For me, this is proof that most on ATS have had the wool pulled over their eyes if they "find it hard to believe muslims would forcibly convert people" how the hell do you think Islam spread so fast? missionaries? To my knowledge there are no islamic missionaries (at least any that dont saw heads off and carry kalashnikov rifles with them

I love how people will point out the wrongs of the Church when comparing Islam. The big problem with that is you are comparing the church of half a millenia ago to CURRENT Islamic views.

I dont give a damn what anybody says, I am a Christian and a peace loving one at that.... The ignorance of the christian faith alone on this board surprises me. So when people make ludicrous claims like "Islam is a religion of peace" I have to snicker a bit becuase they obviously havent bothered to read some of their "teachings".








[edit on 28-8-2006 by XphilesPhan]

"The Zarqawi PSYOP program is the most successful information campaign to date" Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmit, chief spokesmen 2004, when the PSYOP began.

False Flag Operations and Disinformation- Is that all we can cite as proof?

how many times does Jesus say to kill the non believer?

how many times does mohammed say to kill the non believer?

Originally posted by War_Monger

I took his advice and read the koran and I was shocked at the intolerance, hate, contradiction and down right evil contained in the book.

Funny - I think the same thing when I read passages from the bible....

You only get what you want to out of a book such as the Koran or the bible....
You can find passages in the bible that preach intolerance, hate, contradiction (this one especially) and down right evil. There are passages that also teach acceptance, love, fellowship toward mankind, etc and you can find these in the Koran as well. Extremists on both sides claim they have a "mandate" from God or Allah to cary out wicked acts based on what is written in a book. Extremists of course will also only look at the negative of the other when defending their own.
Islam is not evil, nor is Christianity - only what man (or woman ) does with them.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

I love how people will point out the wrongs of the Church when comparing Islam. The big problem with that is you are comparing the church of half a millenia ago to CURRENT Islamic views.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Um, the catholic church has systematically covered up the sexual assault of young boys for YEARS!!!! This is FAR more recent than half a millenia ago - and dont give me this "few bad apples crap". The order to cover this up came right from Rome.

Oh, and BTW - christians may not be travelling the world putting guns to peoples heads to convert, but there are far more persuasive ways to convert someone other than using a gun.

Ok here we go again, Ill show you how Islam is not about violence using math.
Estimated 1,000,000,000 humans on Earth with Islam as their faith.
10,000,000 = one percent that is 1% of the number one billion.

Obviously, the amount of extremeists is nowhere near ten million, otherwise things would be a bit different in the world right now. So if the amount of Muslim extremists who force violence on the world is only a fraction of one percent of the entire Islamic population, can you explain to me how Islam is a religion of violence? If spreading their faith through violence is the goal of Islam, why is it that 99.999~% of their people are mostly peaceful people not waging war?

I mean you can say whatever you want about the Iraq insurgency, Palestinians, 9/11, Hezbollah, or Al-Qaeda, but all together they barely even constitue a fraction of one percent of the enitre religon of Islam. So umm, all those lovely Islam haters, how do you explain that away?

Oh I know, YOUR BRAINS HAVE BEEN WASHED!! With some fresh scented Island Fresh Gain no doubt. Or perhaps Wisk?

Look I am glad this journalist is free, and absolutley deplore the alleged actions of the kidnappers, but the math shows plain and simple that this blind hate and accusations against Islam are baseless.

There are small towns in isloated spots of the Wes which are no doubt still burning Witches, but when the media simply reports it as arson or general murder, how are we going to know the truth?

Again, thankful for this guys release, although we may never see justice dealt upon those who were responsible for this crime.

Steve Centenni, who was the Fox News journalist captured in this latest incident, used to be a reporter here in my home town. I met him on a few different occasions. I have very few doubts about his courage. I'm sure that he recognized that what he was being put through was meant to be a form of degradation and humiliation.

I spent some time on a radio program that airs down the States talking about this today. Forcing a 'conversion' to Islam is an old tactic that first came to our attention in the 1970's. It's a rather pathetic form of propoganda that plays well in the refugee camps, but it doesn't mean much anywhere else.

With that in mind, I don't think we should read too much in to it. Out-dated amateur tactics from an unknown group that no doubt undertook its very first kidnapping tells us that the resistors in Gaza are long on nerve but short on ideas.

Hmm the Bible is all sunshine and lolipops isnt it?

Genesis 22:10 - And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Such a heart warming story where the Christian God demands Abraham slaughter his son. Only to change his mind at the last minute, so compasionate.

Genesis 34:25 - And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.

Another heart warming story where, after forcibly circumcising some men and boys, these pleasant folk set about killing all the males within the city.

How about Exodus where the Christian God kills every first born child of the Egyptians?

Exodus 11:5 - And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

What a loving and compassionate God the Christian God is. Killing all those babies and children like that

Shall I continue? Look, we dont go around saying all Christians are violent because the Bible is full of violence do we? So where do you guys get off saying Islam is violent because of the Quran and some extremists? It's totally hypocritical and bigotted.

Oh and before I am asked, I was baptised by the Church of England but I am an atheist. I respect all religious people who stick to the compassionate side that all religions preach.

[edit on 28/8/06 by subz]

Originally posted by LogansRun
Um, the catholic church has systematically covered up the sexual assault of young boys for YEARS!!!! This is FAR more recent than half a millenia ago - and dont give me this "few bad apples crap". The order to cover this up came right from Rome.

Oh, and BTW - christians may not be travelling the world putting guns to peoples heads to convert, but there are far more persuasive ways to convert someone other than using a gun.

Except that the pedophile priests did not saw heads off or force those boys to convert to Catholicism. Two different things, really.

Originally posted by subz
Hmm the Bible is all sunshine and lolipops isnt it?

Genesis 22:10 - And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Such a heart warming story where the Christian God demands Abraham slaughter his son. Only to change his mind at the last minute, so compasionate.

Genesis 34:25 - And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.

Another heart warming story where, after forcibly circumcising some men and boys, these pleasant folk set about killing all the males within the city.

How about Exodus where the Christian God kills every first born child of the Egyptians?

Exodus 11:5 - And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

What a loving and compassionate God the Christian God is. Killing all those babies and children like that

Shall I continue? Look, we dont go around saying all Christians are violent because the Bible is full of violence do we? So where do you guys get off saying Islam is violent because of the Quran and some extremists? It's totally hypocritical and bigotted.

Oh and before I am asked, I was baptised by the Church of England but I am an atheist. I respect all religious people who stick to the compassionate side that all religions preach.

[edit on 28/8/06 by subz]

Notice all his examples come from the old testament and the torah which is thousands of years old. I cannot explain away the evident violence in the Old Testament compared to the New because I am not a theology major. I can tell you that the clear differences show a clear PROGRESS from such violent acts to more peaceful ones.

the koran shows no such progression....

Also those who justify Islamic extermists by pointing out Christain extremism are not taking into account the disproportionate amount of extremism by muslims compared to christians.

I can name 5 Islamic extremist groups off the top of my head...

I could name maybe one or two christian extremist groups...

That should tell you something...

[edit on 28-8-2006 by XphilesPhan]

You know what it tells me? That we live in the Christian dominated West. Of course we're meant to be biased. We're fed this kind of bigotry from all angles.

Hmm so the New Testament is not as violent, and here's me thinking the Bible was the word of God. So it can be re-written and still be the word of God.....alrighty then.

I love the justifications for Christianity not being violent simply because there are more violent Muslims than Christians. What kind of faulty logic is that? Either Islam is violent or it is not. Either Christianity is violent or it is not. How can there be half measures simply due to numbers?

All muslims are not violent so how can you still preach this broad brush mentality and then defend Christianity because lesser numbers of Christians are violent? It's complete hogwash. Signing off, arguing with zealots - on a hiding to nowhere.

The Quran simply CALLS FOR WAR on non believers constantly. The peaceful passages are not for use with non believers unless they are in submission paying a tribute tax and living as an inferior (dhimma). Again read the Quran and learn about what it teaches.

Peaceful Muslims do not strictly ad hear to the Quran and do not follow the calls for war and domination of non muslims.

The fact is that ISLAM is a violent religion that teaches war at its very core (the Quran).

Sounds a bit harsh doesnt it. I thought so as well until reading the Quran.

[edit on 28-8-2006 by Heckman]

Originally posted by subz
You know what it tells me? That we live in the Christian dominated West. Of course we're meant to be biased. We're fed this kind of bigotry from all angles.

last i looked christian bashing is at all time high in the west... the west is also highly bigoted against christianity.

landoverbaptist.org anyone?


so that may just negate your arguement there. may... i say.. may. lol



[edit on 28-8-2006 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by subz
You know what it tells me? That we live in the Christian dominated West. Of course we're meant to be biased. We're fed this kind of bigotry from all angles.

last i looked christian bashing is at all time high in the west... the west is also highly bigoted against christianity.

Tell that to the Jehova's witnesses that are always riding around telling people that America is a Christian country.

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by subz
You know what it tells me? That we live in the Christian dominated West. Of course we're meant to be biased. We're fed this kind of bigotry from all angles.

last i looked christian bashing is at all time high in the west... the west is also highly bigoted against christianity.

Tell that to the Jehova's witnesses that are always riding around telling people that America is a Christian country.

of course christains ... either protestant or catholic or even cults will tell you america is a christian country. but most athiests deny america being a christian country.

so whats up with that?

its christian and not christian when its convienent.

last time i talk to an atheist they were very adament in proclaiming america as secular.





[edit on 28-8-2006 by krossfyter]