Mason Obession

Originally posted by interestedalways
It is interesting how many Mason's aren't interested in the esoteric yet some are obsessed with it.

Quite so. Very few of my local acquaintances are interested in anything like that.

Makes me chuckle when someone claims that we are based completely around such things.

Hobbs, what does the black and white checkered floor represent to you?

I believe what has been said all along is that the interesting stuff is for the few, not the many, has it not? Isn't that what you said in your last post? I understand that the many of you Masons don't like being equated with the few who do aspire to the building of Solomon's temple and the more metaphysical teachings that the organization offers, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Would you please share some insight on the meaning of Venus. I have no understanding of planatary representatives of higher meaning. How is it that cosmic beings as in planets and stars hold the key to unlocking truth as to the underlying knowledge of deities. Is it that the energy created by the course of planets are energy of the higher life forms active on this planet? Is it that the "Angels" come from certain planets?

I've read about Grandmother Spider who brought eggs from Venus to seed mankind here on earth. I really need help with this to further my spiritual journey, if you don't mind.

You probably know that 'Venus' rises in the Sky in the Morning then the Sun follows.

Jn
Actually I didn't know that.
That would put me in mind of say John the Baptist who "made the way for the one who was to come" by clearing the way.
or
A parent who came first and was followed by the Son, or child.
or
That's all I can come up with. Could you elaborate?

Originally posted by interestedalways
Hobbs, what does the black and white checkered floor represent to you?

There is an 'E' in my name. Is it too much to ask?

The archtypical masonic lodge room has a checkerboard floor, which replicates the ground floor of King Solomon's temple. The pattern represents the varied experience of life - for instance, the dichotomy of both good and evil coexisting in the world.

I believe what has been said all along is that the interesting stuff is for the few, not the many, has it not? Isn't that what you said in your last post?

Well, 'interesting' is in the eye of the beholder. But yes, some Masons are into spiritualism, some into history, some into mysticism, some the social aspects, some the charity. The fraternity contains the freedom for each member to attend for whatever aspects he likes.

That quality is what makes some of the conspiracy theories laughable, once you've seen things from the inside... trying to drum up enough interested folks for a common cause, and then picking the few out of THAT that are corruptable... that would be futile.

I understand that the many of you Masons don't like being equated with the few who do aspire to the building of Solomon's temple and the more metaphysical teachings that the organization offers, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

There I'm going to have to disagree... I don't want you to get the wrong idea that Masonry is internally factionalized.

I've never heard a brother object to anything that goes on in or around our lodge. I have seen a brother glaze over during a 'boring' lecture, but immediately perk right up and take interest during some other activity.

Good and Evil co-existing together. Something you adhere too, eh?
Why isn't that the Luciferian idea of an androgenous being incompassing both good and evil , male and female, all in one, then divided to create the dualistic world we live in? For someone trying to dispell myths you sure incorporate symbolism which keeps the fur flying.



I made a mistake on spelling your name. Sorry. Quite an offense in the big scheme of things I suppose.

Originally posted by interestedalways
Good and Evil co-existing together. Something you adhere too, eh?
Why isn't that the Luciferian idea of an androgenous being incompassing both good and evil , male and female, all in one, then divided to create the dualistic world we live in? For someone trying to dispell myths you sure incorporate symbolism which keeps the fur flying.

Good and evil always coexist together. That doesn't necessarily have to be a Luciferian idea, no more so than the yin and yang complex. Take Christianity, for example, which also seems to be the chosen religion of most Masons I have met. If you read Revelation, the end times are prophesized and we are told that good will triumph over evil, but after 1000 years, evil "must be released into the world again for a little while"

The concept seems simple enough, even here. Good has to have its counterpart, even if the sole purpose is to measure your faith against temptation and strife, such as the story of Job.

I've studied Freemasonry for some time, beginning mostly out of similar curiosities as those you share. My conclusions have led me to believe that there is nothing strange to be found, at least not in the "evil or catastrophic" sense. There is no vast conspiracy. In my studies, I have come to believe that the vile and preposterous nonsense being spewed about this organization all began with two things: The Taxil Hoax, and The Templar Tortures. If you read through these, I believe you will come to understand how rumors can fly, even over the centuries. It is important to note, however, that in both instances, Masons and Templars alike were aquitted of any crimes. Leo Taxil made a public press conference admitting he made everything up, and later the Roman Catholic Church made a formal public apology for what had been done to the Templars, who were "innocent of any crimes against God".

I say this quite often, but I feel it is necessary for the validity of my posts: I am not a mason. I say this mainly due to the fact that most accusers on ATS won't listen to members, making wild claims such as they are "ignorant to their own organization", or that they can't see because they are not "outside the influence". I am here to alter that skewed viewpoint.

And just to add to the discussion from a bit earlier, I have a regular haunt in the Ancient Civilizations forum, and yet I spend a good deal of time here defending Masons. Does this make me part of their agenda? Hardly. It just means that I recognize baseless, vicious attacks and stand up for those being subjugated to them. Also, I find it funny that there are those that would accuse the masons of constant presence to defend themselves, when those that they are arguing against are also regularly here. The reason why anti-masons can have interest in other forums and discussions is because they hit and run, leaving masons to defend their honor against wild claims that have nothing to back them up. Then another anti-mason picks up where they left off. If I continually insulted you and your family, seemingly without end, would you not take up the fight? I mean honestly? Masons remain here in numbers because it helps add validity to their points. Do you all realize how many non-ATS members see these threads thousands of times a day? I discovered ATS myself while researching information on Nebuchadnezzar. If there were no one here to defend masonry against those that would slander them, most might assume the accusations were correct, as there was no defense. Follow?

There is nothing wrong with having theories, but the best way to discover for sure is to question, not attack. Theories only become valid in a quest to proove them, but if you decide from the beginning that your theory is fact, then it is no longer a theory in the proper sense of the word. It has degenerated to rubbish. And with no effort being made to support that rubbish, it will be quickly shredded before the masses to avoid a similar attack later.
Only wish that actually worked.....

Originally posted by interestedalways
Jn
Actually I didn't know that.
That would put me in mind of say John the Baptist who "made the way for the one who was to come" by clearing the way.
or
A parent who came first and was followed by the Son, or child.
or
That's all I can come up with. Could you elaborate?

Lucifer was mentioned on the previous page of this thread as being a name for Venus, in the Bible i think it says Lucifer is the Morning Star, and also Lucifer is called something like the Light Bringer.

EdenKaia
I can see what you are saying but the part about Masons always being insulted and slandered is not what I perceive to be the case.
Sometimes the point being made is not to insult, but to explore. For instance I personally have nothing against Freemasonry. I don't know enough about it to have an opinion as to if it is a positive contribution to society (as with the Shriners) or if holds the power to change our lives to it's liking to enslave us.

I know that because of it's secrecy it will always be scrutinized by those of us who feel the squeeze but don't know where or who is doing the squeezing.

You say that the Masons are being insulted but I find them to be some of the most quick to personally insult anyone who questions the organization.

To each his own opinion. Great that you feel the calling to defend the "underdog" but in looking at the numbers and the influence I think your sympathy is misplaced. Is your husband a Mason?

Interestedalways:

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "squeeze"?

Are you talking about taxation, or perhaps restrictive federal laws?

I agree with you that Masons are not the underdog. I think the quality (or lack thereof) of our accusers' posts speaks to that point. Still, I understand why EdenKaia would have an interest in promoting truth rather than puerile science fiction.




[edit on 4-9-2006 by Roark]

Originally posted by interestedalways
I know that because of it's secrecy it will always be scrutinized by those of us who feel the squeeze but don't know where or who is doing the squeezing.

So why is it that you feel it must be Freemasons? Just because they are a fraternity? How about not being able to pay your water bill because the boy scouts have secret badge initiation ceremonies?

You say that the Masons are being insulted but I find them to be some of the most quick to personally insult anyone who questions the organization.

Masons are human like anyone. I have not experienced any masons here insulting anyone unless they just grew frustrated at being insulted themselves.

To each his own opinion. Great that you feel the calling to defend the "underdog" but in looking at the numbers and the influence I think your sympathy is misplaced. Is your husband a Mason?

The numbers where? On ATS? If that is what you mean, then I would be more than happy to provide you with a list of threads in which a choice few Freemasons are attacked daily by countless anti-masonic individuals. I would say my sympathy is precisely where it needs to be.

And just for the record: As far as I can tell, I've been male for my entire 22 year lifespan. Eden Kaia is my daughter's first and middle name, chosen to represent "A garden on earth".

Originally posted by interestedalways
Good and Evil co-existing together. Something you adhere too, eh?

No, just something that we recognize... we don't pretend that the world is all sunshine and rainbows.

Recognizing that there is both black and white is the first step to making a conscious decision to be a 'white piece' on the chessboard.

I made a mistake on spelling your name. Sorry. Quite an offense in the big scheme of things I suppose.

It's etiquette, friend.

Moderators: I just realized that I misspelled "obsessions" in my first post. Can you please fix that for me?

Originally posted by intrepid
Partially right Hobbes but there ARE some secrets, modes of recognition. Some people feel that it is there right to know ALL of the secrets, that nothing should be secret. This of course is wrong but it doesn't stop them from wanting to know and the paranoid take it as something nefarious.

and i'm sure those people have plenty of secrets they are keeping themselves

In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star.
In the book of Revelation 22:16 it says "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. "

So I guess I DO worship Lucifer after all.

Not sure how accurate this is. I found this on googlevideo.com It's a supposed ritual at a masonic lodge in Turkey. It's not in english just to let you know. It's not that old. I was just wondering if this was true?
video.google.com...

I don't think it's fair to assume that every mason is evil. The christian church has had its fair share of trouble. Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, and many others. I do believe that their are some rouge masons out thier. Who are using the faternity for their own means. But to say that every single mason is bad is not fair. Many of the masons on this board are very sincere, caring, and all around good individuals. Could some be getting in over thier heads? Yes. But like I said before accusing someone elses beliefs take a look at your own. The christain church has done many off the wall things themselves. Salem witch hunts ring a bell? Jerry Farewell has done much to destroy the image of the christian faith. Jesse Jackson and his little affair. Every mason isn't evil or uncaring. If you thinks so then that's just not fair and being too judgemental. Well anyway I will get off my soap box now. Any way let me know what you guys/gals think about the video.


Goat Sacrifice Ritual in a Turkish Masonic Temple | Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:43:37 -0300 | Source: video.google.com
A hidden camera video taken during a 33rd degree ritual at a masonic lodge, involving blood sacrifice on an altar. The video was aired on the Turkish Channel 7 in 1997. First time on the web. Translation into English included.

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Not sure how accurate this is. I found this on googlevideo.com It's a supposed ritual at a masonic lodge in Turkey. It's not in english just to let you know. It's not that old. I was just wondering if this was true?

At a guess, I would say that it shows an irregular masonic lodge in action. The clip in the middle with the guys with hoods is no masonry I know.

I'm afraid I didn't see any blood sacrifice or goats in the video. I'd be surprised, even in irregular freemasonry, if such a thing takes place, but Irregular is as Irregular does.

I watched myself and thought the same thing Trin. See how easily one can be fooled by the title of something? The guys in the hoods look like K.K.K. members. I could be wrong thought. The next time someone does a video like this make sure it's going to be clear. Or else everyone will be laughing at you. Just like many people on here will be laughing at the author of the video.