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How many more years till FUSION replaces FISSION?

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posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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We are all familiar with Nuclear power. Some countries (like Japan) get up to 60% of their power from Nuclear power plants. The upsides we are well aware of.... none of pollution (smog, soot, acid rain, etc) associated with coal and oil. The downsides are the hazardous radioactive waste (which has yet to be solved).

So while we can cut down on greenhouse gas emission through the use of Nuclear (fission), we have to risk the possibility of a meltdown & hazardous wastes.

For years I have heard that eventually Fusion Power will replace the current Fission process and that there will be no more radioactive waste and mankinds problems will be solved forever yada yada...

So where is it? What's taking so long to develop this great power source?

Well I'm sure you are all aware that stars are in fact giant fusion reactors. The reason that it is so difficult to reproduce what stars do is they have an enormous amount of gravity working for them. You see the minimum temp at which a fusion reaction will occur is something like 100 million deg C. That's hot! At these temperatures all gases ionize and become unstable, forming a plasma. In a star, it's own gravity serves to contain the plasma..... but what could they use here on earth?

One possibility is using a magnetic field to contain the plasma. Well actually containment isn't the only problem. Getting the plasma hot enough is also a problem, and so far they haven't achieved any sustaining reactions longer than one second.

Will we see them eventually master the fusion process in our lifetime? What does everyone think?




posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 04:38 AM
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For 50 years the mantra has been " In 20 years given enough funding we will be living in a fusion utopia".

For the last 50 years I have not seen the kind of developments that would lead me to believe we are any closer than we were at the start.



posted on Oct, 8 2006 @ 10:23 AM
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It's an impossible question to answer. A huge breakthrough could happen tomorrow and new plants built within years, or it could just be a technical impossibility to create an economically productive nuclear fusion power plant.

I think it's somewhere in between, but wouldn't dare even make guess as how long.

[edit on 10/8/2006 by djohnsto77]



posted on Oct, 10 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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the last I heard about fusion was that they had managed a small fraction of a second of fusion, so not much really.

Sonoluminescence is supposedly able to give "cold" fusion, but it hasn't worked yet.



posted on Oct, 11 2006 @ 02:37 AM
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They are getting set for another $$$billions try in Europe soon.

Keep your fingers crossed.

www.fusion.org.uk...



posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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Yeah it seems like a difficult one to master.

Do you think that our gov't should seriously look to solving our longterm energy needs by exploring other avenues (like fussion or solar panels in space) or do you think they will use more nuclear power for in the next 100 years?

Do you think any politcal party (in the usa) will lead the charge?



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 01:47 AM
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The politicos in the US think they are doing good but when they look back it's never enough.

They have to use a little overkill to get this wagon going and I don't see that.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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Not within our grandchildren's lifetime. Or their grandchildren's lifetime. You have to be hiting the pipe to think anything else.



posted on Jan, 5 2007 @ 05:43 PM
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You have to be hiting the pipe to think anything else.


Uhh... you mean "have hit" as in past tense. I did go to college.




Not within our grandchildren's lifetime. Or their grandchildren's lifetime.


As far as grandchildren and their grandchildren...on what grounds do you make that assertion? From a technological standpoint or a political one? Conventional wisdom says that we should advance exponentially as far as technology is concerned. Look how far we have come in such a short time since the industrial revolution. So your saying the politicians will drag their feet? Can you be more specific?

oh..and...welcome to PTS



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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What we should be asking is why they are attempting something like high energy fusion when they could easily finish the little research required to use LENR for commercial energy production. Cold fusion has been scientific reality for two decades now and know about for decades before so one has to ask why they are still wasting energy on something as inefficient as high energy fusion.

Stellar



posted on Jan, 7 2007 @ 12:42 PM
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Actually, the military (Navy) has been working their asses off on both LENR and alternate forms of fusion.

One of which actually started showing promise, went TS, kept making tremendous progress, and then got its budget cut last year. The lab contents went into mothballs, but they still haven't released the NDAs so the original team can't work on it in private life.

They're making noises like they're going to declass it though, so if you've got a 100 million to spare the development team's pretty sure they can demo a technical break-even in less than two years.



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 07:35 AM
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Hi All,

Here are some links for the curious scientist out there who want a primer on the subject.

Phenomenon Archives: Heavy Watergate, The War Against Cold Fusion
video.google.com...

Is it possible that the Fusion process may, in our lifetime, become the predominate source of cheap energy? Well, I hope so and I think there are good reasons for it.

1. Increase demand of fossil fuel would naturally push the price of the liquid gold higher. Consequently, funding to develop other forms of energy may just provide the financial push for the cold fusion technology to be proven and developed on a commercial scale. Unless the coporation see an avenue of profit, they would hardly show any interest in the technology. The argument from the short film seems to be that this technology is a threat to the existing grid of players in the fossil fuel market, and thus, there have been efforts to suppress the rise of this alternative energy source as it's success would signal the end of their profiting era. Well, this is just a conjecture and i don't claim knowldege on this subject.

Nonetheless, the research on the latest developments on the technology look promising.
Here's a tibit : 'Review of progress made in field, with increasing validation and academic acceptance. Commercial applications expected from D2Fusion, and Blacklight Power, including a 1 kW generator pending'

Read more at freeenergynews.com...

Cheers.



posted on Jan, 14 2007 @ 08:21 AM
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I thought turky was actualy running on these generators? I heard that they had developed the technology and have it implemented already? I also heard that fusion is much simpler thain orriginaly thought and all it realy takes is melting Nickle Ferrite and containing it in a magnetic jar sending it into a conductive loop and pulling off the electrons with conventional electromagnets. The problem is keeping the nickle Ferrite heated to melting.

I have no Idea probably still need the helium surrounding the core to exchainge into hidrogen to keep the process going.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 02:55 PM
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I'm sorry to say it will never happen. We will probably blow are selves up way before that



posted on Feb, 6 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Royal76
I'm sorry to say it will never happen. We will probably blow are selves up way before that


Beside the fact that this is a single line response i must wonder why you think 'we' ( the people i suppose) will be very involved in that process and not mostly the victims of plans that are being hidden from us.

Stellar



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by StellarX
What we should be asking is why they are attempting something like high energy fusion when they could easily finish the little research required to use LENR for commercial energy production. Cold fusion has been scientific reality for two decades now and know about for decades before so one has to ask why they are still wasting energy on something as inefficient as high energy fusion.

Stellar





they are still wasting energy on something as inefficient as high energy fusion.


steellar the problem is about sustaining the reaction , and preventing meltdown of reactor ..... the reaction cannot be sustained as after some period of time the heat becomes too high too contained

most fusion energy tokomak research reactors are not able to bear temperatures of fusion for long periods ....

this problem could be solved by nanotechnology



posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by vK_man
steellar the problem is about sustaining the reaction , and preventing meltdown of reactor ..... the reaction cannot be sustained as after some period of time the heat becomes too high too contained


High spatial energy fusion is a stupid idea to further rob humanity of decentralized power 'generation'. LERN is what we should be focusing on and that was my point.


most fusion energy tokomak research reactors are not able to bear temperatures of fusion for long periods ....


Once again i do not care and that was pretty obvious...


this problem could be solved by nanotechnology


There is no 'problem' beside the whole process being stupid and massively wasteful.

Stellar



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by vK_man
steellar the problem is about sustaining the reaction , and preventing meltdown of reactor ..... the reaction cannot be sustained as after some period of time the heat becomes too high too contained


High spatial energy fusion is a stupid idea to further rob humanity of decentralized power 'generation'. LERN is what we should be focusing on and that was my point.


most fusion energy tokomak research reactors are not able to bear temperatures of fusion for long periods ....


Once again i do not care and that was pretty obvious...


this problem could be solved by nanotechnology



Stellar





There is no 'problem' beside the whole process being stupid and massively wasteful.


cannot agree on that , its our future for the interplanetary empire and colonization of stars ... also it is a prerequisite on the kardashev scale as per soviet analysis for a type 1 civilisation to transform into a type 2 civilisation..... also a necessity for understanding the processes in the stars ....
only with study of high energy fusion , can we learn to harness the enrgy and magnetic fields of the our home star(the sun) ....
only with study of high energy fusion , can we turn jupiter or other giant planets in the alpha centauri into stars when the sun starts to expand in the red giant phase.....
only with high energy physics can we learn the secrets of baryogenesis, hyperon strange matter and microsingularities and with nanotech bio-metal or almaziod



High spatial energy fusion is a stupid idea to further rob humanity of decentralized power 'generation'.

as per vico theory of nations , decentralization is the disease that harms and destroys civilisation in the name of freedom , example , Athens ,greece, Rome,the current dying western civilisation and decline of moral values in the christian world ....
see the decentralization and hedonistic freedom are two sides of same coin



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by vK_man
cannot agree on that ,


As if you would.



its our future for the interplanetary empire and colonization of stars


Since when do we require fusion engines to colonize our solar system? What nonsense....


... also it is a prerequisite on the kardashev scale as per soviet analysis for a type 1 civilisation to transform into a type 2 civilisation.....


Oh come on?


also a necessity for understanding the processes in the stars ....


'We' don't know how stars work?


only with study of high energy fusion , can we learn to harness the enrgy and magnetic fields of the our home star(the sun) ....


We understand how to use the energy magnets gate pretty damn well and every watt of electricity we have ever employed comes from magnets to start with. Fossil fuels have never contributed a single physical watt of energy to our energy distribution networks.


only with study of high energy fusion , can we turn jupiter or other giant planets in the alpha centauri into stars when the sun starts to expand in the red giant phase.....


That is most certainly not the case and i don't see where on Earth you get these ideas from .


only with high energy physics can we learn the secrets of baryogenesis, hyperon strange matter and microsingularities and with nanotech bio-metal or almaziod


High energy physics is a extreme waste of time and massively wasteful of resources that is sorely required elsewhere. We have vacuum energy extraction technology as well as all we need to know about 'cold fusion' ( LENR) to start employing it on a truly grand scale. We do NOT need centralized fusion energy 'generators' as centralization is just about the worse thing that can happen to our freedoms.


as per vico theory of nations , decentralization is the disease that harms and destroys civilisation in the name of freedom


Decentralization is unlikely to survive against centralization but obviously that is not the idea. If one nation centralizes effectively ( who cares about human freedoms anyways) it is a danger to freedom everywhere and the cause of centralization elsewhere.


, example , Athens ,greece, Rome,the current dying western civilisation


Actually it was centralization and empire building itself that destroyed those 'cultures' .


and decline of moral values in the christian world ....


Freedom is the problem suddenly?


see the decentralization and hedonistic freedom are two sides of same coin


Nothing like fascism when you would rather not do much thinking of your own.

Stellar



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 05:47 AM
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Since when do we require fusion engines to colonize our solar system? What nonsense....

fusion energy will be help in:
for electrokinetic solar ships ..
for restarting magnetic cores of planets like mars or moons like ganymede and terraforming them ... massive tokomak fusion reactors could be used ....
for powering space stations and interstellar exploration platforms ....




'We' don't know how stars work?


i meant the specific processes in the core of sun ,or to harness the energy of the sun and the helium -3 generated by sun's core and photosphere...

such processes (specific processes in the core of sun) be understood in great detail , it may be possible to achieve and sustain inertial confinement




That is most certainly not the case and i don't see where on Earth you get these ideas from






Canadian astronomers announced today the first evidence of a magnetic field on a planet outside of our solar system which is also the first observation of a planet heating its star. In our own solar system, if Jupiter was just ten times bigger, it would have sufficient critical mass to ignite as a second star. detection
www.uta.edu.../news/AstroBioMag.htm





Jupiter takes 12 years to go around the sun, so it spends an entire earth year in each astrological sign. It spins on its axis much quicker than the earth... a day on jupiter is only 10 hours. The planet is so massive that it could hold more than 300 earths. Many scientists think Jupiter is a dormant sun.
www.divanet.com...


--
People on this planet will be able to witness a similar process when Jupiter, the biggest planet of the Solar system, will become a star. In some parts of Jupiter the surface temperature reaches 1,000 degrees. Astrophysicists believe that Jupiter will become a star, move away from the Sun together with its 12 satellites and form a new planetary system

english.pravda.ru...
-----
if by natural processes,it is believed that jupiter could be turned into a star , so with artifical high energy magnetic fields a lot of possiblities may arise ONCE WE create technocracy...




We do NOT need centralized fusion energy 'generators' as centralization is just about the worse thing that can happen to our freedoms.

fusion reactors are the future , like it or not
freedoms will be a anicient vestige of democracies(shi-t-ocracies) once technocracy becomes possible




Freedom is the problem suddenly?


always the problem ... a historical pattern based cycle as a philosopher ..
bondage-faith-courage-liberty(freedom-hedonism/selfishness-cowardice and fianlly bondage again..... to end this cycle , technocracy is the solution and not democracy as democracy(sh-i-tocracy) helps freedoms and makes society weak ultimately causing disintegration...



Nothing like fascism when you would rather not do much thinking of your own.


what do yoy mean... a strange comment ..elaborate

[edit on 13-2-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by vK_man]

[edit on 13-2-2007 by vK_man]


[edit on 13-2-2007 by vK_man]




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