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Sir! No Sir! A Film About The Gi Movement Against The War In Vietnam (DVD On sale Now)

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posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Anti-war or bad conduct and drug abuse—No Sir, Yes Sir!

I was stationed at four army bases in the states, Okinawa and a few other places overseas and never once seen or heard about anti war soldiers, disgruntled soldiers yes.

I do remember Jane Fonda and Donald Sutherland and a few other pro Communist organized a demonstration in Okinawa, telling us to put our guns away and to tell the brass were to go---most of us were disgusted with Jane and Donald, and told them where they could go.

There was a lot of fighting going on in Okinawa and Vietnam, but it was between whites and blacks---that’s what the media never talked about and my guess neither does this movie.

After Martin Luther King was shot in 1968 black soldiers began fragging white first and second lieutenants and some white sergeants as well.

There was plenty unfriendly fire between American troops in Vietnam that was swept under the rug and remains there to this day.

Okinawa was an island that harbored thousands of military personnel and equipment from all four branches of the military that directly supplied the war in Vietnam.

Okinawa in 1971-72 was a powder keg of racial tension that threatened to bring the four branches of the military to a stop---which would have been a disaster for Americans in Vietnam because Okinawa was the main lifeline for supplies and troops.

Hundreds if not thousands of military police where flown onto the island to keep that from happening.

Thousands ended in up in jail because of disorderly conduct for rioting and beating up other solders, and the rampant drug abuse, not because of their stance on the war----but they are not going to admit the drug use and bad conduct---anti-war is more glorified and respectable.

What happened in Okinawa and Vietnam stays in Okinawa and Vietnam---the major news networks were all there but the stories never told.

The lies continue in Sir, no Sir

My thread on this was locked, I will probably get canned next, the truth must be stopped---




posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by sleeper
My thread on this was locked, I will probably get canned next, the truth must be stopped---



Maybe if you had posted your thoughts in the existing thread, instead of starting a new one, it wouldn't have been closed.



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 07:11 PM
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I have to ask, have you seen the movie yet or even the trailer?
That's a pretty strange opinion to have of this movie mate.

While I fully support you sharing this opinion, I am really curious if you have looked at any bits of the film at all.

Your assessment is curious based on what I've seen in this documentary.


Springer...



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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I found it highly ironic that ScepticOverlord's post reining in what are supposedly errant and unwarranted replies also contained his siggy which contains the phrase "DENY AUTHORITY". I also find it ironic that those who profess a differing view of a film about Viet Nam than the film maker are deemed off-topic, not to mention the contention that because the "Thee Amigos" own the site that they are not bound by the t&c's.



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
I have to ask, have you seen the movie yet or even the trailer?
That's a pretty strange opinion to have of this movie mate.

While I fully support you sharing this opinion, I am really curious if you have looked at any bits of the film at all.

Your assessment is curious based on what I've seen in this documentary.


Springer...


Springer,

I have not seen the movie, trailer or any part of it; I base my assessment on what I have read on this and the other thread.

Nevertheless I only gave my opinion because I know the facts and the distortions that came after the war because I was there when some of the facts happened.

sleeper



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid


Maybe if you had posted your thoughts in the existing thread, instead of starting a new one, it wouldn't have been closed.



My thread was not about opinion or belief I was stationed in Okinawa for sixteen months, I was there in the thick of it, so I thought it should have its own thread---I have since changed my mind.

The military parceled out sections of the island that were for entertainment---night clubs, one area for white soldiers another for blacks and Hispanics.

I understand that this is an inflammatory subject because of its racial content and so I don't push it, also it brings back memories I don’t really want to dredge up. But the movie No Sir is only covering up the facts---I believe, and creating a whole new scenario strictly for political mileage for the up coming presidential elections.

In Okinawa, lots of solders were put in the brig because of violence against other solders and superiors, and the unbelievable amount of drug use that was going on in broad daylight in every barracks.

Eventually the military cracked down on the drug use and lack of discipline, discharging hundreds if not thousands with bad conduct discharges, and sending some to the military penitentiary at fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

When I left the army in 1973, I expected to read about the disciplinary meltdown and divided rank and file which was serious to the point that it may have affected the outcome of the Vietnam War, but found nothing in the papers or the evening news.



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by sleeper

Springer,

I have not seen the movie, trailer or any part of it; I base my assessment on what I have read on this and the other thread.

Nevertheless I only gave my opinion because I know the facts and the distortions that came after the war because I was there when some of the facts happened.

sleeper


Well, basing an opinion on the opinions and basically uninformed commentary of others is always risky.


However I will not begin to speak to your personal experiences because I;ve had enough of my own with the US Military to understand COMPLETELY what you are saying here.

I would hope that you have enough faith in this site's management to at least take a peak and look at it from the conspiracy/coverup angle (which is ALL we are interested in anyway) and see if this isn't something worthy of a conspiracy site to allow to be advertised.


In response to the "member" who thinks we aren't allowing discussion of this subject I would say...
DUDE have a look at the BB&Q forum!


S...



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 12:46 PM
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Sleeper....

You are RIGHT about the racial tension in the military. To say that it was an EXTREMELY THIN LINE that prevented an absolute RACE WAR in Vietnam, would not be an exaggeration. From the beginning of my three tours in Vietnam in 1968 through 1971..... as each tour progressed, the racial tension, at least in the Air Force, couldn't be cut with a jack hammer. The black soldiers were all wearing the black weaved bracelets and necklaces. I remember very well how cautious most military members were in the Air Force as they knew it was a situation where there was a butt load of gasoline..... and all that was needed was a match to ignite a war within a war. Fortunately, I never saw any violence..... but the possibility was ALWAYS THERE. I actually had numerous BLACK FRIENDS whom I trusted and who trusted me. I think it really had more to do with ones ATTITUDE.

Sir, No Sir..... is NOT about that part of it. It does cover the black soldier's position and his valid place in anti-war Vietnam history. There is one section of the movie where there is a meeting of existing Black Panther members which is interesting and addresses some obvious BLACK / WHITE turmoils.

Not to beat a DEAD HORSE..... Sir, No Sir is about the conspiracy of sweeping away a movement that literally changed the war and, without a doubt, SAVED thousands of additional CIVILIAN and MILITARY LIVES! And THAT is a FACT!

Just My Opinion......

Dave



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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I am not sure if I would call it "secret". All the information is out there on the net and in books and all you need to do is find it. I am 18 years old and I already knew about or suspected most of the things that movie is mentioning. One thing that I do hate is people comparing Iraq to Vietnam. At things point Iraq does not even come close to what Vietnam was.

[edit on 8/31/06 by jetsetter]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by Stormrider
I also find it ironic that those who profess a differing view of a film about Viet Nam than the film maker are deemed off-topic,


The issue, in relation to an advertising arrangement that extends beyond mere banners (heaven forbid we try to do something interesting), appears to be a gross misunderstanding of the movie, as well as the history of the Vietnam war.

It's important to put a simple idea in perspective...

Those distributing the film came to ATS because they believed many of our members may have an interest in their film. We agreed. We also worked out something that was a little more than basic ad banners. That's it. Simple. An attempt to do something different. (Well, not too different... I suppose that because of this forum you assume that the Three Amigos believe Cyprus is Atlantis or that because of this other forum you would assume we agree with everything the Rabbit says. If those are you're assumptions, you're very wrong. If they're not you're assumptions, then why the fuss over the movie ads?

We worked out a similar unique deal with a manufacturer of high-end bean bag chairs. Should aficionados of wood-framed furniture assume we're trying to push unconstructed freeform chairs because of our bias for them?


I'm not even so certain the critical nature of the "Sir. No Sir!" file is decidedly "liberal" to begin with. Some reflection of how we entered S.E. Asia, and the political battles of that era might help refocus things a bit.



not to mention the contention that because the "Thee Amigos" own the site that they are not bound by the t&c's.

When did that come up and how on earth does it apply here?



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 08:48 PM
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For those interested in learning more about some of the forgotten details of conspiracies, cover-ups, and related goings-on of the era, here's a tidbit:

The Winter Soldier (Wikipedia)


The "Winter Soldier Investigation" was a media event intended to publicize war crimes and atrocities by the United States Armed Forces and their allies in the Vietnam War, while showing their direct relationship to military leadership and the foreign and "anti-Communist" policies of the Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon Presidential administrations. The three-day gathering of 109 veterans and 16 civilians in Detroit, Michigan, from January 31-February 2, 1971, was organized by the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Honorably discharged soldiers, as well as retired civilian contractors and medical personnel, all gave testimony about war crimes they had committed or witnessed during the years of 1963-1970.

While the event was largely unmentioned by most mainstream media channels, a reasonably large number of journalists and film crews recorded the event, and a transcript[1] was later entered into the Congressional Record. Organizers described the event as "anti-war," not in the sense of opposing all wars (compare pacifism) or as a statement against the internal conflict between the 'North' and 'South' political entities, but as strictly in the sense of opposing America's involvement and escalation of the internal conflicts in Southeast Asia.




History, repeating.



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 10:34 PM
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Bump.

Great trailer. Kinda like a visual podcast.

And oh yeah, liked that line, "We truly believe that what stopped the war was when the soldiers stopped fighting."

Food for thought, huh?




posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
For those interested in learning more about some of the forgotten details of conspiracies, cover-ups, and related goings-on of the era, here's a tidbit:

The Winter Soldier (Wikipedia)


While the event was largely unmentioned by most mainstream media channels, a reasonably large number of journalists and film crews recorded the event, and a transcript[1] was later entered into the Congressional Record. Organizers described the event as "anti-war," not in the sense of opposing all wars (compare pacifism) or as a statement against the internal conflict between the 'North' and 'South' political entities, but as strictly in the sense of opposing America's involvement and escalation of the internal conflicts in Southeast Asia.


He's my Partner and he's my friend, BUT(!) he's also one of the most quoted, and certainly among the most INTELLIGENT Conspiracy "Experts" on the planet.


How can anyone continue to try to "politicize" this feature documentary after reading the above?!

Additionally, how can anyone, with any ethical compass at all, try to continue to state that we, the THREE Amigos, have forsaken the TAC of our own site?!


Seriously, it's time to own up to your OWN political "dogma issue" or pipe way down.


We can't hear the TRUTH for all the dogmatic rhetoric!



History repeating, INDEED.

Springer...

[edit on 8-31-2006 by Springer]



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by sleeper

My thread was not about opinion or belief I was stationed in Okinawa for sixteen months, I was there in the thick of it, so I thought it should have its own thread---I have since changed my mind.

The military parceled out sections of the island that were for entertainment---night clubs, one area for white soldiers another for blacks and Hispanics.

I understand that this is an inflammatory subject because of its racial content and so I don't push it, also it brings back memories I don’t really want to dredge up. But the movie No Sir is only covering up the facts---I believe, and creating a whole new scenario strictly for political mileage for the up coming presidential elections.

In Okinawa, lots of solders were put in the brig because of violence against other solders and superiors, and the unbelievable amount of drug use that was going on in broad daylight in every barracks.

Eventually the military cracked down on the drug use and lack of discipline, discharging hundreds if not thousands with bad conduct discharges, and sending some to the military penitentiary at fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

When I left the army in 1973, I expected to read about the disciplinary meltdown and divided rank and file which was serious to the point that it may have affected the outcome of the Vietnam War, but found nothing in the papers or the evening news.


Good to hear it confirmed from someone who was there - recently I was slagged and insulted by some yee-hah on here for daring to suggest the US Army was increasingly incapable towards the end of the Vietnam involvement. When I provided links to Dod reports he said they were biased too!!!

This film sounds like a documentary broadcast in the UK recently about the combat refusals, black panthers, underground newspapers, returnees speaking at demos etc - I expected a mention of radio first termer but they missed you off Dave
.
I imagine it was a US documentary originally - one of a series of about 6 x 1 hour.

I'll certainly look out for it in the 'usual places'



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 10:42 AM
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Watched it. Loved it.

Thank you ATS.

I think we need this kind of people now more than ever.



posted on Sep, 6 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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If you ever wanted an INSIDERS VIEW of David Zeiger... this is it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dave



posted on Sep, 11 2006 @ 12:50 AM
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For the brave men and women who died needlessly on September 11, 2001..... but most of all..... for the 3,251 Children who lost a parent on that black day in history.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Peace!

Dave



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