Few US Troops Tried for Killing Civilians.

Washington Post

The majority of U.S. service members charged in the unlawful deaths of Iraqi civilians have been acquitted, found guilty of relatively minor offenses or given administrative punishments without trials, according to a Washington Post review of concluded military cases. Charges against some of the troops were dropped completely.

Though experts estimate that thousands of Iraqi civilians have died at the hands of U.S. forces, only 39 service members were formally accused in connection with the deaths of 20 Iraqis from 2003 to early this year. Twenty-six of the 39 troops were initially charged with murder, negligent homicide or manslaughter; 12 of them ultimately served prison time for any offense.

Top military officers, military lawyers, experts and troops say the number of homicide cases prosecuted probably represents only a small portion of the incidents in which Iraqi citizens were killed under questionable circumstances. Officials also say privately that some cases have not been investigated thoroughly because there has been a tendency to consider Iraqi civilian deaths an unintended consequence of combat operations.

OH that is Cute - 39 US service members Formally Accused, while who-knows-how-many-thousand Iraqi Civilians were killed by the hands of US armed forces.

While tha Majority of the US service members were just found guilty of some Minor Offenses and received nice and kind Punishment - I ask, where is Justice?

Just to Remind everybody:

Official: Evidence points to unjustified killings by Marines
The Mustafa Mosque Massacre was No Accident or Error
US Troops accused of mosque massacre
US Raids Iraqi House, Killing Family of as many as 13 - Including Five Children
Behind the Steel Curtain: The Real Face of the Occupation
Haditha Massacre Confirmed
Haditha is the tip of the iceberg - Iraq atrocities continue

Only cases that are caught by the media or to much of an atrocity to hide are the ones exposed.

Many cases will go into oblivion with not knowledge of them at all.

I guess that is how the game of winning the harts and minds of the people in Iraq is played.

When it comes to civilian lives at the hands of the occupying forces they are not of any importance.

Pity

Yes, Marg, only the worse cases with the highest exposure are the ones that may get some punishment, at least for all to see.

It IS a pity. Its also a pity that so many criminals are running around lose running wars and ruling the world.

C'mon on over here, you'll see exactly how lowly regarded Iraqi's are.

The military is the master at covering up, sweeping under the rug (spent 22 yrs on active duty). There is no accountability, unless as was posted earlier, there is media exposure or the atrocity is too large to hide.

The civilian and military casualties that don't get reported are higher than you'd ever imagine. What's reported in the media is just the tip of the iceberg.

compared to what...
to the russian army in Chechnya,to the french in Africa...To the iraqi insurgency that is slaughtering its own people maybe...

[edit on 29-8-2006 by ZMax]

Sorry to say but the US military has always had this attitude to 'enemy/alien' civilians - from after WW2 via Vietnam and Italian Ski resorts right through to Iraq.

Whatever US troops do they're protected and insulated from the consequences of their actions via lightweight investigations, enforced legislation (EG the UK's visiting forces act) and the US's refusal to sign up to international criminal processes.

Few insurgents or terrorists have been charged for setting off car bombs in know places that civilans will be and kill them. Those are the real losers. I think it is a crime and they should be charged.

Originally posted by sbob
Few insurgents or terrorists have been charged for setting off car bombs in know places that civilians will be and kill them. Those are the real losers. I think it is a crime and they should be charged.

I agree but the problem is . . . you can not charge an enemy that you can not identified.

But when atrocities like the 5 marines that killed and rape a girl and their family that was covered up until somebody dared to talk.

If that person never exposed the issue nothing would have happened.

US personal and military are exempt from international courts.

Also many forget to often the tribal rivalry in that region of the world, they do not have the same society that we do in the US.

Some of the attacks against civilians are actually old tribal scores that during Saddam people were not able to settler.

Now they can and they are doing it and the violence involve is nothing new but for us in the western seems atrocious.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by marg6043]

I've said before that if a US serviceperson has comitted a crime then they should be punished.

I have to ask one thing. How many of these accusations are real and how many are media hype or the insurgents trying to manipulate the media. Several of the accusations that I have heard against US troops have turned out to be committed by Iraqi troops or people wearing military type uniforms.

I know that anything that I say here won't make a difference. Your minds are already made up. I'll just ask one small thing.

If the US supposedly is covering these crimes up, who should investigate them?

[edit on 29-8-2006 by JIMC5499]

Why do so many of you keep feeding this clear agenda driven tripe all the time?

How many cases are we talking about 10-20 perhaps thirty? That is nothing compared to what the UN has been accused of, so why let one persons US bashing agenda make it into a worse issue?

Just to make myself clear, I think it is bad, but not as bad as some want to make it out, so lets keep it in its true perspective.

The best way to avoid civ casulties is too not hide behind them and fire your weapon. If your fear rules you so much that you must hide behind 'em, than you don't need a weapon in the first place as you are a true coward.
Now, if US Forces are commiting war crimes, let's try 'em and put them to justice.
Any ideas on how to figure who is commiting a particular attrocity? I'm having a hard time trying to figure that out behind my Puter' in this comfy chair. How are you doing from yours on the matter?

Originally posted by shots
Why do so many of you keep feeding this clear agenda driven tripe all the time?

What agenda? we are just discussing the facts about servicemen getting out easily from crimes in Iraq that they had been previously charged.

I don't see an agenda, I thing is a very valid issue taking into consideration that the only case we get in the media is when the crimes are label atrocities.

We have to remember that our soldiers are in foreign land and anything that they do in that foreign land will reflect back to us as a nation.

How many cases are we talking about 10-20 perhaps thirty?

That is the problem how many other cases will never see the light of the day.

So why let one persons US bashing agenda make it into a worse issue?

Since the beginning of the US campaign in Iraq complains of misconduct has been reported by Iraqis but they are dismissed.

Just to make myself clear, I think it is bad, but not as bad as some want to make it out, so lets keep it in its true perspective.

I agree and that is why we are debating the issue.

Originally posted by shots
How many cases are we talking about 10-20 perhaps thirty?

From the Article:

Though experts estimate that thousands of Iraqi civilians have died at the hands of U.S. forces...

While being led to belive the Expert who have to Estimate, how many Iraqi civilians Did actually Die at the hands of US forces - since if I do recall correctly, Mister Gen. Tommy Franks said, and I quote:

"We don't do body counts!"

So - how many cases?

Well considering, that the Militar - Ofcourse - Covers Up the worst ones, nobody knows how many cases are we talking about, which REALLY happened; and since "We Don't Do Bodycounts", ah well...

Just shows the Ammount of Protection and Safety, which people of Iraq Enjoy today.

That is nothing compared to what the ]url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3145-2004Dec15.html]UN has been accused of[/url], so why let one persons US bashing agenda make it into a worse issue?

You are comparing UN Sexual Scandals in Congo, to;

1. Illegal Invasion of Iraq
2. Illegal Occupation of Iraq
3. Violation of Human Rights
4. Violation of Laws of War
5. Violation of Geneva Conventions

And if I do remember correcly, there is yet Another thread on ATS saying that exact thing - Bush and Saddam Should Both Stand Trial, Says Nuremberg Prosecutor; since in this Nurmberg Laws - which I know really do not mean a thing to Your Resident President-Kind-of-in-Charge - but the Principle is that;

"Nuremberg declared that aggressive war is the supreme international crime,"

A Supreme International Crime to which you MUST also trial President G.W.Bush for his Wonderful Performance in Liberating Iraq, as We are trialing Saddam today.

But in International Criminal Court in Hague.

And let's not forget, that Mister Resident President-Kind-of-in-Charge lately also answered to the Question, "What did Iraq have to do with the attack on the World Trade Center?", kindly at last to all of us:

"Nothing"

Cute ain't He?

First ther are Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Then none were Found.

Then there is the Terrible Connection to the Terrorist Al-CIA-duh cells and the 9-11.

But President just said it had nothing to do with that.

So what does He say about it anyway?

"The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East."

OH!

I GET IT!

That is Called the FREEDOM AGENDA!



[edit on 29/8/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah

From the Article:

Though experts estimate that thousands of Iraqi civilians have died at the hands of U.S. forces...

Nice try oh great freedom fighter. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a big differeance between accidental and intention killings, but you already knew that didn't you?

-------

Marg

I was refering to the authors known agenda which is known to many members of
ATS.

Originally posted by shots
Nice try oh great freedom fighter. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it says under my name:

FREEDOM LOVER

Can you spot the Difference?

There is a big differeance between accidental and intention killings, but you already knew that didn't you?

Oh yes ofcourse - I completly forgot about that;

Everytime US soldiers kill an Iraqi Civilian that is either;

a.) Mistake
b.) Error
c.) Intelligence Glitch
d.) Collateral Damage

Yes, it is all clear to me now, Sir!

Thank you for helping me Understand!

PS: Do you also have the Freedom Agenda, which Your president started in the Middle East?

"PS: Do you also have the Freedom Agenda, which Your president started in the Middle East?"

Oh sheesh, I thought you where an American peacefully stating your opinions about your President. This ain't even an issue for me anymore lol. Carry on, I'm out.

First. I'd like to know who the "EXPERTS" are that Souljah is referring to? How do you become an expert in this field?

Second. One of the headlines on CNN's website today is "U.S. Troops Charged in Iraqi Killing Face Hearings"

U.S. Troops Charged

Originally posted by Souljah
Everytime US soldiers kill an Iraqi Civilian that is either;

a.) Mistake
b.) Error
c.) Intelligence Glitch
d.) Collateral Damage

Speculating the numbers/events is still mere speculation…expert or not.

Imo, it is true the odds of categorical occurrences of the above are much higher for the US than that of insurgent/militant groups which coalition and Iraqi indigenous forces are currently fighting; not every US soldier that kills an Iraqi non-combatant does so intentionally…but how true are the afore mentioned categories for the enemies the coalition, Iraqi indigenous forces and civilians face everyday?

Curiously, what does one label the ‘Iraqi’ radical/insurgent/militia forces which do intentionally kill civilians?


mg

Nice post missed-gear...

Originally posted by missed_gear
Speculating the numbers/events is still mere speculation…expert or not.

Well and since the Noble US Forces do NOT DO Bodycounts, here is what people who DO bodycounts have to say about that:

Iraqi Bodycount Project

Who did the killing?

• US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.
• Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.
  
• Post-invasion criminal violence accounted for 36% of all deaths.
  
• Killings by anti-occupation forces, crime and unknown agents have shown a steady rise over the entire period.

What was the most lethal weaponry?

• Over half (53%) of all civilian deaths involved explosive devices.
  
• Air strikes caused most (64%) of the explosives deaths.
  
• Children were disproportionately affected by all explosive devices but most severely by air strikes and unexploded ordnance (including cluster bomblets).

Well, not to count all the people killed by US forces, which did not surface in any of the news reports. But there you have - the numbers speak for themselves; and remember, US don't do bodycounts!