Mason Obession

Originally posted by seridium
It is because when people learn about them in their own little way they start to realize how decipetful the whole fraternal org is.

So tell me hobbs what level of masonry have you aquired?

I am a 3rd degree mason, the highest one can go. I have deliberately not joined either of those rites, however.

Ok, here's a challenge, then. Tell me what I am being misled on. Convince me, and I will demit tonight. I promise to be completely fair in listening to you. Enlighten me. Save me.

Back up your words with concrete, and I will happily join your side of the 'fight'. I would never knowingly belong to an evil and underhanded group.

Your the one worshipping lucifer, and if you have been through your 33 degree ceremony/ritual whatever you may call it you know which path you chose your the one that has to live with it.

Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light. On page 321, Pike boldly states, "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name given to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light...? Doubt it not!" Even though Pike admits the name Lucifer was given to the Spirit of Darkness, he still states it is Lucifer whom Freemasonry chooses as its spiritual light.

Pike denies God's Truth that His Word is eternal, as he states on page 37, "...all truths are Truths of Period not truths for eternity". To the Mason, there is no eternal truth; each generation of men must discover the truths that work for them. This is "Situational Ethics", against which the true Church is struggling in today's public schools and our Mass Media. Now you know where "Situational Ethics" originated, from Freemasonry, taught two hundred years ago.
Finally, we give the honour of the final truth about Freemasonry to Satan himself. Satanic leader, Anton LaVey, states quite clearly in his book, "The Satanic Rituals: Companion To The Satanic Bible", on page 21, "Satanic ritual is a blend of Gnostic, Cabalistic, Hermetic, and Masonic elements..."

Source

There is the constant lure of increased esoteric knowledge, power and influence for those who "climb the mountain" of masonic advancement. Of course this appeals to human nature. There is a strong desire in natural men for power, control, influence, recognition and secret knowledge. Freemasonry promises this to its loyal devotees.
Jesus said, "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?"

But this you see this is my main concern,weak people can never be themselfes for they were never shown the way, their way is fear and cowardless they have to be shown a way and when something like freemasonry is offered to them in a secret mystical way then they are easily influenced and by the time your into your 31st initiation you finally start to realize or mybe your morals start to kick in but one way or another you realize who the one you are praising in the end.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:6-7)

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12).

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time. (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

How can Christian Masons continue to participate in the Lodge when it teaches that all men are already children of God and acceptable to Him? How can they remain in the Lodge-when it teaches men that they do not need to place their faith in Jesus Christ?


[edit on 31-8-2006 by seridium]

[edit on 31-8-2006 by seridium]

Originally posted by seridium


It is because when people learn about them in their own little way they start to realize how decipetful the whole fraternal org is.

Actually, those who researched the subject honestly and unbiasedly always walk away with a positive view of the fraternity. We've seen this from academic historians to just curious folks. The only people who think the fraternity is deceiptful are those who have been themselves deceived by the anti-Masonic propaganda machine.

Information is information Hobbes, no matter it be google scroogle the library it is all knowledge which ever way you look at it.

But information is pretty worthless if it's false.

I have proved my point. look up

Your list was not accurate though.

So why do you masons wear the actuall skull and bones on your aprons In the museum in my city there is the actually pin im talking about and I have seen the backside of teh apron with the skull and bones hidden in the back? why this if no affiliation to the oto. And sorry to say also but the skull and bones is much more than just a rich kids club.

What does the O.T.O. have to do with it? They weren't even founded until the 20th century, and the Skull and Bones Society isn't much older. Masonry has used the skull and crossbones as symbols of mortality long before the O.T.O. and the Skull and Bones Society. It should also be pointed that Greek Letter Societies have also used that symbolism long before the O.T.O. was created.

what about how you masons argue there are only 3 actuall degrees? I have argued this point before and you masons are still in denial.
The 33 degree represented in picture form inyoru encyclopedia of freemasonry shows clearly all the degrees which are way more than 3 But still you all claim there are only 3 but clearly there are more than that, but you will redicule and demean anyone who can tell you differentthan that right?

I think you're twisting our words. We never said there "only" 3 degrees. We said there's no degree higher than the Third. The Scottish Rite offers an additional 30 degrees, and the York Rite offers an additional 10 degrees, and there hundreds of more side and honorary degrees, but none of them are "higher" than the Third Degree, which is the ancient degree of Master Mason.

Oh so just because im not a mason everything I know about them is wrong LOL I think not .

That's right...many non-Masons know much about Freemasonry. Two history professors who are not Masons (one being female) are featured on several TV programs about Masonry, and they are experts on the subject. Of course, they know about real Freemasonry, and admire it. They don't make up crazy conspiracy theories and ridiculous charges.

Originally posted by seridium

Your the one worshipping lucifer, and if you have been through your 33 degree ceremony/ritual whatever you may call it you know which path you chose your the one that has to live with it.

Now that's just lame. How is Hobbes "worshiping Lucifer"? And how does the 33°, which an honorary degree of Templary, have anything to do with it?

Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light.

Wrong. What Pike does is correctly note that the word "Lucifer" means "light bearer". He said nothing about a "spiritual" light, and didn't even say anything about Freemasonry. Pike also points out that this was a strange name for the church to give to its devil. Perhaps Lucifer is the secret god of the Christians, who knows?

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:6-7)

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12).

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time. (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

Ah, you're one of them thar Bible thumpers, I see. Let me guess: you voted for Bush, own 5 shotguns, drive a pickup, don't believe in evolution and global warming, but do believe that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs on their way to church just weeks after the universe was created 6,000 years ago.

Sweet.

Originally posted by seridium


It is because when people learn about them in their own little way they start to realize how decipetful the whole fraternal org is.

Actually, those who researched the subject honestly and unbiasedly always walk away with a positive view of the fraternity. We've seen this from academic historians to just curious folks. The only people who think the fraternity is deceiptful are those who have been themselves deceived by the anti-Masonic propaganda machine.

Information is information Hobbes, no matter it be google scroogle the library it is all knowledge which ever way you look at it.

But information is pretty worthless if it's false.

I have proved my point. look up

Your list was not accurate though.


actually my list was the part you refer to as unaccurate is the part where I asked a question you clearly missed go back and read that list again, and you will see the list then my question of unkown people I was wondering if and were masons?

So why do you masons wear the actuall skull and bones on your aprons In the museum in my city there is the actually pin im talking about and I have seen the backside of teh apron with the skull and bones hidden in the back? why this if no affiliation to the oto. And sorry to say also but the skull and bones is much more than just a rich kids club.

What does the O.T.O. have to do with it? They weren't even founded until the 20th century, and the Skull and Bones Society isn't much older. Masonry has used the skull and crossbones as symbols of mortality long before the O.T.O. and the Skull and Bones Society. It should also be pointed that Greek Letter Societies have also used that symbolism long before the O.T.O. was created.

what about how you masons argue there are only 3 actuall degrees? I have argued this point before and you masons are still in denial.
The 33 degree represented in picture form inyoru encyclopedia of freemasonry shows clearly all the degrees which are way more than 3 But still you all claim there are only 3 but clearly there are more than that, but you will redicule and demean anyone who can tell you differentthan that right?

I think you're twisting our words. We never said there "only" 3 degrees. We said there's no degree higher than the Third. The Scottish Rite offers an additional 30 degrees, and the York Rite offers an additional 10 degrees, and there hundreds of more side and honorary degrees, but none of them are "higher" than the Third Degree, which is the ancient degree of Master Mason.

Comments by Roark
Dude, you don't seem to understand.

Freemasonry has 3 degrees, the highest of which is Master Mason.

Freemasonry is comprised of the Craft/Blue Lodge degrees, which everyone goes through, plus a bunch of peripheral orders (Royal Arch etc, which you are obviously already aware of) which can be attained after being conferred with the degree of Master Mason.

Not everyone gets involved in the peripheral stuff. Globally, the majority of Freemasons don't join. So, for you to come along and say that Freemasonry has 33 degrees is entirely inaccurate. Scottish Rite doesn't have any authority over Craft Masonry, nor does it even comprise a majority membership amongst Freeemasons.

I would say you guys twist the words.
Your telling me you never said that he clearly states what you deny this is the rdicule and deciept I speak of that you Mason's are clearly guilty of here on ATS.

Oh so just because im not a mason everything I know about them is wrong LOL I think not .

That's right...many non-Masons know much about Freemasonry. Two history professors who are not Masons (one being female) are featured on several TV programs about Masonry, and they are experts on the subject. Of course, they know about real Freemasonry, and admire it. They don't make up crazy conspiracy theories and ridiculous charges.


well those people you talk of are old generation of mind slaves and in all reality they are brainwashed just like the rest of you that have fallen into the box never to look out.


[edit on 31-8-2006 by seridium]

Originally posted by seridium

Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light. On page 321, Pike boldly states, "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name given to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light...? Doubt it not!" Even though Pike admits the name Lucifer was given to the Spirit of Darkness, he still states it is Lucifer whom Freemasonry chooses as its spiritual light.

What the above actually says is that the word Lucifer was originally a Latin word meaning "light-bearer" from lux, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring," as well as its association with the planet Venus or Morning Star [wiki]. The Judeo-Christian establishment, in an attempt to discourage the aquisition of knowledge [light] by its adherents, associated ruling power and authority [wisdom] with spiritual darkness.


This ideological device was most likely developed in an attempt to protect the fragile religious sensibilities of early man from potential corruption by secular knowledge. Clearly, another aspect of the diversionary danger of casting pearls [knowledge] before swine [the intellectually immature].

The early Judeo-Christian religious establishment, compelled by Heavenly mandate, sought to teach the Israelites how to build The Temple of Man utilizing an ancient spiritual architecture which has a direct and obvious correspondence to the techniques employed in actual, physical, construction.

If we look to the mythos of Hiram Abiff and the three craftsman, we can see this idea clearly. The three craftsman sought to know the secrets of spiritual architecture; construction without going through the normal learning process. They sought to gain more knowledge [light] by a means in conflict with the gradated instruction of nature, by killing Hiram Abiff, a keeper of such knowledge. This very same symbolism can be seen in the myth of the Tower of Babel, as well as, the New Testament where Christ admonishes with the following:

John 10:1

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Basically, the early religious structure utilized a variety of means to keep the spiritual flock on the straight and narrow. They did not want them to become lost in the quagmire of information [light] until they first learned to build a solid spiritual edifice founded upon truth which would allow them to make objective decisions. Decisions unfettered or defiled by the debauchery of man's inherent primitive and animalistic predisposition.

Naturally, any such doctrine has the potential to be abused by men of higher mind but questionable morality. Similarly, time has a way of dulling and distancing the truth of the greatest of doctrines from their actualities.


I hope this was of some help.

Kindest regards.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by lucum per lucerna]

Originally posted by seridium


actually my list was the part you refer to as unaccurate is the part where I asked a question you clearly missed go back and read that list again, and you will see the list then my question of unkown people I was wondering if and were masons?

Ok, for the sake of fairness, those on your list who actually were/are Masons (please note I eliminated the obvious ad hominems against them individually in your original post; do they teach you to slander folks like that in your church? I mean is "the fattest president" really necesary?):


Henry Ford
Jesse Helms
J. Edgar Hoover
Harry Houdini
Joseph Smith
Brigham Young
Oscar Wilde
Mark Twain
John Glenn
Samuel Hahnemann
Charles Lindbergh
All seven of the Ringling Brothers.
Colonel Sanders
Dave Thomas
Telly Savalas
Peter Sellers
Strom Thurmond
William Walker
Sir Winston Churchill
Earl Warren
George Washington
John Hancock.
Benjamin Franklin
Paul Revere
Ethan Allen
Gerald Ford
William McKinley
James Garfield
Theodore Roosevelt
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S Truman
Warren G. Harding
William Howard Taft
Andrew Johnson
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
James Knox Polk
James Buchanan
Lyndon B. Johnson
Al Gore

On the above, both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were expelled by the Grand Lodge of Illinois soon after becoming Masons. The late Sen. Al Gore, Sr. was a Mason, but his son, former Vice President Al Gore, Jr. is not.

The following have never been Masons:

Ronald Reagan
Barry Goldwater
Roberto Calvi
Saddam Hussein
King Hussein
Tony Blair
Gerhard Schroeder
Benjamin Netanyahu
Yasser Arafat
Michail Gorbatjov
Helmut Kohl
Shimon Peres
Francois Mitterand
Yitzak Rabin
Robert McNamara
Walt Disney
Aleister Crowley

Of the above, Aleister Crowley was initiated into an irregular non-recognized English-speaking Lodge in Paris, France in 1904. However, he was never a member of legitimate Freemasonry. He was actually sort of anti-Masonic as can be seen in his O.T.O. papers.

Walt Disney was a member of the Demolay Society as a youth, but never became a Mason.

The following are sometimes said to have been Masons, but no actual evidence exists to confirm it:

Napoleon Bonaparte
Patrick Henry
Thomas Jefferson

I would say you guys twist the words.
Your telling me you never said that he clearly states what you deny this is the rdicule and deciept I speak of that you Mason's are clearly guilty of here on ATS.

I realize that this hard for some of you to understand, but there are only three degrees that are universally recognized as Freemasonry. That does not mean that others do not exist, but the others are not "higher" than the Third, and are not recognized everywhere.

For example, the 32° is recognized only in meetings of the Scottish Rite. It is not recognized in the Blue Lodge, the York Rite, the Shrine, etc.

well those people you talk of are old generation of mind slaves and in all reality they are brainwashed just like the rest of you that have fallen into the box never to look out.

Actually, they are the scholars who have spent years and years studying the subject from an unbiased standpoint. I don't think you're quite to their level yet.

Your the one worshipping lucifer, and if you have been through your 33 degree ceremony/ritual whatever you may call it you know which path you chose your the one that has to live with it.

Now that's just lame. How is Hobbes "worshiping Lucifer"? And how does the 33°, which an honorary degree of Templary, have anything to do with it?


I guess you no nothign of signifigance about the 33 degree ritual.

Pike identifies Lucifer as the source of Freemasonry's spiritual light.

Wrong. What Pike does is correctly note that the word "Lucifer" means "light bearer". He said nothing about a "spiritual" light, and didn't even say anything about Freemasonry. Pike also points out that this was a strange name for the church to give to its devil. Perhaps Lucifer is the secret god of the Christians, who knows?
Actually Pike meant "Light," in the sense that is used by Pike, means education.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:6-7)

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12).

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time. (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

Ah, you're one of them thar Bible thumpers, I see. Let me guess: you voted for Bush, own 5 shotguns, drive a pickup, don't believe in evolution and global warming, but do believe that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs on their way to church just weeks after the universe was created 6,000 years ago.

Sweet.



Im no Bible Thumper Im just givin refrence to crediable information that is written in the bible, that is all. You see God inspired His Word so that It would be an anchor to all true believers. God's Word, considered in its totality, is designed by God to be the beginning and the end of all things spiritual. This is the reason God repeatedly warned against adding anything to His Word or subtracting anything. This, in a nutshell, is what Satan does to deceive people and lead them away from God's Truth.
This word "faith", especially used in this context, always carries the connotation of religion. Thus, from the beginning, Masonry declares itself to be a religion. At this point, we must look at Albert Pike's "Morals And Dogma". On page 213, Pike states, "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction of religion." Masonry considers itself a religion, its many lies to the contrary notwithstanding. Pike was well known as a practitioner of Satanism. Portraits in his later years show him wearing a symbol of the Baphomet around his neck. Pike, however, did not believe the Baphomet was Satan. In Morals and Dogma he explains that this symbol was misunderstood by those who were not adepts"; that it was "invented ages before, to conceal what it was [too] dangerous to avow."

If you did read what I cut and posted mybe you could think outside yoru box man.
info
I like how you jump down the throat of a person with some thought behind his posts I guess im getting somewhere

Thirty third degree Mason Manley P. Hall amplifies the luciferian doctrine on page 48 of his book 'The Lost keys of Freemasonry' when he says

“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

Domenico Margiotta 33rd degree Mason has written

"Palladism is necessarily a luciferian rite. Its religion is Manichaean neo-gnostism, teaching that the divinity is dual and that lucifer is equal of Adonay, with lucifer the God of Light and Goodness struggling for humanity against Adonay the God of darkness and Evil.. Albert Pike had only specified and unveiled the dogmas of the high grades of all other masonries, for in no matter what rite, The Great architect of the Universe is not the God worshipped by Christians"

The Masonic Fairy Tale Known As The Leo Taxil Confession:

Freemasonry tries to debunk all links between itself and Luciferian doctrine using Leo Taxil's confession.

Without question it is a last century Masonic attempt to deal with the embarrassment that Masonry experienced when General Albert Pike's letter giving instructions to the 23 supreme councils of the world fell into public hands.

These are the details behind Albert Pike's letter to the hierarchy of world Freemasonry, and the letter itself..

Pike took fifty years to develop and gradually introduce his Luciferian Rite to a select few within the 33rd Degree Supreme Council at Charleston. He also converted the Masonic hierarchy in London, Berlin, and Rome. During the latter half of his work, however, French atheists began to attack spiritism and symbolism within French Lodges. By 1877 French Freemasonry overtly declared what it had covertly taught since 1840- that there is no god but humanity. English Freemasonry, which demands a belief in deity, immediately broke fellowship with the French Grand Orient. Pike, as sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, wanted to heal the rift by presenting his Luciferian Doctrine at the July 14, 1889, Supreme Council convention in Paris, France. Unable to travel due to poor health, he instead explicated the doctrine in a letter to be read on the convention floor. Afterward the letter was published by A. C. De La Rive in LaFemme et t'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle. The Freemason, a Masonic periodical in England, noted the reading of the letter in its January 19, 1935, issue. Count de Poncins quotes portions of the letter in Freemasonry and the Vatican. The most comprehensive quote, however, comes to us from Edith Miller in Occult Theocrasy. Following is Albert Pike's 1889 concept of how Lucifer should be presented to high degree Masons, while keeping the lower degree initiates and the general public ignorant:

source

[edit on 31-8-2006 by seridium]

I would say you guys twist the words.
Your telling me you never said that he clearly states what you deny this is the rdicule and deciept I speak of that you Mason's are clearly guilty of here on ATS.

I realize that this hard for some of you to understand, but there are only three degrees that are universally recognized as Freemasonry. That does not mean that others do not exist, but the others are not "higher" than the Third, and are not recognized everywhere.

For example, the 32° is recognized only in meetings of the Scottish Rite. It is not recognized in the Blue Lodge, the York Rite, the Shrine, etc.

I never stated that the 33 degree was the highest rite I was just stating there are 33 degrees quit trying to go beside my point look at the first question and quit changing it, your completely rediculous~!

Do you even know what you told me before did you see what other masons spewed from their keyboards?
are you that threatened by truth that you have to scorn my information ?

So why in your Encyclopedia of Freemasonry from 1915 you have this page called the structure of freemasonry which clearly depicts ALL the Degree's Rite's ?
If there are only 3 major ones you speak of and if that page is in fact a structure of freemasonry I would say that all 33 are a complete whole or your fraternal org.
wouldn't you?

[edit on 31-8-2006 by seridium]

[edit on 31-8-2006 by seridium]

Originally posted by seridium



I guess you no nothign of signifigance about the 33 degree ritual.

Actually, I'm familiar with it (and several different versions of it, at that). I would suggest, however, that you aren't very familiar with Masonic ritual, as is evident from your recent posts.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:6-7)

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12).

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time. (1 Timothy 2:5-6).

I'm not sure what all the Bible verses are for. I mean, do you want me to start quoting the Qu'ran and Bhagavad Gita to counter?

Im no Bible Thumper Im just givin refrence to crediable information that is written in the bible, that is all. You see God inspired His Word so that It would be an anchor to all true believers. God's Word, considered in its totality, is designed by God to be the beginning and the end of all things spiritual. This is the reason God repeatedly warned against adding anything to His Word or subtracting anything.

I'm not interested in a religious debate, and to be perfectly blunt, am not interested in your religious beliefs either. Since ATS's primary goal is denying ignorance, we should be concerned with the demonstrable facts during debate, not opinions or subjective beliefs.

Thus, from the beginning, Masonry declares itself to be a religion. At this point, we must look at Albert Pike's "Morals And Dogma". On page 213, Pike states, "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion; and its teachings are instruction of religion." Masonry considers itself a religion, its many lies to the contrary notwithstanding.

Again, that's a twisting, and is not what Pike meant. Here, you ignore the fact that Pike wrote:

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it. (Morals and Dogma, p. 161).

You can't any more straightforward than that. And this is why we as Masons say that you guys use deceitful tactics against us. You can quote Bible verses all day long, but that doesn't justify lying about people.

When Pike says that "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion", he goes on to clarify, stating that, as did the Apostle James did, true religion consists of the practice of charity and keeping oneself unspotted from the world. Yet you, and the other anti-Masons, leave all this out, and attempt to make Pike say something he never did.

Pike was well known as a practitioner of Satanism. Portraits in his later years show him wearing a symbol of the Baphomet around his neck. Pike, however, did not believe the Baphomet was Satan. In Morals and Dogma he explains that this symbol was misunderstood by those who were not adepts"; that it was "invented ages before, to conceal what it was [too] dangerous to avow.

Again, this is nothing but lies, and is bearing false witness. Maybe I could quote a Bible verse about that?

The charge that "Pike was a well known practioner of Satanism" is so utterly ridiculous that in reality it doesn't even deserve a respons. Pike was a Christian and a Communicant of the Episcopalian Church. He was never involved in satanism in any form.

Nor did Pike ever wear any "symbol of Baphomet". This garbage came from Jack T. Chick, who claimed that the Knight Templar Patriarchal Cross (which Pike did indeed wear) was supposed to be the "symbol for Baphomet". The obviously problem with that claim is that the Knight Templar Patriarchal Cross has never been a symbol for Baphomet, and Chick simply made it up.

It is also false that Pike wrote anything about the symbol being "concealed by Adpets" in Morals and Dogma.

Thirty third degree Mason Manley P. Hall amplifies the luciferian doctrine on page 48 of his book 'The Lost keys of Freemasonry' when he says

“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

Again, this is a twisting. To begin with, when Hall wrote the above, he was not a Mason at all. In fact, he did not become a Mason until 30 years after he published that book. So even though he did eventually become a Mason, and in fact did eventually become a 33° Scottish Rite Mason too, that particular book is the product of a 23 year old grad student in philosophy who was not a Mason.

Furthermore, Hall's meaning is obscured by anti-Masons who try to identify the symbolic Lucifer of Theosophy with the Christian devil. This was obviously not Hall's meaning, as we can see if we read the whole passage:

The day has come when Fellow Craftsmen must know and apply their knowledge. The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion, which places the energy of the universe at their disposal. Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly. When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy. He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare. Incessant vigilance over thought, action, and desire is indispensable to those who wish to make progress in the unfolding of their own being, and the Fellow Craft's degree is the degree of transmutation. The hand that slays must lift the fallen, while the lips given to cursing must be taught to pray. The heart that hates must learn the mystery of compassion, as the result of a deeper and more perfect understanding of man's relation to his brother. The firm, kind hand of spirit must curb the flaming powers of emotion with an iron grip. In the realization and application of these principles lies the key of the Fellow Craft. ("The Lost Keys of Freemasonry", p. 48, Manly Palmer Hall)

Domenico Margiotta 33rd degree Mason has written

"Palladism is necessarily a luciferian rite. Its religion is Manichaean neo-gnostism, teaching that the divinity is dual and that lucifer is equal of Adonay, with lucifer the God of Light and Goodness struggling for humanity against Adonay the God of darkness and Evil.. Albert Pike had only specified and unveiled the dogmas of the high grades of all other masonries, for in no matter what rite, The Great architect of the Universe is not the God worshipped by Christians"

This shows an incredible lack of research due to the fact that Domenico Margiotta was never a mason, much less a 33° Scottish Rite member. It is a continuation of the documented Taxil hoax, which leads us to:

The Masonic Fairy Tale Known As The Leo Taxil Confession:

Freemasonry tries to debunk all links between itself and Luciferian doctrine using Leo Taxil's confession....

Afterward the letter was published by A. C. De La Rive in LaFemme et t'Enfant dans la Franc-Maconnerie Universelle. The Freemason, a Masonic periodical in England, noted the reading of the letter in its January 19, 1935, issue. Count de Poncins quotes portions of the letter in Freemasonry and the Vatican. The most comprehensive quote, however, comes to us from Edith Miller in Occult Theocrasy.

Now then, let's look at a few facts:

1. De La Rive's book is the original written source.
2. De La Rive acknowledged that Taxil was his informant.
3. After Taxil's confession, De La Rive published a retraction of the entire story, and publicly apologized to Pike's daughter, Lilian Pike Roone, for slandering her late father.

It seems that De La Rive had much more integrity and honesty than most of his fellow anti-Masons, who continue to use the Taxil hoax even though the original sources publicly admitted the fraudulent nature of it.

I will, however, take my hat off to several modern anti-Masons who at least have the honesty to admit the farcical nature of the Freemasonry-Satanism hoax. One is Dr. Robert Morey, a true gentleman and scholar, who operates a Christian ministry that is partially anti-Masonic. In his book "The Truth About The Masons", he admits that the charge that Masons must pass through "a Luciferian initiation at some point during the high degrees" is absurd, and that the Pike letter has been proven a forgery. He examines other claims, dismisses them with the facts at hand, and shows that Freemasonry has no connection to any sort of satanism.

From US News and World Report's "World's Most Famous Hoaxes":

Devil In A Red Fez: The Lie About The Freemasons Lives On

[edit on 31-8-2006 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by seridium


I never stated that the 33 degree was the highest rite I was just stating there are 33 degrees quit trying to go beside my point look at the first question and quit changing it, your completely rediculous~!

OK, listen very carefully: there are NOT, NOT, NOT 33 degrees.

ONE Masonic Rite called the Scottish Rite has a system of 33 degrees. Other Masonic Rites have different numbers of degrees. If you want to say "The Scottish Rite of Masonry" has 33 degrees, then fine, you're right. But you seem to keep confusing the Scottish Rite with all of Masonry.

Do you even know what you told me before did you see what other masons spewed from their keyboards?
are you that threatened by truth that you have to scorn my information ?

What I think is that you need to go back to square one. You allowed yourself to be duped by the Taxil Hoax, which was proven a scam a hundred years before you were even born. You don't know the difference between the Scottish Rite and other branches of Freemasonry. Etc., etc. These are pretty basic, and if you want to argue about it, you at least need to know little something about it.

So why in your Encyclopedia of Freemasonry from 1915 you have this page called the structure of freemasonry which clearly depicts ALL the Degree's Rite's ?
If there are only 3 major ones you speak of and if that page is in fact a structure of freemasonry I would say that all 33 are a complete whole or your fraternal org.
wouldn't you?

No, as I just mentioned, the 33 are a complete whole for the Scottish Rite. The Rite of Memphis had 97 degrees. The York Rite has 13 degrees. The Swedish Rite has 10 degrees. The Rite of Mitzraim had 90 degrees. And so on, and so on.

so sscottish rite masons are not freemasons?

OK, listen very carefully: there are NOT, NOT, NOT 33 degrees.

ONE Masonic Rite called the Scottish Rite has a system of 33 degrees. Other Masonic Rites have different numbers of degrees. If you want to say "The Scottish Rite of Masonry" has 33 degrees, then fine, you're right. But you seem to keep confusing the Scottish Rite with all of Masonry.

Dont you join masonry to get accepted into the degrees of masonry being it scottish rite, shriner why is the picture I refrenced called the structure of freemasonry, if it is not masonic?

Symbolic Lodge.
1. Entered Apprentice
2. Fellow- Craft
3. MAster Mason ( to teach the imortality of the soul )

the next that follow are called blue or Symbolic degrees. They are not confered in england, Scotland, Ireland, or in the United States, because the supreme Concils of the Rite have refrained from exercising jurisdiction through respect to the older authority in thoses countries of the York and American Rite.

Lodge of Perfection.
4° through to 14°

Council Of Prince of Jerusalem.
15° - 16°

Chapter of Red Croix.
17° - 18°

Council Of Kadosh.
19° - 30°

Consistory of Sublime PRinces of the Royal Secret.
31° - 32°

Supreme Council.
33° Sovereign Grand Inspector-General.

Fall under the catagory of being a MASON DUH....
So therfore they would be part of the whole of masonry. and all its 100 or so degrees! being it the mephis scottish york they all started as masons and moved up the masonic latter of achievment have they not?
I know there are diff lodges different Concils, different degrees , different initiations etc....
But you see they all fall under the same catagory and that catagory is Masonic only masons are allowed into these degrees or else I could go and join the scottish rite without even becoming a Mason is this correct?

Why will you argue with me about not having 33 degrees if the masons have a rite called the scottish rite it is in fact part of being a mason and it has levels of initiation which are translated into degrees for its members. which without a doubt all fall under being a MASON.

That is why in this picture from a MASON ENCYCLOPEDIA Evidence
You can clearly see the structure of freemasonry can you not? Im sure you own the same book I have if you are in fact a real mason, so why all the denial, why all the anger towards the truth?
why have so many masons told me there are only 3 degrees when clearly this picture incase you didnt look yet proves you all wrong and to top it all off it is out of one of your encyclopedia's.



And I will agree that most information on The internet is False bullship about masons but one thing I enjoy is making you all do my homework for me and I thank you for that.
I have learned alot about your fraternal org from the minds of you on here that use all that energy debunking the haters, just so you know personally I have nothing against masons Or freemasonry as a whole fraternal org. I just simply have a bad attitude towards alot of # these days and ATS is a good way to vent that unwanted negative energy.

the 33rd degree is only applicable to scottish rite masons, other rites such as the york rite only offer ten but both lead to the same place, york rite masons are not any less knowledgable than scottish rite. and york rite masons do not have to join scottish rite to obtain the same "status" which is no higher in honour than the 3rd degree.

Originally posted by doggmann
the 33rd degree is only applicable to scottish rite masons, other rites such as the york rite only offer ten but both lead to the same place, york rite masons are not any less knowledgable than scottish rite. and york rite masons do not have to join scottish rite to obtain the same "status" which is no higher in honour than the 3rd degree.

I realize what the rites are all about but you see they are all part of being a mason , that is my only point that I am trying to make!

Originally posted by seridium
so sscottish rite masons are not freemasons?

Yes, we are Masons. One must first be a regular Master Mason in good standing in order to join the Scottish Rite.

OK, listen very carefully: there are NOT, NOT, NOT 33 degrees.

Dont you join masonry to get accepted into the degrees of masonry being it scottish rite, shriner why is the picture I refrenced called the structure of freemasonry, if it is not masonic?

OK, I'll try this again. Ancient Craft Masonry has only three degrees, which you listed:

Symbolic Lodge.
1. Entered Apprentice
2. Fellow- Craft
3. MAster Mason ( to teach the imortality of the soul )

Beginning in the early 1700's, Masons began inventing and writing new degrees, and eventually organized them into the various Rites that exist today. The Scottish Rite is one of the Rites. These degrees are not as old as those of Ancient Craft Masonry, and the Scottish Rite itself was founded in 1801. The Scottish Rite degrees are recognized only within actual Scottish Rite meetings, not in the fraternity as a whole.

So therfore they would be part of the whole of masonry. and all its 100 or so degrees! being it the mephis scottish york they all started as masons and moved up the masonic latter of achievment have they not?
I know there are diff lodges different Concils, different degrees , different initiations etc....
But you see they all fall under the same catagory and that catagory is Masonic only masons are allowed into these degrees or else I could go and join the scottish rite without even becoming a Mason is this correct?

Yes, you're generally correct on that point.

Why will you argue with me about not having 33 degrees if the masons have a rite called the scottish rite it is in fact part of being a mason and it has levels of initiation which are translated into degrees for its members. which without a doubt all fall under being a MASON.

Because it's important to understand that Masonry as a whole does not have 33 degrees. Only one of several branches of Masonry does (the Scottish Rite). To give an example, assume there's a guy who is a 33° Mason in the Scottish Rite. That's the highest degree in that Rite, but it doesn't mean anything in the York Rite. If he's not also a member of the york Rite, he will not be allowed to attend a meeting of a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons or a Commandery of Knights Templar, regardless of his status in the Scottish Rite, and vice versa.

You can clearly see the structure of freemasonry can you not? Im sure you own the same book I have if you are in fact a real mason, so why all the denial, why all the anger towards the truth?
why have so many masons told me there are only 3 degrees when clearly this picture incase you didnt look yet proves you all wrong and to top it all off it is out of one of your encyclopedia's.

There are only three degrees that are universally recognized as freemasonry. This has always been the case. The degrees of the various Rites are not recognized outside of the Rites.

Originally posted by interestedalways
This thread has degenerated into nothing more than an amatuer attempt to make non-masons appear simple minded, jealous, superstitious, and even malicious.

No, just a few of them.

If so then why do the replies from masons on this thread use insults and other means of communication to put down those of us who aren't in your brotherhood.

Show me one place where we say "If you're not a mason, you're crap", or even anything close.

My original point is that since the organization has always been self proclaimed to be shrouded in mystery naturally some of us would want to know what is so "special" that it is kept secret.

Umm, actually we've said just the opposite, many MANY times. Go read our millions of posts.

The reason we want to know what Mason's believe and practice is somewhat so that if it is a path to return to a state of harmony and balance then maybe I would be interested in studying such ideas.

BUT when we tell you what we believe and practice, you call us liars or deceived. Nice.

If the premises the order is based on then why isn't the knowledge available to everyone, not just those of you who have chosen to set yourself apart from the average Joe with info which might allow you to play God on earth.

But... but... you claim not to know what we're all about. If that's true, then the above statement is silly. So which is it?

You still never responded in anyway about the importance of measurement and and sacred geometry and why the Masons are so interested in such.

Actually, we have. Geometry was a closely guarded science, back in the day. It was a powerful enough secret - it's holders could create huge, mind-boggling buildings and edifaces. It was esoteric enough to be viewed as magic.

To the operative stonemasons, it was a huge point of enlightenment.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Can not masonic leadership be evil

No, really... it can't. The master of every lodge is elected by the brothers of that lodge, and goes through the 'officer line'. That's some seven years of service before he gets to the top... it's a fair bet that the brothers know him pretty well by that point. And then, he only gets to hold the office for a year, before he is replaced.

The current master of my lodge is a small printing company owner. The next in line is a computer geek. The next is an accountant. The next, a cook at a restaurant. Very sinister, all around.

An evil person could conceivably hide their evil ways, join a lodge, do good deeds, and work their way up through the line to become master. But is an evil person that does good things really evil?

Besides, they'd be disappointed... the brothers aren't obliged to listen to him. The worst he could do is stagnate the lodge. And that's not so much evil as typical.

and most masons average citizens just so eager to 'get ahead?'

Sure, that's true. What's wrong with wanting to 'get ahead'? I joined because I wanted to better myself and my community... I'd call that getting ahead.

Or is that not what you meant to say?

Originally posted by interestedalways
Although alot of history points to female deities as keepers of wisdom, isn't it true that in a masons heart of hearts the real goal is to BE GOD?

While I can't speak for every mason (obviously), I can say 'no' for me. And I can say pretty assuredly that all others would say no.

And why is Cain so much a part of the legends? Did Lucifer seed a bloodline and is he still trying to beat God by being God here on earth?

Who's legends?

By joining up you sold out, simple as that. No more exploration for you. Now you just follow protocal and get initiated. No need to think for yourself, eh?

Oh, man... that sounds like joining the corporate workforce.

But becoming a mason? No, I've found plenty of room to free-think and challenge the status quo, when necessary. Why would you think otherwise?

Originally posted by seridium
I guess you no nothign of signifigance about the 33 degree ritual.

And I suppose you do?

I for one received the 33rd Degree several years ago and I've seen in conferred NUMEROUS times since, most recently last year at the Supreme Council sessions in Washington D.C. What's more I've read and re-read the ritual. On top of all of which I was a Trinitarian Christian when I BECAME a Mason and I'm still one today.

What do YOU, who has NEVER received the 33rd Degree know about it?

Oh, let me guess, you READ some comments on a web-site, written by yet another NON-MASON who's NEVER received ANY Degree of Freemasonry, let alone the 33rd, or a Jack Chick tract so you're an EXPERT on the 33rd right?

For your information, the 33rd Degree (Inspector General is the title by the way) is Teutonic in nature and is based on the teachings of (are you ready for this? this is going to kill you. I hate to even tell you. Prepare yourself. Take a DEEP breath.)

Jesus of Nazareth. (ever heard of Him?) There is NOTHING "Luciferian" in it like the holier-than-thou's are so fond of proclaiming. By the way, look up the genesis of "Luciferian" and see how it's being mis-used by so many unknowing individuals.

To the remainder of your post, a masterpiece of nonsensical dribble, only two words come to mind; mule muffins.




[edit on 31-8-2006 by Appak]

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
You give out your WATS votes very easily I see.

No, you didn't get one of mine, did you?

99% is false? wow why didn't you call them outright liars and frauds then?

Because folks have been censured for that on ATS in the past.

Believe me, if a moderator was to say "No, really... directly calling someone a liar or fraud when you believe it to be so... that's ok" I'd be all over that. Please, mods? Please?

you are a low level mason in love with the organization

False and false.

I am a master mason. There are no higher levels.

I'm not in love with the organization. I see many flaws in it. I hope to help resolve said flaws. Said flaws have nothing to do with the claims made here on ATS.

and a known defender of them here

True.

(it is your job as a brother too right??),

False. In fact, most of my brethren would look down on my efforts, as they'd say I'm not being a peaceable citizen. But I'm a fighter, and always have been.

and your experience is limited.

I'm more experienced than you.

if high level masons defect and tell all... I'm guessing they are telling things YOU DO NOT PERSONALLY KNOW ABOUT... But WAIT... you in fact admit that here!! Viola!!

I'd like to respond to this, but your intent is unclear. What exactly am I admitting?

Are you saying that brothers tell me about things that I do not understand? Like what? The concordant rites?

Oh, wait... I think you are saying that unless you have taken part in something, you are not well-versed enough in it to speak authoritatively on it. I couldn't agree more, and all mason-bashers should take note of your wisdom on this.

What about the intentions of Freemasons? too hot for you to handle?

The design of the institution is to make it's members wiser, better and (consequently) happier. I can handle that.

My understanding is this:

You obviously understand nothing.

They do admit to this in the writings as YOU KNOW.

No, I don't. But feel free to try to prove it.

But even if it were true (again, pretending for sake of argument, which you've already shown you don't grasp), it's the opinion of an individual, and not the whole. Certainly not of the folks I've ever met.

You admit that masonry is a religion which I KNOW IT IS... A religion that is LUCIFERIAN in nature.

Let's see. Searching ATS for posts by me, with the word 'religion' in it, returned 15 hits. None of these contain me saying that masonry is a religion. Know why? Because it isn't.

Originally posted by seridium
what about how you masons argue there are only 3 actuall degrees?

Actually, as you can see here and above, we are in fine agreement. There are three degrees in masonry. There are more than that in the concordant rites, but those aren't masonry itself.

I have argued this point before and you masons are still in denial.

OR... maybe we know what we are talking about, and you don't.

Wow Seems I know something hey? its called information that is available to anyone with a internet connection.

No, 'fraid not. You have access to all the information, true and false, but not the wisdom or experience to tell the difference.