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One Nation, Under God

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posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 04:18 PM
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Is everyone aware that it was because of the activities of the Knights of Columbus that "UNDER GOD" was placed in the pledge of allegiance? And recently they lobbied and fought to keep it in the pledge of allegiance.

What are your opinions of this?




posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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hey is that the the cult-town that is owned by some billionaire who has led people to believe he is god? I thought it was in Texas though?


Edn

posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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Your not going to get away from the fact that as long as the magority of people that are in power are Christians then they are going to force there beliefs on you just as any other religion I would imagine. That is the one main problem with politics most of them are blinded by there religion.

Personaly I belive that that sort of stuff should be completely removed, it may have been apropriate a couple of hundred years ago when almost all Americans were Christian but its definetly not apropriate today.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 05:37 PM
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I knew it was common knowledge that the Knights of Columbus lobbied to have it added to the pledge in the 1950's, and knew that they helped to get it kept in the pledge a couple years back. I'm also curious as to how prevalent the recitation of the pledge is, particularly in schools (I don't recall ever hearing it recited anywhere else) - in my personal experience the national anthem (no mentions of God) was played before morning announcements at my high school (though we did recite the pledge in elementary school - whether that was a change in the times, or just a change per the level of socialization as we progress through the grades, I don't know)

"Under God" is an inter-faith non-denominational phrase. To say "Under Christ" or "Under Allah" would be an entirely different addition to the pledge. To me, it kind of undermines the claim that the Knights of Columbus or any other club have nefarious New World Order ambitions (per tons of other ATS threads.)

No opinions really, as far as adding "under god" the Knights of Columbus are of interest, but as far as keeping it in the pledge, there would have been some group lobbying for it if not them I'd imagine.

I really don't see how it can be offensive, it has nothing to do with the separation of Church and State because "God" as a word in itself has no affiliation with a particular Church.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 06:18 PM
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Its impossible to force your opinions on somebody, or else you'd already agree with it 100% and not be arguing with it in the first place.

If you guys are so concerned with the whole "Oh No Christianity Is Grabbing Me By The Throat And Forcing Me To Say Two Unmandatory Words!" debate, why dont you argue about something more important... say, the Easter and Christmas holidays.

Why dont the same people who are against the "Under God" thing, also go against Christmas and Easter Vacation? These two holidays celebrate deeply Christian beleifs (Christ's birthday and Christ's ressurrection). How come people dont demand to go to work or attend school on Christmas and Easter? How come you dont see people rallying against the government to STOP paid vacation during Christmas and Easter?



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 06:18 PM
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yeah, I agree with you "God" is universal, and not associated with any one religion. Athiests are up in arms over "God" being in the pledge of allegiance, and feel it shouldn't be there. Athiests are a minority though, most people believe in some sort of higher power or supreme being.

I'm proud of the fact that my order has something to do with putting this in the pledge of allegiance. That's totally awesome in my opinion. I remeber someone getting angry with me saying it was those d**n K of C that put UNDER GOD in there in the first place. He had a total hatred of the order because of that fact.

Athiesm is taking a back seat, as people open up to the spiritual, whether it be new age or what, people are starting to realize there is something out there higher than human beings, and that there is a Creator.



posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by AlphaHumana
I really don't see how it can be offensive, it has nothing to do with the separation of Church and State because "God" as a word in itself has no affiliation with a particular Church.


But God does have an affiliation with Church and religion. Maybe the church is called a synagogue or mosque, but it's still Church.


Originally posted by chief_counsellor
Athiesm is taking a back seat, as people open up to the spiritual, whether it be new age or what, people are starting to realize there is something out there higher than human beings, and that there is a Creator.


Keep telling yourself that.
Part of the design of the Constitution is to resist tyranny of the majority. So even if Atheists are in a minority, that's irrelevant to whether Church and State should be allowed to be joined in any way. It's against the Constitution.

Not that I think this is important enough to do anything about NOW, there are much more important issues to be dealing with, but I think "under God" should be taken back out and the Pledge should be restored to it's original form. I don't think "In God we Trust" should be on any money. I think religion should be allowed, but not taught in school. And I think Christmas and Easter school breaks should be Winter and Spring breaks. And I think anyone who wishes should call it a "Holiday Tree".



posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by Edn
Your not going to get away from the fact that as long as the magority of people that are in power are Christians then they are going to force there beliefs on you just as any other religion I would imagine. That is the one main problem with politics most of them are blinded by there religion.

Personaly I belive that that sort of stuff should be completely removed, it may have been apropriate a couple of hundred years ago when almost all Americans were Christian but its definetly not apropriate today.


I disagree. I find no problem with "Under God" at all. If it said "Under Jesus", or "Under Allah" Or any other select religous icons, I would have a real problem with it. It doesn't though. It says "Under God". The vast majority of the worlds population believes in a God. We may pray to a different God, but our chosen God nonetheless. That IMHO makes the statement "Under God" relevant. Of course Atheists, and Agnostics might take offense to it, but sorry folks the VAST majority do believe. Just be thankful you have the freedom to voice your opinion regarding your lack of faith without prejudice.

Whenever I do recite it, I will always use the term "Under God".
Just my 2 cents.


Edn

posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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Well mabye it should be changed to "under God(s) or no God(s)" there are plenty of religons who do not belive in god there is also a lot more religons who belive in more then one god.

As for Easter and christmas holiday I dont see much of a problem in this because I take my religious holidays regardless if there a public holiday or not and I will work during christmas and Easter if need be.



posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 07:26 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by AlphaHumana
I really don't see how it can be offensive, it has nothing to do with the separation of Church and State because "God" as a word in itself has no affiliation with a particular Church.


But God does have an affiliation with Church and religion. Maybe the church is called a synagogue or mosque, but it's still Church.



That may be true, but doesn't necessarily have to be true. One can surely have a notion of God in the way of an over-being or supreme-being that is detached from any religion. I guess I just can't relate to atheists - I mean, if there's no God what's the point in anything? That's how I see it. It makes it difficult for me personally to imagine someone legitimately taking offense and not just trying to get attention or ruffle feathers. The "Under God" has phrase has different meanings to different people.



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by AlphaHumana
I mean, if there's no God what's the point in anything? That's how I see it.


I understand that's how you see it. But it's not how I and many others see it. Just because you don't understand a point of view doesn't mean it's not valid or important.



The "Under God" has phrase has different meanings to different people.


And no meaning or negative meaning to others.

For someone who doesn't believe in God, saying that the nation stands together under God is a lie. (I'm not saying I do or don't believe in God, I just have the ability to understand and accept other people's viewpoints) For some, misquoting the pledge in this way is the same as saying "One nation, under Cheese". It actually takes away from the pledge to the nation as it was originally written.

I'm not offended. I actually don't care that much, as I don't recite the pledge, but I do think a separation of Church and State should be REinstated. As it is now, they're so mixed together people don't even recognize it anymore.



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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It wouldn't be right to discuss this with out knowing the back ground and details of the matter and subject. So with just a few sources I high lighted a quick guide to this topic.



His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?
The Pledge of Allegiance: A Short History

Federal lawsuit under way to remove the words 'under God' from the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
Restore our Pledge of Allegiance

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
The Pledge of Allegiance


Hope it was of use.



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Thank you, ADVISOR. It was very helpful.


From A Short History:


Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'


And so it is that the church continues to worm its way into the state... :shk:

I am also against adding "equality" into the pledge. Leave it as it was written. Equality is covered in the Constitution. And the words "FOR ALL" at the end of the pledge imply equality.



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 09:14 AM
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How about this for a solution?

When you say the Pledge of allegiance,

If you say "under God", that means you're a believer

If you say "under god", that means you're a non-believer.

That should satisfy both sides, no?
Everybody goes home happy.



posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 10:11 PM
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Thanks Advisor, I had the perception that the pledge was fading out of existence - I had no idea entire books have been written on it!

Just my opinion, but the concept of a God and the concept of abortion (pro and against) do not have to be associated with religions. But none of us are going to change eachothers' mind, and it's good we are discussing instead of arguing.

Just curious, since all of us have pretty much hijacked to heck the OP's post concerning the Knights of Columbus involvement - is the pledge of allegiance used anywhere other than in elementary schools or (I assume) naturalization classes? I only fairly recently became aware of the presence of a nation-shrine or something of the like (I forget what they are called but "shrine" was part of it) that can be found in public schools. I had never even heard of the idea, but somehow it came up in conversation with a friend "didn't you have a ... at your school growing up?" and I had no idea what he was talking about.



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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under current legilation, all public schools that wish to recieve federal funding must
recite the pledge of allegience at least once a week


however, the students are free to do as they wish. if they are punished for not reciting the pledge, then they ACLU has a guranteed win in a lawsuit.

i've always been opposed to the recitation of the pledge on the grounds of violation of the first ammendment, but also because i'm opposed to extreme nationalism



posted on Sep, 9 2006 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Maybe the church is called a synagogue or mosque, but it's still Church.


To be correct, the "church" is not a building or structure but the body of people who are of the faith, a spiritual contruct not physical.

God or gods, what does it matter, the seperation of religion and state is meant to be that the religious leaders are not manipulateing or con trolling the country policies, not that the government establishment can't have certain wordage.

Back in the day religion was a uniting factor, today too many people with the wrong impression are making it the division...

Open interpetation should be individual, each and every one of us are free to interpet for our selves. Trying to force interpretation on others has done nothing but cause and perpetuate war. Look at the middle east for the biblical example.


Base decisions on your own, not on what others want you to be manipulated to think. Free will is yours, make the most of it.



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 03:44 PM
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This is from an article in the Columbia, the Knights of Columbus official magazine for members. (September 2006 issue)


Brief Filed to Retain 'Under God' in Pledge of Allegiance

The Knights of Columbus and six individual Knights and their families have asked the 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals to reverse a decision by a federal court in Sacramento declaring the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional becuase it contains the words "under God"."

In a brief filed on behalf of the Knights by The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, a Washington, D.C. public interest law firm, the court is aksed to recognize that, "The concept of a nation 'under God' encapsulates the idea, longstanding in the Anglo-American legal tradition, that the power of government is limited by universal, inalienable rights."

The Knights of Colulmbus led the successful campaign to add the words "under God" to the pledge in 1954.


Just thought I'd share this with everyone.

SK John



[edit on 14-9-2006 by chief_counsellor]



posted on Oct, 1 2006 @ 04:23 PM
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what is it with regressives?

if we keep this crap in the pledge, why don't we just go back to the ol' nazi style salute we used to give to the american flag?



posted on Oct, 1 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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they are just words, and like most words spoken by people, no one really thinks about what they mean....

one nation, under God, indivisable...why are we making our children lie??
the nation is almost divided as it ever has been, many of those God fearing americans can't remember the last time they were in a church even.....
God has been replaced with the quest of wealth, the quest of power, football games, or whatever! so, is our nation under a football game, or maybe your quest of power...one thing is for sure, we're sitting and debating a bunch of stupid words while our nation goes deeper and deeper into the stinking ditch....our nation isn't above much in our hearts...



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