It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

DACT F22 vs Typhoon

page: 2
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Willard856
Your BVR missile is only going to be as good as the on-board radar that support it. Kinematics mean bugger all if the mid-course updates don't provide any info for where the seeker should be looking when it opens its eyes.


Yes, but why wouldn't it? Isn't that one of the advantages of the sensor fusion capability?




posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 08:35 PM
link   
It is, but there currently aren't any BVR missiles that I know of that can take advantage of this. AIM-120D I imagine will, especially with the two way datalink giving a measure of flexibility, but unless you operate a system that utilises a trusted common operating picture (COP), too many risks arise for fratricide (or collateral). The primary tracking system remains an onboard radar, with other sensors aiding in the ROE upgrade to employ the missile (point of origin, ELINT, COMINT, IR etc). Until a trusted, integrated COP can be fused and distributed to newer missiles, the "old" way of BVR employment will continue for a few years yet. This is, of course, my opinion alone.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 11:50 PM
link   
Ok, I know I stated earlier that these rumors are probably close to what would actually happen if the Tiffy and Raptor met but after reading the thread posted below (all 11 pages) I'm starting to have some doubts. Especially after Lt. Col. Michael "Dozer" Shower said this.


That depends - so far, in all of our training & exercises & test, a Raptor has never been rolled in on and become defensive. That has caused us to debate just how we train, for now we're doing a lot of high aspect BFM since every once in a while I guy might get a late system or visual pickup that turns into a neutral fight to the merge, but the VAST majority of the time we roll in at everyone's six unobserved (even when we're flying with our squawks on so they have an idea where to find us from GCI - most airspaces require us to do that - sometimes mine just doesn't work....). So we don't want to lose the art of how to fly defensive BFM but we don't want to spend too much of our valuable training time doing something that has a very slim chance of happening, so while it's a lot of fun, and gratifying to survive and/or win from a defensive standpoint - we're focusing less on defensive BFM these days and more on what we expect to see in combat.

LINK


Who is "Dozer"? Well, some of his credentials and history can be found here, but more information can be found in the thread I linked to.

BTW I recommend that everyone read the entire thread, I found it quite informative even though most of it is about Aviation Photograpy.

Note to the Admin. and Moderators.

I have no affiliation with this website whatsoever, nor do I have any personal interest in linking people to it. I only posted because it is the source for this information and the posts there cover topics we discuss here in the Aircraft Forum. Thanks.

[edit on 30-8-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 12:44 AM
link   
Westy,

Great link, thank-you for posting. I haven't seen that site before. Just wasted some work hours going through it! Have met Dozer on a couple of deployments, didn't realise he was demo'ing the 22.

Off-topic I know, but your UN quotes are gold!




posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 04:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by DickDasterdly
I wonder what the detection range of the APG-77 radar is for the Typhoon given that amongst other external ordinance on the EF2000, is at least one drop tank?

Note there has not been any bar room gossip about the F22A being detected by PIRATE. Surely if PIRATE is as good as it is cracked up to be, there would be plenty of rumours. Nothing seems to have made the jungle telegraph yet.


you know the f-22 can out manuvere the typhoon though not the berkut or the su-37 terminator (su-47 berkut)



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 04:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by phsyco
you know the f-22 can out manuvere the typhoon though not the berkut or the su-37 terminator (su-47 berkut)

Why couldn't it out-manuever the Berkut which is a fighter that hasn't flown in years and never really showed off anything. Same for the Su-37 which doesn't exist anymore. Any reasons?

Here's a piece of an Air and Space magazine article.

"He’s seen demos and videos of performances by the Russian MiG 29 and Sukhoi Su 37, and admits that their maneuverability is probably on a par with the F-22. "I can do everything they can do and vice versa," Shower says. We can all do some pretty neat stuff. But I love this part of it: That’s all they have. They don’t have the stealth , they don’t have the supercruise, they don’t have the integrated sensors, the avionics. We have an aircraft that does everything a fighter pilot has ever wanted to do. It has it all—you can tell by the price tag,"

[edit on 31-8-2006 by JFrazier]



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 05:00 PM
link   
In a related subject what would be the range of an F-22 stationed in Alaska without KC-10 helping?

Could it reach Japan or even North Korea?



posted on Aug, 31 2006 @ 05:51 PM
link   
Anchorage to northern Japan is around 2,500 miles, F-22 ferry range with fuel tanks should be more than that, probably in the 2,700nm region. For comparison Hickman to Tokyo is 3,100 miles.



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 09:15 PM
link   
Most military experts in the know have claimed the F-22 is a turkey and has even been beat in simulated dogfights with old failures like the hornet. I have no trouble believe the Typhoon and many other planes would easily beat it in a dogfight especially if the rumours about the engines falling out are true and the fact it uses computer systems that have been outdated since before the first pentium.

I want America to have a fighter we can be proud of not this waste of cash that constantly crashes and looks uglier than a flying liberal. It truely disturbs me we can pay so much for what is eaily the most ugly yet expensive plane ever made.

It's also been rumoured the the stealth only works if theres no moisture in the air which is pretty much never.



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 10:17 PM
link   
Shaman, weak argument, but the pilot is a huge source of success when regarding dog fights straight up. With the BVR ability of the F-22 it gains the advantage in intercepting aircraft. If say hypothetically 3 F-22 Raptors paired up against some Migs, approaching in each other, the F-22s have a good chance of taking out a majority of the MIGS before straight up combat.

I believe they should develop a more conventional light aircraft similiar to the F-16 Falcon in its fighter characteristics.

As for the F-22 it is conventional for what we need it for. It'll do its job. It's a major technological development and should be applauded, not shunned. If you honestly think with your infinite expanse of knowledge youc an come up with a more successful fighter for what the air force needs it for, then by all means, start throwing out proposals and cost estimates.



posted on Sep, 1 2006 @ 10:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Shamanator
Most military experts in the know have claimed the F-22 is a turkey ...


SOME have said so. You will find that are lot of their arguments are pretty weak or immaterial. What MOST "military exerts in the know" however say is that the USAF bought too few of them.


...and has even been beat in simulated dogfights with old failures like the hornet. I have no trouble believe the Typhoon and many other planes would easily beat it in a dogfight especially if the rumours about the engines falling out are true...


Dogfights have not been the principal type of engagement for years (and no don´t give me that Phantom over Vietnam story). And on every one of these "reported" dogfights there come dozens of "reported" dogfights where the F-22 won.

"Engines falling out"? Do you mean eingines failing or REALLY falling out? Never heard that.


and the fact it uses computer systems that have been outdated since before the first pentium.


It still has the most advanced computer system to be found on a fighter plane. Onboard computers don´t work like your home PC... you cant swap out a card and make it faster. There has to be one point in time when the Computer system has to be finalized, because only then you can start to implement the software. And apart from that, a statistically slow but dedicated-to-its task onoard computer will always be superior at this specific task than a one-size-fits-all home PC.

The Pzh2000 for example, the most advanced self-propelled howitzer on this world, has had the equivalent of an Intel 286 processor and a software based on Windows 3.11 running (this has been recently upgraded).


I want America to have a fighter we can be proud of not this waste of cash that constantly crashes


Two crashes so far, and one of those was the prototype, another one developmental. And anything short of 3 crashes can be considered a 100% success.


and looks uglier than a flying liberal.


And that is supposed to have an influence? Apart from that I personally think that certainly nothing can look worse than the F-35, but thats just me.


It's also been rumoured the the stealth only works if theres no moisture in the air which is pretty much never.


If that would be true, then all 4 of Americas LO airplanes should suffer from the same restrictions. It is true that bad weather may have an effect on "stealth", but not to that extent.


(I cant believe that I´m defending the F22 here, being a Typhoon guy myself
)

[edit on 1/9/2006 by Lonestar24]



posted on Sep, 2 2006 @ 12:55 AM
link   
And that is supposed to have an influenceApart from that I personally think that certainly nothing can look worse than the F-35, but thats just me.

Heh, just look at X-32 first.

Not to mention 5some 0ties designs.



posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 08:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shamanator
Most military experts in the know have claimed the F-22 is a turkey and has even been beat in simulated dogfights with old failures like the hornet. I have no trouble believe the Typhoon and many other planes would easily beat it in a dogfight especially if the rumours about the engines falling out are true and the fact it uses computer systems that have been outdated since before the first pentium.

I want America to have a fighter we can be proud of not this waste of cash that constantly crashes and looks uglier than a flying liberal. It truely disturbs me we can pay so much for what is eaily the most ugly yet expensive plane ever made.

It's also been rumoured the the stealth only works if theres no moisture in the air which is pretty much never.



I,ve been looking and I can't find more than 2 "military experts" that think its a turkey...
The rumors about the engine falling out I can only find ONE other reference to it, in another post you made on ATS. You are the only person on the internet that says the engine falls out of these aircraft..

I think its one of the "prettiest" planes we have flying right now, but thats my opinion, you think its ugly, so what? It works.

Again I can't find anything to substantiate the stealth moisture thing either. I found that ALL stelth works marginnally less if theres moisture in the air but the F-22 is no words than any other...

Do you work for a rival company?

This is the second thread that I've noticed you throwing out "facts" without really knowing what the hell you're talking about...

I just saw in another thread you told another ATS member to get drunk and start cutting himself.....



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 04:33 PM
link   
To add to this thread, I HIGHLY doubt the military is going to disclose all the revolutionary aspects about the F-22 to the public. It contains features on it that the B-2 also possesses, if you do not know what those are.. then I'm sorry


But a lot of you may underestimate the power of the F-22 and its capabilities.

Would you rather be right next to an enemy or throw a grenade, or be far back, miles and just a shell - it's that type of mentality, if they can't detect the F-22 BVR, then it has the ultimate capability to take down quite a few aircraft. The need for Dogfighting is almost nill with that, when it comes down to the dogfight, pilot experience is just a bonus +++++.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:07 PM
link   
I wounder what is the cost for each of the two fighters



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by warset
I wounder what is the cost for each of the two fighters

The Raptor is around $120 million and the Typhoon is around $80 million I believe. Both are calculated using fly-away costs.

[edit on 18-9-2006 by JFrazier]



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 01:14 PM
link   
The F-22 is at benefit only in pitch, but roll rates and turn rates of the Eurofighter are very impressive. the typhoon is only second in instantanous turn rate by the F-22 till they fit 3D thrust vectoring and trust me they will.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 01:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by ShadowKeeper
...till they fit 3D thrust vectoring and trust me they will.


This is a possibility talked about for future version but I have doubts the money and need will be there.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 01:34 PM
link   
Could someone please translate these acronyms for me?

BFM

GCI

BVR

WVR

ROE = Rules of Engagement?

NCW

PIRATE

COP

ELINT

COMINT



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 01:50 PM
link   
I think when it comes down to it.. is there a real purpose to prove the better fighter when comparing the two?

The F-22 was designed for superiority of BVR and stealth to help it make it the master, isn't the Typhoon more of a tactical fighter in the sense of dogfighting?



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join