Islamic Conversion Forced on Fox Journalist's for Freedom!

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Bin Laden deems US's decrease in aide to Afghans, after the war with Russia, as an attack. This is where his fallacy lies. He then uses this excuse to kill innocent people, even Afghans who are Muslim.

He also cannot attack anyone who wants peace. I'm sure the people innocent he's killed did not want to start a war.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by DJMessiah]

im sure he cites more then that as a reason why the west is attacking islam.

this very well may be the initial grudge... axe to grind... catalist for anger though.

Bin Laden's intentions are known only to him. From what I've read on his behavior and actions, he resents the west after the Russian military occupation in Afghanistan. I can say though, his actions are far from Islamic. The US has been asking for peace in the Middle East, and Bin Laden has ignored it.

Maybe next time FOX News send Islamic Journalists...

Originally posted by derfred33
Maybe next time FOX News send Islamic Journalists...

I doubt it'd matter. I bet most Islamicists would still call them infidels for working for a U.S. news organization.

Steve Centanni was suppose to be on fox tonight telling more about the ordeal has anyone seen it??? I'm at work and unable to see it


I'm sure there is more to the story than has been reported. I belive he is going to be on Greta van Sustren

[edit on 29-8-2006 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Bin Laden's intentions are known only to him. From what I've read on his behavior and actions, he resents the west after the Russian military occupation in Afghanistan. I can say though, his actions are far from Islamic. The US has been asking for peace in the Middle East, and Bin Laden has ignored it.

I beg your pardon, but how exactly are Osama Bin Laden's actions far from Islam?

Mohammed's view of Christianity and the Jewish people changed dramatically after they rejected Islam and rejected him as a prophet. At first Mohammed was more tolerant towards Christianity and Judaism, but his anger towards Jewish people and Christians can be seen in later chapters of the Quran. Mohammed even ordered Muslims to stop praying towards the north, Jerusalem, and to pray towards Mecca instead, of course the account in the Quran is that Allah said to change the direction to which they prayed so they would pray towards a different direction than the Jewish people.

I know there are many moderate Muslim people that would never accept the extremist view, but the truth is that Mohammed was not a peaceful man. In fact we know he raided caravans, killed people, including people who had surrendered, took slaves from raided caravans as captives and wives, and he even broke laws which the archangel Gabriel gave and all Muslim people should follow, such as only being able to marry 4 women. Mohammed married 9-12, most of which were captured slaves, some were Christians, some were Jewish, but also some Arab women.

I am not a religious person, but i wish that there was a new Muslim prophet, or at least that all, or most of the Islamic clerics would proclaim that the old ways are not to be followed anymore, that is the only way I can see Islamic extremism changing to a more moderate form of Islam, peacefully.

BTW, what was it that Mohammed told the newly converted Muslims to do to spread Islam, and what was it that they did?

[edit on 29-8-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Jamuhn
And as noble as that may sound, it's easy to see how fringe groups can get confused and go to the extreme. It happens with all religions...christianity, jewish, hindus, etc.

And the other extreme happens as well. People willing to let others trample their beliefs until they no longer can remember what they first believed. It's because people are faulty, not the religions themselves. This same behavior happens outside of religious concepts, too. Anything that is debateable draws this type of behavior....very likely associated with mob mentality.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Bin Laden's intentions are known only to him. From what I've read on his behavior and actions, he resents the west after the Russian military occupation in Afghanistan. I can say though, his actions are far from Islamic. The US has been asking for peace in the Middle East, and Bin Laden has ignored it.

I believe Bin Laden's frustration results mainly from the 1991 Gulf War when Saudi Arabia asked for help from the US in defending themselves from the Iraqis. Bin Laden stated that the successful Mujahideen from Afghanistan would be able to defeat the Iraqis, much as they did with the Russians, but the Saudis opted for the Americans instead and allowed them to build bases as well. So Bin Laden eventually fell in disfavor with the Saudis and was exiled.

No doubt nomater how many verses that I post .. some will say that I am trying to hide other parts...

Quran Surah 9
1. A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-2. Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.3. And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.4. (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.9. The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.10. In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.11. But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.12. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!14. Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
15. And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Now CLEARLY if you read 1-5 you will see that first there is a call for repentance.. and a warning against those who deny faith. Next is a statement that pagan allies whom follow their agreements are to be left alone. Then after the forbiden months a call for war against the pagans. It clearly says to kill them. It clearly says to kill pagans unless they convert to Islam. The only ones that are identified to not be killed are the ones that are already in alliance with muslims. ... continued



[edit on 29-8-2006 by Heckman]

The surah's in the quran are not in the order that they were "revealed" to Muhammad. Surah 9 which I have quoted out of above is the second to the last surah revealed to Muhammad. The last being a very short surah 110 which says: When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,And thou dost see the people enter Allah's Religion in crowds, Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

Therefore being the last surah to teach about war , violent Muslims base Quran teachings of war in surah 9 rather than more peaceful teachings in other surahs because it is the last teachings revealed to Muhammad.

This is the proper way of ordering the rank according to:

Surah 2: 106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?



[edit on 29-8-2006 by Heckman]

Thanks for clearing up the confusion between the two side of the spectrum of Islam for me, it is much clearer to me now why this religion has grown in such a speedy fashion.

I have voted Heckman and Maudidb for "way above" on certain posts you guys have made concerning these issues, people want to put a spin on the facts and try to sway the issues to make their position sound more reasonable.

I would have given djmessiah a vote for his stand on the moderate muslim side, but I was out of votes. One thing is for sure we need more Islamic leaders with the kind of veiws djmessiah has toward non-muslims.

It makes me wonder why the Islamic leaders always seem to lean more towards the extremist side rather than the moderate?? How do they become leaders?? are they chosen by the many to lead?? and if so perhaps Islamic extremism is far more accepted by the moderate than we realize.

Originally posted by the_sentinal


It makes me wonder why the Islamic leaders always seem to lean more towards the extremist side rather than the moderate?? How do they become leaders?? are they chosen by the many to lead?? and if so perhaps Islamic extremism is far more accepted by the moderate than we realize.

i think its because the moderates are afraid of the radicals. they are afriad of speaking out because they fear retrubution from thier own or something.

Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by the_sentinal


It makes me wonder why the Islamic leaders always seem to lean more towards the extremist side rather than the moderate?? How do they become leaders?? are they chosen by the many to lead?? and if so perhaps Islamic extremism is far more accepted by the moderate than we realize.

i think its because the moderates are afraid of the radicals. they are afriad of speaking out because they fear retrubution from thier own or something.

Or maybe the radicals are supported by the moderates because they realize that the radicals are the ones spreading their religion??

I remember a story I watched on CNN where the radical Islamics had family members who were moderates, who they could count on to help them when they needed it because the radicals had to stay on the move.

sorry double post.....................................................

[edit on 30-8-2006 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by the_sentinal

Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by the_sentinal


It makes me wonder why the Islamic leaders always seem to lean more towards the extremist side rather than the moderate?? How do they become leaders?? are they chosen by the many to lead?? and if so perhaps Islamic extremism is far more accepted by the moderate than we realize.

i think its because the moderates are afraid of the radicals. they are afriad of speaking out because they fear retrubution from thier own or something.

Or maybe the radicals are supported by the moderates because they realize that the radicals are the ones spreading their religion??

I remember a story I watched on CNN where the radical Islamics had family members who were moderates, who they could count on to help them when they needed it because the radicals had to stay on the move.

could be. thats new to me.

is there really such a collabrative amongst the different sides in islam?

So Islams the problem?

So whats next, sages?

Gullags? Ghettos? Come on, whats the logical next step now that we've identified that 1 billion people are now the enemy?

Come on, lets get some final solutions to this nightmare of a problem we're facing. Stop your tulip-walking and come up with some suggestions to this problem you guys have discovered. Dont be shy now.

[edit on 30/8/06 by subz]

im still searching. i havent the answer. just when i think i figure some concrete stuff out in this whole islam thing... im doing a double take.

i wish i could get to a solution part... really... but all this sh-it is so dang confusing.

Originally posted by subz
So Islams the problem?

So whats next, sages?

Gullags? Ghettos? Come on, whats the logical next step now that we've identified that 1 billion people are now the enemy?

Come one, lets get some final solutions to this nightmare of a problem we're facing. Stop your tulip-walking and come up with some suggestions to this problem you guys have discovered. Dont be shy now.

[edit on 30/8/06 by subz]

No one is saying that one billion people are now the enemy, but there is a fraction of that number that counts us as the enemy. and there is no easy answer to the problem of radical Islam. Maybe you have a few ideas Subz???

Apart from moderates standing up to the radicals there is no way you see an effective change in terrorist actions.IMHO





[edit on 30-8-2006 by the_sentinal]

Wait, but I thought that it's Islam that is the problem. Since there are 1 billion adherents to Islam in the World that means 1 billion enemies, right?

So shouldnt we just round up all muslims and either force them to recount their faith or intern them like we did the Japanese. We're at war here, we should lock them all up right? If Islam is making them violent and blood thirsty murderers lets lock them all up, right?

Originally posted by the_sentinal
Steve Centanni was suppose to be on fox tonight telling more about the ordeal has anyone seen it??? I'm at work and unable to see it

[edit on 29-8-2006 by the_sentinal]

Nobody saw it? I saw it advertised but couldnt watch it.

Anyone?