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Islamic Conversion Forced on Fox Journalist's for Freedom!

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posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 10:14 PM
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So is everyone just going to ignore my facts I posted? you cannot really deny math. It is kinda hard to use extremists actions as the justification of Islam being a warmongering religion when only a fraction of 1% of their followers are actually involved in the religous violence.

One billion followers. one percent being ten million. Much less than ten million involved in all this violence that everyone claims to be the trademark of Islam here....




posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 10:17 PM
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It's easy to sit here on your fat ass , spouting your ignornce knowing someone else will take the brunt of it. Way easy, isn't it? The problem with islamaniacs is the rest of the world has evolved passed violent conversion. Do mankind a favior and wake up!

Next time you meet one , show pics. What's more disgusting?

Picture of mohaMAD or two dead babies at the hands of his followers BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWISH?



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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Joseph Kony, leader of the Lord's Resistance Army, mixed northern politics with religious mysticism, declaring himself a Christian prophet fighting to rule this country of 26 million people by the Ten Commandments.

U.N. officials estimate Kony's guerrillas kidnapped some 20,000 children over the past 19 years, turning the boys into soldiers and the girls into sex slaves for rebel commanders. Rebel attacks and atrocities also drove 1.7 million to flee their homes.

Source

See I think I figure it out. Notice the sick atrocities that were committed in the last two decades, much MUCH worse than any of the Hamas, Hezbollah, or Iraqi guerillas and yet they are only rebel fighters. This is because they declare themselves Christians.

Only Muslims are actually declared terrorists. Radical fanatic groups claiming a Christian base are almost always in the media labeled as anything but a terrorists, although the atrocities are on a larger scale for a prolongued period and much mroe hideous. This typically occurs in Africa. and yes many of these are very political and attempts to overthrow governments, close to the same thing these Islamic groups do.

The only exception to Christians being called terrorists are probably the IRA no?

Im only arguing technical terms and not my beliefs here. I mean can anyone find any media articles from the popular news outlets labelig Christian groups who commit similar if not worse atrocities?

That article I cited described themn terrorizing citizzens, but never once called them terrorists. Are they even on the State Departments list of Terrorist groups? Are any Christian groups? Africa is full of them, and even some parts of Asia.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
....................

First you have a group that call themselves the "Holy Jihad Brigades", a name that incorporates english words and would translate as "Holy Holy-War Brigades". Make sense? Not to me. Unless it was invented for western consumption.


Since when does Jihad means Holy?.... one of the most common meanings of Jihad is "Struggle", which could be a struggle against self or a struggle with arms... The right translation would be "Holy Struggle Brigades" or "Brigades of the Holy Struggle".


Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Second you have a demand that is so vague it can't possibly be fullfilled. Just release "some prisoners". Sorry, but I don't buy that as a serious demand and it sounds like a safe option to me - from somebody who doesn't really want any muslim prisoners released.


As vague as a demand for all Americans to convert to Islam and everything will be forgiven?... Osama Bin Laden was bashed by Islamic clerics and Islamic extremists for not offering the U.S. an option to convert to Islam, which he later on did, as well as other Islamic extremists....

If this was an isolated event then you could be right, but this is not an isolated event...it has been happening to "regular people" for centuries and even millenia, in this case it just happened to two journalists from a major news network...that's the only difference.... but if you make a search on the internet you will find many cases like what happened to these two journalists, some people were as lucky as these journalists while others were murdered...



Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Third you have an outcome that is like a neo-con's wet dream. Can you imagine the effect this will have on the Republican's Christian Base? Wholesome hometown reporter forced to deny Christ by his muslim captors? Man, I bet those votes are already locked in and counted. :shk:


again....this has happened many times before....this is nothing new except that it happened to two journalists from a major news agency....


Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe
Fourth, FOX News and all the right wing pundits have a new poster boy (who btw now has a very bright future in media, guaranteed) and will be yelling "I told you so" from now until the mid-terms are over.

I'm sorry but this is way too convenient and lacks credibility IMO. I believe there's a link between the "Holy Jihad Brigades" and the "Mujahadeen Brigades" and that both are bogus.


And you can think whatever you want...but it doesn't make it true, it just makes it "your opinion"...

The facts are that things like this have been happening for a very long time, it just never happened to two journalists from a mayor news network.

This has been happening all over the world, and just because you didn't know the facts, doesn't mean that this was made up...


Pak Hindu girls forced to convert to Islam
By Hasan Mansoor

An alarming trend—that of Muslims kidnapping Pakistani Hindu girls and forcing them to convert to Islam—in Pakistan’s Sindh province is forcing the worried resident Hindu community to marry off their daughters as soon as they are of marriageable age or to migrate to India, Canada or other nations.

Recently, at least 19 such abduction cases have occurred in Karachi alone, while several others have been reported in the media.

Sanao Menghwar, a Hindu resident of Karachi’s Punjab Colony, is a traumatised man; all three of his daughters—Aishwarya, Reena and Reema— have been kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam.

www.organiser.org...


30 May, 2006
PAKISTAN
Around 600 people a year are forcely converted to Islam
by Qaiser Felix

A meeting about the practice was organized by the Minority Rights Commission of Pakistan. The courts were accused of being too dependent on their Islamic environment. A Catholic bishop said the feudal mentality and the economy also play a part.

Lahore (AsiaNews) – The same Islam that pronounces death for conversion to another religion, forces women married to Muslims to become Muslims too. Forced conversions figures reach between 500 to 600 people a year in Pakistan, although “national media report only 100 such cases” that police and the courts “treat prejudicially”. This was the most significant conclusion of a meeting on “Forced Conversion of Women and Minorities Rights in Pakistan” held on 26 May in a hotel in Lahore.

More than 50 human rights activists, lawyers and representatives of religious minorities from four provinces of Pakistan participated in the consultation organized by the Minority Rights Commission of Pakistan (MRC).

www.asianews.it...



News and Updates
Orang Asli cry foul over ‘forced’ conversion
2/3/2005


Claudia Theophilus
Malaysiakini


A group of Orang Asli in Kelantan claim they have been duped, and even ‘forced’ in some cases, to convert into Islam by the state Islamic and Malay Customar Council (MAIK).

Relating how he was tricked in 2001, Muslim convert Hassan bin Ain, 59, from Kuala Betis said he was approached by a man pretending to be interested in the herbal roots he was plying.

“I’m now a registered Muslim ... but not because I wanted it. Instead, I was deceived into giving my personal details to someone who had later filled up the conversion form,” he said when met in Terengganu recently.

“A month later, I received RM400 and only then did I realise that my details had been used to register my conversion to Islam. The money I received was a token (saguhati),” he added.

Hassan was among 50 Orang Asli women and men who gathered at Kampung Batu 13 near Jerteh in Hulu Besut during the Hari Raya Haji break for an inter-faith and cultural event organised by the controversial religious mystic Ariffin Mohammad, better known as Ayah Pin.

‘Dragged out of their homes’

Hassan believes more than 500 had converted to Islam out of the 2,600 Orang Asli in Kuala Betis.

“Over 60 people got duped into converting to Islam the same way as me,” he added.

He also claimed that more than 10 physically-disabled, ill, aged and mentally-unstable Orang Asli were allegedly dragged out of their homes by force and registered.

www.suaram.net...

I am pretty certain that some people will come and try to claim that this is not true, etc, etc, etc... but they will never be able to deny the facts, they'll just claim is a "political or government psyops"...as they always do when their claims are debunked with facts.



Sufis allege forced conversion in Muslim town

[TamilNet, November 03, 2004 14:08 GMT]
Clerics of a Sufi sect of Islam in Kattankudy, a large Muslim town near Batticaloa riven by religious clashes which started four days ago, said Wednesday that more than six hundred of their followers were forcibly converted to orthodoxy under threat of violence and death. Sri Lanka army troops were also deployed in the troubled town along with special riot Police to prevent further violence.

More than two hundred Muslim families that belong to the Sufi sect led by the cleric Abdur Rauf Mowlavi sought refuge in Araiyampathy, a Tamil village next to Kattankudy Tuesday night, fearing violent attacks by armed orthodox Islamic groups.

www.tamilnet.com...

Forced conversions to Islam is nothing new, but as I stated a couple times already the only difference now is that two journalists from a mayor news media were the targets of forced conversion.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
So is everyone just going to ignore my facts I posted? you cannot really deny math. It is kinda hard to use extremists actions as the justification of Islam being a warmongering religion when only a fraction of 1% of their followers are actually involved in the religous violence.

One billion followers. one percent being ten million. Much less than ten million involved in all this violence that everyone claims to be the trademark of Islam here....


First question would be where did you contrive these numbers from??

I'm not saying they are wrong or anything but the problem is (and would probably account for the silence from everyone concerning your post) the numbers dont tell the whole story, for instance: what percentage of Islam actually condones and supports the 1% who are involved in the religous violence. That number in all likelyhood would be considerably higher.

It's the things beyond the numbers that cause people to label Isalm a warmongering religion and for the life of me I cannot understand why people like you & subs would defend a religion that would rather see you dead due to your Infidel status (if in fact you are not muslim) rather than let you live as a reproach to the rest of the muslim brotherhood.

Sure a unfortunate mix of paganism and christianity blotted the landscape of the darkages people who left the clear teachings of christ and proceded to darken the name of christianity during a time in history but as heckman pointed out in his post and went unanswered or acknowledged (which I Applauded) went against all written new testament scripture.

Heckman pointed out that radical Islamic fanatics are not deviating from the Quran by doing these barbarisms, but fullfilling them which he quoted the passages quite nicely. Herein is the fundamental difference between christianity and Islam, christians who have commited acts of violence against humanity for the sake of their belief have left the teachings of the bible to do so. Muslims have not left the teachings of Quran in doing violence against humanity.

Sure we had a crackpot blow up an abortion clinic in an isolated incident, but when was the last time you heard of a christian hijacking an airliner?, or when was the last time you heard of a christian blowing up a bus or a trian?? Cum,on folks were comparing apples and oranges here.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 11:36 PM
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So is everyone just going to ignore my facts I posted? you cannot really deny math. It is kinda hard to use extremists actions as the justification of Islam being a warmongering religion when only a fraction of 1% of their followers are actually involved in the religous violence.



Your made up "facts" are bogus there are far more than 10 million "religious violence" fighters in Iran alone. You clearly do not understand the scope of violence that goes on in the Muslim world between Muslim sects and against others.

Aside from that it does not change what the quran teaches , which is war against unbelievers. Peaceful Muslims are people who do not follow the calls to war and violence that are in the Quran.


[edit on 28-8-2006 by Heckman]



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 11:47 PM
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To those bashing Islam and stating that it "forces" people to the Islamic faith or risk death, then you really need to start reading.

Islam DOES NOT force anyone into being a Muslim. Infact, it's against Islam to do so. Here is proof, read Surrah 2:256 of the Quran. It says, "Let there be no compulsion in religion."



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by Heckman
Aside from that it does not change what the quran teaches , which is war against unbelievers. Peaceful Muslims are people who do not follow the calls to war and violence that are in the Quran.


And you can prove this by posting these "calls to war" that is in the Quran? I would also recomend you post what the verse prior to the one you are refering to and after what you are refering to says.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 11:57 PM
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heckman posted the pertinent quran scriptures for his claims in a previous post .....





TextAnd slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out for persecution is worse than slaughter. (Quran 2:191)



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:01 AM
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You mean the same one that is always taken out of context by people afraid to post the real verse? Why don't you read the verses before and after it. You will see that the verses always say to make peace first, and if the peace is broken by the offenders, then we can defend when we're attacked. Go ahead and post the verses before and after that one, if you're not afraid of diminishing your ignorance.

Read this thread as well:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I go over the very same verse you claim commands to kill others:

Surah 2:190-193 = Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers. If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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sorry i did not have access to the whole scripture with the before and after verses I pasted the scripture from heckmans post because i'm at work on a company computer and do not have access to a quran here.

But it would seem that most Islamic extremist kinda fudge on the aggression part. I would question why they kill without being attacked??

And why they would convert people at gunpoint??

[edit on 29-8-2006 by the_sentinal]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by the_sentinal
sorry i did not have access to the whole scripture with the before and after verses I pasted the scripture from heckmans post because i'm at work on a company computer and do not have access to a quran here.

But it would seem that most Islamic extremist kinda fudge on the aggression part. I would question why they kill without being attacked??

And why they would convert people at gunpoint??

[edit on 29-8-2006 by the_sentinal]


are there two seprate korans? what koran are these radicals reading?

either they cant read, or they have another book.

if they have another book then which is the right one ... the true koran?



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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How about some quran quotes sited by Ben Ladden himself in his decleration of war on americans.

quran 8 ( called the spoils of war chapter )

72. Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile, ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah seeth all that ye do.

73. The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief.

74. Those who believe, and adopt exile, and fight for the Faith, in the cause of Allah as well as those who give (them) asylum and aid,- these are (all) in very truth the Believers: for them is the forgiveness of sins and a provision most generous.

Quran 9

9:14
13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
14. Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,
15. And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise


Quran 47

3. This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
4. Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah.s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
5. Soon will He guide them and improve their condition


DJMessiah I was not "afraid" to post anything I was comparing the teachings of Muhammad to that of Jesus and their differences on killing and violence.




[edit on 29-8-2006 by Heckman]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:38 AM
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DJMessiah is that in the koran you are using... what is posted above by Heckman???



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by the_sentinal
sorry i did not have access to the whole scripture with the before and after verses I pasted the scripture from heckmans post because i'm at work on a company computer and do not have access to a quran here.

But it would seem that most Islamic extremist kinda fudge on the aggression part. I would question why they kill without being attacked??

And why they would convert people at gunpoint??

[edit on 29-8-2006 by the_sentinal]


are there two seprate korans? what koran are these radicals reading?

either they cant read, or they have another book.

if they have another book then which is the right one ... the true koran?



Thats the whole problem, to me, the quran is very easiliy misunderstood because of the green light given to kill those who are infidels if the personal interpratation warrents such action, too much gray area to play with.

DJmessiah has a full working knowledge of the quran and has corrected many here on the improper use of the quran scriptures, We need more like you djmessiah over their in Iran calling out those who are not following the proper use of these scriptures, but sadly I dont think your interpretations would sit well in Iran.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by the_sentinal]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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Thank you the_sentinal. There are many misconceptions about Islam, especially where I live, so I try to do my part as a true Muslim in helping to spread peace and understanding. One misconception always stems from the word "infidel." The true word in the Quran is "Kaffir" meaning, one who is not monotheistic (Believer in one God). Christians and Jews are never refered to as "Kaffirs" in the Quran, because the Quran recognizes them as our brethren in faith, and they too will go to heaven, regardless of whether or not they are Muslim. The greatest teachings the Quran conveys is to love thy fellow man, choose peace, be tolerant of other faiths, and value wisdom/education/knowledge.

The reason why groups like Al-Queida have been mis-using and misquoting the Quran as an excuse for violence, is because they are power hungry and believe they can lead Islam through their teachings. They take advantage of the illiteracy of the people they recruit in the improverished towns, by stating that the Quran instucts them to kill in order to go to heaven, when the illiterate people have no way to object, due to their inability to read the verses in the Quran that instruct them not to do so.

Groups like Al-Quedia, Taliban, and any other terrorist organization that says they represent Islam are not true Muslims. They kill their own Muslim brothers and sisters, blindly believing that they are doing the right thing, while ignoring verses that forbid their very acts they commit. In a time of war, Muslims are not to harm anyone who asks for peace, anyone who is elderly, cripple, sick, cannot fight, women, children, innocents, even trees on the land, and the defenders. The Quran only allows fighting if we Muslims are the ones who need to defend. It will not allow Muslims to be the offenders. Doing so, is against its teachings and against Islam.

Surah - "Al Baqarah" 2:62 "Those who believe, Jews, Nazarenes (Christians) and Sabaeans - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds - shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear nor are they saddened."

[edit on 29-8-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah


Surah - "Al Baqarah" 2:62 "Those who believe, Jews, Nazarenes (Christians) and Sabaeans - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds - shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear nor are they saddened."

[edit on 29-8-2006 by DJMessiah]


so no need for conversion according the modern.moderate practice of islam? its fine to be a jew or a christain in your text?



[edit on 29-8-2006 by krossfyter]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 01:50 AM
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ive said before that ive known muslims and thought they were among the kindest people ive known. the problem we are facing is that there are radicals among them just as there are christians who think its ok to bomb abortion clinics. depending on your own interpretation of "terrorist" there is no difference.

to label any group is just ignorant and to say that all muslims are violent just because the koran has some passages that may be taken out of context is very ignorant. cmon guys/gals...how many of you 'christians' out there live and breathe by the 10 commandments? or by ALL of jesus's teachings?

my last confession when the priest asked me my sins, it was easier for me to reply 'well padre, lets make it easy, ill list the commandments i HAVNT broken...i havent killed anyone, i havnt worshipped any graven images...uhhh....yeah, so lets go from there"

we are all sinners to a degree, some just go further than others.

if you want some real insight into the mind of a terrorist, try to find a copy of the al-queda training manual that was found in london a few years ago. chances are you'll find the 'sanitized' version that doesnt have the recipie for ricin, but it still a chilling read. (no i cant post a link...i have the 'unsanitized' version cuz of waht i used to do)

as to the actual topic of this thread, id have been more impressed had the reporters taken a lesson from the teenage girl that was killed in columbine. when asked if she believed in god while a gun was to her head, she said yes. it was, sadly, the last thing she ever said. THAT is courage incarnate. could i say id have been as strong...im not sure honestly, i can say i would be but ive never been faced with that situation.

but thats just me.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 02:16 AM
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In a time of war, Muslims are not to harm anyone who asks for peace


You fail to mention that this asking for peace you speak of is either that you convert to Islam or that you pay the jizya tax ( a tribute tax) and live in submission as an inferior in "peace"

Here are some verses from the Quran explaining my statements and explaining why the fox reporters were "converted" to islam.

Quran 9

5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (You must practice regular prairs and regular charity, in other words convert to Islam) ( Fox reporters captured )

6. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. (Fox reporters learned about islam)

7. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Messenger, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

8. How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.

9. The Signs of Allah have they sold for a miserable price, and (many) have they hindered from His way: evil indeed are the deeds they have done.

10. In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.

11. But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand. (the fox reporters "converted" and were let go)

12. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.

13.Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

14. Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

15. And still the indignation of their hearts. For Allah will turn (in mercy) to whom He will; and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

27. Again will Allah, after this, turn (in mercy) to whom He will: for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful.

28. O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. ( people of the book are jews and christains and must pay tribute taxes and be in willing submission)

[edit on 29-8-2006 by Heckman]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 02:18 AM
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btw for anyone who wants to read the Quran for themself www.wam.umd.edu...



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