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My Reworking of the U.S. Constitution.

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posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 09:58 AM
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remove the second part of the second ammendment, or reword it to be far less vague

make sure right to privacy is EXPLICITLY STATED

and absolute seperation of church and state EXPLICIT, not just freedom of religion i want freedom FROM religion

those are my suggestions




posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 02:11 PM
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Skimming over this thread, I think some of the points brought up as "weaknesses" of our Constitution are actually strengths.

Take "Ethics." Ethics is written into the Constitution but it leaves it up to Congress to determine what ethics are. You may see this as a weakness, but remember ethics change over time -- when the constitution was written it was "ethical" to own blacks as slaves.

Also an independent presidency seperate from the legislative elected to fixed terms. I think this is a strength over a parliamentary system since it puts in a lot more "checks and balances" into the government.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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1) I assume you know 4 American states have decided to take the label “commonwealths?”


Yes, I realize that, but I've chosen Commonwealth because not
only did I actually create a Commonwealth governing system
without realizing it, but also because Commonwealth means
common good, and it's a system I like.




Bicameral legislature. I much prefer Nebraska’s unicameral style. The Articles of Confederation had the unicameral legislature. For all intents and proposes, the UK’s Parliament is unicameral. The bicameral legislature was a pro-slavery compromise. The Articles had allotted from 3 to 7 members per state based on population, but each state had only one vote. If a states delegation was dead-locked, then it got no vote. The concurrence of 7 states was required for any action to be taken.


I prefer a bicameral system because it provides checks and
balances for the congressional branch itself.




3) To get America into the 21st century, we need to reduce the states to mere geographical conveniences or to zip code reference only. States were OK when you were doing 18th century thinking and it took, for example, 2 weeks to travel from Middlesboro or Paducah, to the state’s capital at Frankfort, Ky, but today states are a major hindrance. States create a burden we can barely afford.


I don't believe in a strong central government, so having states
is a good thing to me, especially if say the federal government
decided to do something, and the majority of people in one state
did'nt want it, the state government would'nt have to follow it.

Also, to be technical, when I started writing this, it was'nt inten-
ded to just replace the U.S. constitution, it was and is meant
as a constitution for a single global government.




4) Your Section 2 seems inconsistent. In subsection 1, you mention an election every fifth year, implying a 5 year term for House members, but in subsection 2, you restrict House members to 2 two year terms.


Ah, you caught a mistake I had'nt noticed, this constitution is still
in the editing stage, and certain sections have been changed, so
that's a mistake, I shall fix that mistake, thanks for pointing it out.




5) My same questions arise in the Senate which you limit to 3 three year terms, perhaps thinking of South Carolina’s Senator Thurmond who served 52 years or of West Virginia’s Senator Byrd, just elected to his 9th term, but yet to live it out.


Yes, I was thinking of senators like that when I created that,
I realize term limits are technically undemocratic, but complete
true democracy is actually a bad thing, so I've tried to create a
democratic system that's as democratic as possible without being
a negative system.




6) Subsection 6 sets out the Senate shall choose its presiding officer but you also seem to label him or her as the Vice Council. I apologize for not having read further, so the explanation may be in the next section.


It's like the president of the senate now, the vice-president is the
president of the senate, in my system the president of the senate
is the vice-counselor, which is roughly the equivalent of the
vice-president is chosen by the 5 executive counselors
democratically.




I’ll get back to that later. I think “Council” should be replaced with “Counsel” or “Consul” if your going Roman style. But again, for me, the better idea would be how to get rid of the Senate.


The vice-council and Executive councilors are the equivalent of
the president and vice-president, and being that a majority has
to agree to do something, I think council is an adequate word.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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remove the second part of the second ammendment, or reword it to be far less vague

make sure right to privacy is EXPLICITLY STATED


Under this constitution the individual has the right to privacy,
but the group does not.

It's written like that so secret societies and secret government
groups can't exist.




and absolute seperation of church and state EXPLICIT, not just freedom of religion i want freedom FROM religion .


That is a good idea, though I figured how it was written was
good enough, but I think adding it just to be safe is a good idea.



posted on Jun, 18 2007 @ 01:08 AM
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Ok, in case I have'nt said it, while this did more or less evolve from my reworking of the
U.S. Constitution, it has actually become the Constitution for a 'project' I am working on,
so yeah, don't come after me with torches or anything.


Anyways, since I've had the time to do some revisions of it, I thought I would post the
newly revised Article 8 of my Constitution, which deals with Civil Rights and Liberties.
Now, I know some people are'nt gonna like some of it, and well I'm not going to change
it just because people don't like all of it.

Anyways, here it is. I am interested in everyones (regardless of where you are from
or live) opinions on it though.



Article 8

The following list of Rights & Civil Liberties may not be denied.
All the rights laid down here excluding those pertaining to voting shall be guaranteed to all, regardless of citizenship.

1. All peoples have the right to own weapons if they are mentally and/or physically fit to do so. The Congress may make laws pertaining to licensing and regulation within reason.
The following list of Rights & Civil Liberties may not be denied.
All the rights laid down here excluding those pertaining to voting shall be guaranteed to all, regardless of citizenship.

2. All peoples have the right to universal free speech, upon which no body of power, institution, organization or governing body may deny. In cases that such speech is used to purposefully incite violence or to cause undue panic the individual may be tried before the court on civil disobedience charges.

3. The people have the right to freedom of the press, unless such should violate the privacy of an individual, unless in such case the violation of said privacy is for the good of the people.

4. All peoples, being at least the mental and/or physical equivalent of seventeen standard years of age, and holding at least basic decision making skills, shall have the right to vote, regardless of any factor including legal standing.

5. All peoples have the right to freedom of expression.

6. All persons have the right to their bodies, mind(s) and life.
-A. All persons, having the right to their bodies,mind(s) and life may choose to ingest any substance they may so wish to, regardless of the effects.
-B. All persons, having the right to their bodies, mind(s) and life, may choose to do damage to their bodies/mind(s), or end their life if they so choose to.
-C. All people have the right to themselves, regardless of anything and may thusly modify their body and/or mind(s) in any way they choose to including but not limited to; Scarification, Branding, Implanting, Tattooing, Piercing, Cosmetic surgery, Cellular/genetic manipulation, cybernetic enhancement and life extension.

7. All peoples have the right to produce any substance they may so choose to. However, in the case that the substance is deemed to be of danger to public health or safety, they must register their activities with the appropriate government organization.

8. The people have the right to assembly and protest.

9. The people, in the case that the governing body is no longer of and for the people and/or has become oppressive and/or corrupt, have the right to overthrow/dispose/replace the existing governing body and establish a new one that is of and for the people and is not oppressive or corrupt.

10. All individuals have the right to a speedy, fair and unbiased trial by jury as well as legal representation in the case that they request such.
-A. All individuals are to be innocent until proven guilty.
-B. No individual may be tried for the same crime more than once.
-C. No individual shall be forced to be a witness against them self.
-D. No individual shall be denied the pursuits of life, liberty or property without due process of law, excluding life.

11. A person, regardless of anything is not property and therefore can not be considered as such or held involuntarily and/or in non-consensual bondage.

12. All people have the right to be healthy should they so choose to be.

13. All individuals have the right to personal beliefs so long as said belief does not directly infringe upon another individual non-consensually. The government on all levels shall be completely separate from religion. The government shall not create a national and/or state religion. The United Commonwealth shall not create laws and/or legislation based on 'morality'.

14. The people have the right to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers and effects, and as such may not be subjected to unreasonable
searches and seizures. Any and all warrants issued must have a sufficient
amount of probable cause. Warrants must be direct and precise in what,
where, when and whom they are searching. A search is defined as the
physical searching of one or more other individual or in the case of an
automated system one carried out that retains records or sends the results
to another source.

15. No individual shall be punished in any way that is cruel and/or unusual.

16. All people have the right to life, upon which no one can deny, and said life can not be taken without the direct consent of the individual. The committing of a crime(s) shall not be interpreted to mean that the individual has consented to being killed.

17. Any private property taken for use in cases of court proceedings must be justly compensated for to the owner(s).

18. Any private property taken for use in cases of court proceedings must be justly compensated for to the owner(s).

[edit on 6/18/2007 by iori_komei]



posted on Jun, 18 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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Maybe I'm retarded, but I can't find it.



posted on Jun, 18 2007 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
Maybe I'm retarded, but I can't find it.


No, you're not, I took it down from the original link so that I could edit it, I forgot to put
it back though.


However, it is back now.
Constiution.

[edit on 6/18/2007 by iori_komei]



posted on Jun, 18 2007 @ 04:02 PM
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We'll do Article 1 first.


Section 8 already has some flaws.

First, you just took away the power of Congress to borrow money. That's not good, especially in times of war


Sub Section 9: The Congress shall have the power to provide and maintain a military; however appropriation of money to this use may not exceed three years.

Military is vague, you should define it. But the bigger issue is, did you just impose a limit on how long you can fund the nation's military for?


Sub Section 11: The Congress shall have the power to create a set of rules for the government and the regulation of the military to be voted on by the populace every period of twenty-five years.

What?


Sub Section 12: The Congress shall have the power to call forth the national guard(s) to aid in the upholding of the law and repel invasions.

I would define something to Posse Comitatus somewhere, to prevent federal tyranny.


Sub Section 13: The Congress shall have the power of eminent domain on land owned by the various state governments, or on surplus/not used land of private citizens in cases that it will be used for the common good/interest of the public.

Woah, woah, woah! You just legalized seizure of private land! You can't just say "surplus/not used land" because I could define that as anything! Not good, not at all. Plus, the federal government could just take all uninhabited state land and make it federal for the hell of it. Not good.

I don't see why Section 9 would be included in Article 1 (Congress). I would make a tenth article and explicitly outline things like that.

Article 1 Section 10:


Sub Section 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

By including "keep troops", you've just abolished the National Guard. Not good, remove that.



posted on Jun, 18 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
First, you just took away the power of Congress to borrow money. That's not good, especially in times of war.


How so?

I'm just curious, as some things may have accidentally been left out when I was transferring it.




Sub Section 9: The Congress shall have the power to provide and maintain a military; however appropriation of money to this use may not exceed three years.

But the bigger issue is, did you just impose a limit on how long you can fund the nation's military for?


No, I did not limit the funding, rather it's meant so that every three years it has to be
revised or re-voted on.

Though I see how it can be interpreted differently.

I based it off the American Constitution, and actually added a year.



Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;






Sub Section 11: The Congress shall have the power to create a set of rules for the government and the regulation of the military to be voted on by the populace every period of twenty-five years.

What?


Military laws and guidelines basically, instead of being voted on by the Congress every 50 years,
it's voted on every 25 years by the public.





Sub Section 12: The Congress shall have the power to call forth the national guard(s) to aid in the upholding of the law and repel invasions.

I would define something to Posse Comitatus somewhere, to prevent federal tyranny.


I will take that under advisement, though if you have a specific way to word it,
I'm open to hearing it.





Sub Section 13: The Congress shall have the power of eminent domain on land owned by the various state governments, or on surplus/not used land of private citizens in cases that it will be used for the common good/interest of the public.


Woah, woah, woah! You just legalized seizure of private land! You can't just say "surplus/not used land" because I could define that as anything! Not good, not at all. Plus, the federal government could just take all uninhabited state land and make it federal for the hell of it. Not good.


While it does need a bit more refinement, I actually worded it that way to prevent it
from being interpreted in such a way that the government can just decide to take any land they want.




I don't see why Section 9 would be included in Article 1 (Congress). I would make a tenth article and explicitly outline things like that.


That just happens to be where it was in the American Constitution, so I left it where it was,
but I suppose that c/would be a good idea.





Sub Section 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.


By including "keep troops", you've just abolished the National Guard. Not good, remove that.


Well, the states have National Guards now, and that's pretty much what the American Constitution
says as it is, well I actually left out the part about not making deals with other states and
countries in regards to military action, but that's because I figure that it's already covered
by another section.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 12:43 PM
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I've recently revised it, and have uploaded it as a PDF file for easier access.

To download and read the most recent version of the Constitution, click on the following link.
The Constitution



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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I was floating ideas in my mind about some things with the Constitution myself



Term limits 12 years maximum service in the government

President and Vice President maximum 3 terms at 4 years each term minumum age is 40 elected as is now except runner up becomes Vice President no more President Vice President tickets, as was intended originally

Keep the electoral colloge but do away with the winner take all in a state

Senators maximum 2 terms at 6 years each term minumum age is 30 elected by the state legislatures as was intended originally, 2 per state and 1 per territory and Distric of Columbia

Representatives maximum 6 terms 2 years each term minumum age is 20 One representative per 25,000 of population

Congress would get bigger but would be more reprsentative and more accountable.

Supreme Court 1 12 year term advice and consent of the senate still applies minumum age is 50

Ban Executive Orders and Signing Statements

Federal Departments of State Treasury and War as was originally written all other departments are to be run by the individual states

States maintain thier individual Armies the Federal Government maintains the Navy and Marines

Treasury becomes responsible for the National Bank, Federal Reserve is dissolved

Amendment 1

Add the government shall be free of all references to religion in conduct of its duties.

Amendment 2

The rights of the people to Firearms for self defense shall not be infringed, ( States already have control of thier own armies as it was in the beginning )

Self Defense Firearms defined ( Rifles Automatic, Rifles Semi Automatic, Rifles Bolt action, Shotguns Automatic, Shotguns Semi Automatic, Shotguns Pump Action, Shotguns Single Loading, Revolvers,Pistols Semi Automatic, Pistols Single Shot).

Crimes commited with Firearms carry a mandatory 25 year prison term, in addition to the penalty for other crimes in question.

Citizens may carry Concealed Firearms for self defense. Private and Public Places may restrict the carry but must provide secure storage free of charge for the citizen who surrenders his firearm.

( Example no carry in the Courthouse but the courthouse must provide a secure storage facilty)




Amendment 3

Dont Touch

Amendment 4

Add privacy rights here

Amendment 5

Dont touch

Amendment 6

Dont touch

Amendment 7

Dont touch

Amendment 8

Dont Touch

Amendment 9

Dont Touch

Amendment 10

Dont touch

Amendment 11

Dont touch

Amendmet 12

Dissolved by returning to original presidential election process

Amendment 13

Dont touch

Amendment 14

Change so that only people born of citizens can be considered citizens at birth.

Amendment 15

Changed to Include Race Religion Sex Handicap Sexual Orientation etc

Amendment 16

Dissolve return to what the founders intended or go to a flat tax fair tax system

Amendment 17

Dissolve return to what the founders intended

Amendment 18

Already dissoved

Amendment 19

Covered in 15

Amendment 20

Change date to July 4th for all offices
Make Election Day a National Holiday

Amendment 21

Unnecessary

Amendment 22

Covered in Term Limits above

Amendment 23

Covered Above

Amendment 24

Ballots must be printed in English and marked by hand, Ballots must be counted by hand and not machine proof of citizenship must be provided before voting.

Amendment 25

Change to allow voters to choose new Vice President in special election should the President become incapacitated and unable to fullfill his/her duties and the Vice President assumes his/her duties

Amendment 26

Voting age, Draft age, Driving age, Military Service age and Firearms ownership age raised to 20

Amendment 27

Set Government compensation levels at

President 1,000,000 USD per year
Vice President 750,000 USD per year
Supreme Court 600,000 USD per year
Senators 500,000 USD per year
Representative 250,000 USD per year
cabinet members 200,000 USD per year
All other members of Government 150,000 USD per year maximum

Government compensation can only be adjusted by inflation no pay raises

Other

Violent felons loose the Right to Vote, Right to hold government Office, and the Right to Firearms.
Non Violent Felons loose thier Right to Vote and hold government Office.

All prison time should be solitary confinement so as to remove the violence in prison such as gangs and rapes and murders.

Abolishment of the death penalty,

I am conflicted on abortion it has become too convienent

But my thoughts are as follows, no restrictions in the first trimester, after the first trimester the Physician must show that birth will result in a child that is deformed or otherwise hindered so that the childs quality of life would be significantly dimished, or giving birth would lead to the death or serious incapacitation of the
mother.

All persons that are in the US legally wether citizen or not, shall be protected under the bill of rights with the exception of carrying firearms, all persons who have illegally entered the US shall be deported to thier home countries upon discovery.

Citizens would be issued an ID card upon thier 20th birthday allowing them to Vote Drive Own and Carry firearms the card would also register them for the draft Card is be issued buy the State of Birth, hence you would become a citizen of your state and other states would have to honor your citizen ship with full faith and credit.
You can exchange the card if you move to another state and reside there.
No fee can be charged for the card, it is a state id that must be honored by other states.

Recall elections can be held if 33 percent of a districts eligable voters sign a petition.

25,000 voters in a district if 7575 voters sign a petition a recall election is held.


[edit on 7/22/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

[edit on 7/22/2007 by DarkStormCrow]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Ban Executive Orders and Signing Statements

Uh...so the President isn't allowed to control the executive branch anymore?


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Add the government shall be free of all references to religion in conduct of its duties.

It's already there.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Self Defense Firearms defined ( Rifles Automatic, Rifles Semi Automatic, Rifles Bolt action, Shotguns Automatic, Shotguns Semi Automatic, Shotguns Pump Action, Shotguns Single Loading, Revolvers,Pistols Semi Automatic, Pistols Single Shot).

Too specific. You need something more future-proof.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Crimes commited with Firearms carry a mandatory 25 year prison term, in addition to the penalty for other crimes in question.

That doesn't go in a constitution.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Citizens may carry Concealed Firearms for self defense. Private and Public Places may restrict the carry but must provide secure storage free of charge for the citizen who surrenders his firearm.

Oh man, I've been wanting that forever.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Voting age, Draft age, Driving age, Military Service age and Firearms ownership age raised to 20

Setting a driving age is infringing on the state's rights to choose. And I guess if I'm 18 and on my own I'm not allowed to drive to work? Thanks, I guess I'll starve.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
All prison time should be solitary confinement so as to remove the violence in prison such as gangs and rapes and murders.

Cruel and unusual punishment. Solitary confinement is a form of torture. People will literally go insane, and after you release them, you'd have to put them in a psych ward.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I am conflicted on abortion it has become too convienent

But my thoughts are as follows, no restrictions in the first trimester, after the first trimester the Physician must show that birth will result in a child that is deformed or otherwise hindered so that the childs quality of life would be significantly dimished, or giving birth would lead to the death or serious incapacitation of the
mother.

I'd let the states decide, but that's okay.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Citizens would be issued an ID card upon thier 20th birthday allowing them to Vote Drive Own and Carry firearms the card would be issued buy the State of Birth, hence you would become a citizen of your state and other states would have to honor your citizen ship with full faith and credit.
You can exchange the card if you move to another state and reside there.
No fee can be charged for the card, it is a state id that must be honored by other states.

Again, 20 is far too late for driving.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Recall elections can be held if 33 percent of a districts eligable voters sign a petition.

25,000 voters in a district if 7575 voters sign a petition a recall election is held

Then it'd be indefinite. Sometimes you have close elections where 40% voted and lost. They'd petition and petition and petition...



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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Uh...so the President isn't allowed to control the executive branch anymore?


Executive orders and Signing statements where never part of the Constitution
and they are used more to evade the law than to administer the Executive.



It's already there.


Reinforce the Idea no more Swearing or Affirming to Gods/Goddess or whoever and no more prayers in Congress and what not.No more references to Gods/Goddesses in official speeches. They can campaign with these ideas but once in office they have to be secular.



Too specific. You need something more future-proof.


Probably but if you dont lay it out then sometime down the road the right will be restricted
Maybe something such as

Arms for self defense shall be construed to be the same as small arms retained by the Armies of the several states,
past present and future.



That doesn't go in a constitution.


Penalty for misuse of rights shoud be in the Constitution



Setting a driving age is infringing on the state's rights to choose. And I guess if I'm 18 and on my own I'm not allowed to drive to work? Thanks, I guess I'll starve.


Driving can be removed


I believe Public Education should be expanded 2 years with Concentration on Ethics Civics and History, and also Teaching some sort of trade.




Cruel and unusual punishment. Solitary confinement is a form of torture. People will literally go insane, and after you release them, you'd have to put them in a psych ward.


Its a deterrent if you know you arent going to ganging and raping and murdering in prison it rather seems like punishment again. Most dont fear prison anymore because they go in knowing thier fellow criminals and just continue their criminality inside. Prisoners can still have access to media and books and stuff they just wont be in a position to harm others or build up criminal contacts.Dont do the Crime and you wont have to do the time.



I'd let the states decide, but that's okay.


Law is too inconsistant if a doctor aborts its legal, if a man kills a pregnant woman its double homicide the child is in the same state in both cases we cant have it both ways.



Again, 20 is far too late for driving.


Driving can be removed




Then it'd be indefinite. Sometimes you have close elections where 40% voted and lost. They'd petition and petition and petition...


Some type of recall mechanism needs to be place in there maybe if the percentage was 50%



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 10:58 PM
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Are you so idiotic that you think that "driving can be removed"? I don't know how ignorant you are, but surely you realize that many people need it to work?



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Executive orders and Signing statements where never part of the Constitution
and they are used more to evade the law than to administer the Executive.

Executive orders are really just a command to some part of the executive branch. We just need to make sure that executive orders follow legislation and don't violate anything. In other words, the Supreme Court needs to wake up.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Reinforce the Idea no more Swearing or Affirming to Gods/Goddess or whoever and no more prayers in Congress and what not.No more references to Gods/Goddesses in official speeches. They can campaign with these ideas but once in office they have to be secular.

I'll use God in my speech if I want. Freedom of speech, literally.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Probably but if you dont lay it out then sometime down the road the right will be restricted
Maybe something such as

Arms for self defense shall be construed to be the same as small arms retained by the Armies of the several states,
past present and future.

Something like that works. Make it so that citizens can use whatever armies or navies can use.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Penalty for misuse of rights shoud be in the Constitution

That's more of a penal code thing.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I believe Public Education should be expanded 2 years with Concentration on Ethics Civics and History, and also Teaching some sort of trade.

That's for the states or municipalities to decide.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Its a deterrent if you know you arent going to ganging and raping and murdering in prison it rather seems like punishment again. Most dont fear prison anymore because they go in knowing thier fellow criminals and just continue their criminality inside. Prisoners can still have access to media and books and stuff they just wont be in a position to harm others or build up criminal contacts.Dont do the Crime and you wont have to do the time.

Yeah, lets poke their eyes out and torture them. This isn't China, we can punish but we can't torture.

And yes, extended solitary confinement is torture.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Law is too inconsistant if a doctor aborts its legal, if a man kills a pregnant woman its double homicide the child is in the same state in both cases we cant have it both ways.

Then let the states write that. Don't be a tyrant, they can decide for themselves.



Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Some type of recall mechanism needs to be place in there maybe if the percentage was 50%

Maybe more than 2/3 of the voters for once, absolute 2/3 of all possible voters for twice, and absolute 90% for the third time. After that you have to stop the recall attempts.

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Johnmike]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
Are you so idiotic that you think that "driving can be removed"? I don't know how ignorant you are, but surely you realize that many people need it to work?


Actually if you read the post I was indicating that driving could be removed from the age requirement and from the being referenced IE let the states decide.

[edit on 7/24/2007 by DarkStormCrow]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 03:30 AM
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Ah, there you go, I'd completely misread it. I hope that I didn't come across as harsh, I interpreted it completely differently. My apologies.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 03:43 AM
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I'll use God in my speech if I want. Freedom of speech, literally.


Thats fine but God needs to be removed from oaths, the money, and the political discourse its a government of the people not of the Christian, Jewish, Islamic, or whatever people. If you are a political leader and you are favor one over another because thier religious belief or non belief you are violating thier rights. I would not restrict any individual speech outside of someone who is performing official governmental duties.



That's more of a penal code thing.


Penalties for treason are in the Constitution so why not penalties for the misuse of a fundamental right. The penalty for misuse of Firearms needs to be harsh so that in the future government does not try and restrict the rights of citizens in regard to firearms. IE defining it in the constitution protects the right and also penalizes the criminal, preventing the government from penalizing the law abiding because of actions of criminals with regards to the firearms right.



That's for the states or municipalities to decide.


Wasnt to be placed in the constitution that was a thought an idea not something I codified. Truly though our children when they graduate from public high schools are ill equipped to deal with the real world and have a poor understanding of Ethics Civics History and in most cases do not have a trade or skill.



Yeah, lets poke their eyes out and torture them. This isn't China, we can punish but we can't torture.
And yes, extended solitary confinement is torture.


I rather think that being gang raped and brutalized by other prisoners is torture. Again this was a thought an idea not something codified. I think we can agree that something needs to be done about prisons exactly how the issue is dealt with is a matter of debate.




Then let the states write that. Don't be a tyrant, they can decide for themselves.


States and Federal governments have already shown that they are incapable of dealing with the issue. Something needs to be done, I hadnt intended to codify abortion law as I said I am conflicted on the issue while I want a woman to have the right to abortion I also want something codified so that abortion doesnt become a form of birth control as it is now
1.5 million abortions are way too many. Thats 51 million abortions since Roe v Wade and thats a tragedy of epic proportions.



So basically we disagree on the Executive Orders and Signing Statements, Religious Speech as it applies to the Government in performance of its duties, and penalties for misuse of firearms.


Other things we disagree on were more thoughts and ideas as opposed something codified which is why I placed it under "other"

So we could codify in the Constitutional Limits to Executive Orders and Signing Statements.

Religious Speech as it applies to Government Officials and Government Entities needs to be dealt with. Government needs to be Religion neutral as was intended, but as of right now it is not in practice.



[edit on 7/24/2007 by DarkStormCrow]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by Johnmike
Ah, there you go, I'd completely misread it. I hope that I didn't come across as harsh, I interpreted it completely differently. My apologies.


Its all good I can see our founding fathers having the same types of misunderstandings while hashing out the Constitution the first time.

I am not the best writer, I am much better with speech plus my typing is piss poor and its hard to see in that little posting window when your trying to get things right lol

[edit on 7/24/2007 by DarkStormCrow]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Thats fine but God needs to be removed from oaths, the money, and the political discourse its a government of the people not of the Christian, Jewish, Islamic, or whatever people. If you are a political leader and you are favor one over another because thier religious belief or non belief you are violating thier rights. I would not restrict any individual speech outside of someone who is performing official governmental duties.

I agree. I feel particularly strongly about currency, since even though I don't feel that my beliefs are exclusively Christian (though I've always followed much of it), no matter the case, I find the concept of God to be sacred. Putting it on money (of all things!) like it's a joke is really a terrible disrespect. Removing from oaths as well, I don't feel as strongly about, but feel that at least for a federal government officer it should be removed (perhaps replaced with whatever the one entering office chooses?).


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Penalties for treason are in the Constitution so why not penalties for the misuse of a fundamental right. The penalty for misuse of Firearms needs to be harsh so that in the future government does not try and restrict the rights of citizens in regard to firearms. IE defining it in the constitution protects the right and also penalizes the criminal, preventing the government from penalizing the law abiding because of actions of criminals with regards to the firearms right.


It's in the constitution? I only see this...


The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.



Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Wasnt to be placed in the constitution that was a thought an idea not something I codified. Truly though our children when they graduate from public high schools are ill equipped to deal with the real world and have a poor understanding of Ethics Civics History and in most cases do not have a trade or skill.

I think that this is more of a failure of the public education system than anything. Really, it's more of a diploma factory than an actual learning environment, from what I've heard, what I've read, and from personal experience.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I rather think that being gang raped and brutalized by other prisoners is torture. Again this was a thought an idea not something codified. I think we can agree that something needs to be done about prisons exactly how the issue is dealt with is a matter of debate.

I think a major problem is that so many people are sent to prison on drug charges (like possession). I'd eliminate it entirely, but if anyone really feels that it's necessary for the government to babysit us, make it a fine. These "drug wars" are costing us way too much money. We can renovate the system with the money we save. In fact, if we make possession and later selling punishable by fine instead of jail time for a few years (progressive decriminalization?), perhaps we can use that to help give things a jump start.



Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
States and Federal governments have already shown that they are incapable of dealing with the issue. Something needs to be done, I hadnt intended to codify abortion law as I said I am conflicted on the issue while I want a woman to have the right to abortion I also want something codified so that abortion doesnt become a form of birth control as it is now
1.5 million abortions are way too many. Thats 51 million abortions since Roe v Wade and thats a tragedy of epic proportions.

I think that abortion is disgusting, but right now, too many people seem to be undecided. If we were rewriting the constitution though, I might support banning abortions. I'm not adamant on the issue, so don't quote me on it.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
So we could codify in the Constitutional Limits to Executive Orders and Signing Statements.

You'd have to put some check on it. The Supreme Court does that, but it hasn't done its job very well.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
Religious Speech as it applies to Government Officials and Government Entities needs to be dealt with. Government needs to be Religion neutral as was intended, but as of right now it is not in practice.

Just let them say what they want as long as religion isn't in the federal government.




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