man was to produce a being that had free moral agency; a being that could CHOOSE to love God. A being that could CHOOSE to commune with God. The serpent was the catalyst to the creation's choice to love and commune with God.

***********************

6. It seems, in the New Testement, that the desciples knew who to read and write (small feat for poor fishermen)... so then, where are the Books of Judas?

*********************

This one doesn't make sense at all. You will need to state this in a better form, and then I will try to respond.

***********************

7. Is Judas in Hell? Since Judas was only following God's plan, would he have gone there? Or, if it wasn't for his suicide, had he a spot in heaven?

************************

This question will be answered a hundred different ways if you asked a hundred different people. Here are my opinions:

First off, the Christ had not died given us the sacrificed required to obtain eternal salvation through the believing in the gift of his death and resurrection, so Judas joined those who had died before Christ who were ministered to by Christ himself and given the chance to accept his message and be released from darkness. Second, Judas was "given over" to the Deceiver for the purpose that had to be fulfilled. Once he was released again, he was distraught with remorse (i.e. repentance), and I believe this shows he was given over to the mercies of God. My humble opinion is that he is saved.

**********************

8. What ever happened to Jesus' father, Joseph? Mary stuck around... where was Joseph? *I've heard that the Egyption Bible contains some answers, especially of Jesus' younger life... *

***************************

Haven't got an answer for this...but then again it is not important to me. Maybe he died. He was much older than Mary. Maybe he was killed. Who knows. Maybe he just wasn't around a lot. It really doesn't matter.

*******************************

9. Mary Magdalynn... girlfriend?

*********************************

Again, an unanswerable question. Mikromarius will blather BS at you until you're blue in the face trying to convince you that they married, had children. yada yada yada. The long and the short of it is, it doesn't matter, does it? There is no scriptural evidence one way or the other. And Christ's mission, life and sacrifice does not diminish in the least if the answer yes. Again, I don't care.

*********************************

10. If you take into account the Book of Enoch... and Jesus "preparing my Father's house", and all the aspects of physical contact with angels, are angels aliens?

******************************

They may very well be.

**************************

11. Does Lazarus still roam the world? *There is a fictional series about the Roman who stabbed Christ on the cross, that he must forever roam the world until Christ's return... Cascus?... Anyway...*

There is no reason to believe that Lazarus still roams the world. I don't even feel like thinking about that one.

Cassius is not the same as Lazarus. Though I have read stories concerning the spear, I have not heard anything of this concerning Cassius...only a fictional account in a movie.

*************************

There are alot more questions I have for that eventful day... and, like I said, I know some of these are past posts (hell, I've posted on some of those threads)... but if anyone else has biblical loopholes, please, let me know.



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 08:05 PM
link   
a life without life is holy...

but thats not holistic...



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 08:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by bigsage
a life without life is holy...

but thats not holistic...


Your statements make absolutely no sense whatsoever to me.



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 08:13 PM
link   
want me to speak in laymans...

a life without the requirements to sustain life is holy...
a life filled with the unnecessary requirements is sin...

is this correct?

who other than you can tell another what is necessary?

i know i have wore many shoes and respect for one is still unfullfilled...

when is righteousness going to reign?

and dont give me some excuse as to why people dont respect each other, it only takes an effort, yet it is still non-existant...



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 08:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by bigsage
want me to speak in laymans...

****

No, I don't want you to speak in "laymans" as I apparently don't have that language down well...it seems to not make sense to me.

*****

a life without the requirements to sustain life is holy...
a life filled with the unnecessary requirements is sin...

is this correct?

*****

uuhhh...not in my books it isn't. Don't know where you're pulling this from, but it isn't in line with anything I have read, pondered, or come to believe.

******

who other than you can tell another what is necessary?

*****

I'm assuming this is a prime example of "laymans" language, because it doesn't make sense to me.

******************

i know i have wore many shoes and respect for one is still unfullfilled...

when is righteousness going to reign?

and dont give me some excuse as to why people dont respect each other, it only takes an effort, yet it is still non-existant...


******************

I take this a language far more into gibberish than "laymans".

Why don't you get off this thread until you can decide to speak to the issues and questions approached by the originating post. I understand that you obviously have some path you are going down, but to use some one else's thread to pursue that, when it is not in line with the intent of the thread, is a bit aggravating.



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 08:25 PM
link   
how selfishly childish...

well heres one...

the greatest conspiracy in the bible is the covering up of a civilization of beings not from earth...
the second greatest is the lie that jesus died for our sins when he died for us to recgonize sin...
the third greatest is the immoral injustice imposed by the roman empire(catholic church) by proxy of sin...



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:11 PM
link   


the greatest conspiracy in the bible is the covering up of a civilization of beings not from earth...
the second greatest is the lie that jesus died for our sins when he died for us to recgonize sin...
the third greatest is the immoral injustice imposed by the roman empire(catholic church) by proxy of sin...


1. You have watched one X-file too many.
2. You are wrong, the death of Jesus Christ was a Sin Atonement.
3. You have no idea what you are talking about.



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:21 PM
link   
I had mistyped a word in my 6th question...it's suppossed to read "knew how to read", not "who"... sorry for any misunderstandings.

Let me rephrase the 6th: It seems that the MAJORITY of the desciples have Books in the Bible, each accounting their own stories (or whatever) concerning Jesus. A few others, however, do not... and (I'll assume) most of us have heard about the Book og Thomas. Wouldn't it be safe to make the connection that the other "missing" desciples also have books accredited to them? I would love to read in the Book of Judas, how Jesus persuaded him towards betrayal... convincing him that it was nessessary.

In question 1, I wasn't saying Adam and Eve committed incest... just their children!

#2 Canaan, Cainan... at least you caught my meaning. So then how did tribe of the Canaanites arrive? The Flood was to wash away evil, but it allowed the children of Cain to exist?

#4... true, Lucifer couldn't harm Jesus... but Lucifer could persuade others to do it for him. Hell, Lucifer could have persuaded to have Jesus freed through third party means. The intent of this question is two-fold; on one hand, people could say Lucifer was acting under orders from God, or that there is a duelism (which I do favour... the whole yin-yan... *I'm Kabalist, but I do believe in Jesus*)

#5... I meant after the Fall. (But, since God knows all, He knew of the temptation, and He knew Eve would take the bait... if everything is already known... where is the free will?)

And, as a personal note, thanks... I am glad to see someone else believes Judas was saved. I never saw him as an "evil" person. He did what he was supposed to do, wether or not Jesus asked him, he still had a job; but, let us suppose for a minute that Jesus didn't ask... that means God knew (and Jesus knew, too)... SO, if it was already planned, is there free-will? Which leads me to the next post...



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:25 PM
link   
I see our lives as a river... it has direction, it has purpose... we try to alter the river by tossing in a few pebbles, and we may cause a ripple or two, but the river's path continues on, unchanged.

Toss in a giant rock (or three or a hundred), and yes, there will be a noticeable change... but the river continues on...

Our lives are a river. The pebbles our free-will. The rocks... events we consciously do... the current is God's plan.

Where is the free will when there is nothing that can be done to change it? Everything we do, everything we will be, is pre-ordained from before birth. Is there free will?



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:27 PM
link   


6. It seems, in the New Testement, that the desciples knew who to read and write (small feat for poor fishermen)... so then, where are the Books of Judas?


Well here is an answer to this question. Most of the Epistles were written by Paul who was a Pharisee, a trained Rabbi. Paul was a well educated man qualified to teach in the synagogoues. Paul was well versed in the Greek language. The Gospel of Luke and Acts was written by Luke, a physican. Here is another educated man (in Greek also). Matthew was a tax collector. When he was a tax collector, he was indeed a slime ball. But Matthew was an educated slime ball. The Romans did not use illiterate men to collect their money.
John and Peter were indeed fishermen, but Peter owned a boat that could carry 13 people - that is a major piece of property. Peter was a business man and could probably speak Greek. Aslo there were professionals (scribes) who could take dictation. And have not you ever heard of adult education?



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:33 PM
link   
I understand your point, but I think you missed mine.

Said it better than what I could have... dictation. Surely, people wanted to hear "the word", and passed on the tales by mouth until they were written down... so, then, where are the words of the other desciples?



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:39 PM
link   
Well, as you cited yourself, there ARE other disciples' writings (i.e. Thomas). Now, the question should become, why were they not canonized. I cannot answer this for you, and I can go further to say, I am not sure that the canonization process was completely "holy".

Judas would not have had a book. Again, I point out that Judas died prior to Christ's mission being completed. Re-read the last supper account and see that all present were still clueless as to Christ's mission...that includes Judas. So, he would have basically have had to wrote his account in between cluelessness and suicide...not much to write about actually.

I do not agree with you on your illustration of free moral agency, our lives, and God's plan. I do believe the river can be used at the metaphor for God's plan for MANKIND, but our own lives are of our choice...always. Remember, God having omiscience does not mandate that He manipulate. The river can be seen as God's knowledge of the future for mankind, His promises (the prophecies) as His committed points of intervention, but we are left to our accord.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and feelings, and your inquiries. We will probably not always agree, but it is good discuss these issues.



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:39 PM
link   
So - how many Gospels do you want - heh. Are not four enough? If you do not believe four, why would you believe ten? Perhaps there were other writings that were lost. Some of the original desciples probably had other duties (such as preaching) that did not require a written record and never got around to writing down a story. However back to my contention - how many do you need?



posted on Nov, 3 2003 @ 09:43 PM
link   


Well, as you cited yourself, there ARE other disciples' writings (i.e. Thomas). Now, the question should become, why were they not canonized. I cannot answer this for you, and I can go further to say, I am not sure that the canonization process was completely "holy".


The Gospel of Luke, Mark, Matthew, and John were specifically called out in eary Christian writings (Bishop Ireanus). There is historical evidence that these four documents were the only recognized Gospels prior to 200 A.D.





new topics
top topics
 
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join