John Lear. Genuine?

Originally posted by Access Denied
In case you missed it, the staff of ATS has made it clear they've "relaxed" the rules of the T&C the rest of the ATS membership is expected to abide by. Why? Because if they didn’t “johnlear” would have been thrown out of here a long time ago.

Even if that's true (and I don't see where any material rules have been significantly relaxed), I still don't have a problem with it. He's a celeb. He's been on the inside. He has had an opportunity to glean info first hand that I'll never have. This affords us the opportunity to interact with someone who has not only been uniquely positioned, but is willing to have a dialogue.

If you actually see no value in that...

Originally posted by Access Denied
The point is what’s the point? What “information” can possibly learned from this that’s of any value under these kind of conditions? I mean seriously?

I'd stated on another post that since we really don't have a UFO to study, the "study" of UFOs is really about the people. Now here's one dropped in your lap. And you seem to advocate running him off? Seriously? I think there's jackloads of information to be obtained. It may not be the information you're looking for. Maybe we need to expand the system. In my opinion, this isn't a "little grey/green man hunt". I was over that a long time ago. This goes much deeper than that. Or maybe shallower, depending upon your perspective.

My last point- unless or until Mr. Lear becomes threatening or abusive or deliberately spins a yarn he knows to be false and presents it as fact, let him post away and ignore him if it bothers you. Some of us are interested.

Originally posted by dAlen
I think perhaps some of us are still missing the point.

It has been stated that if John Lear was a "nobody" that his words would amount to nothing more than a "tall tale" and would have had him banned due to the apparent lack of proof to substantiate his story. Basically its implied that he is given special status.

I would say on the surface it may appear that way, until you actually take time to read thoroughly what has been posted by John.

The main thing that differentiates his postings, is the very fact that he is not relying on some "bogus" documentation/proof, but insist that this is just his belief...as he sees and understands things now.

Posting your opinion wont get you banned from ATS, but purposefully lieing/deceiving will.
As of now John has been responding to questions posted to him by readers about what he believes, not trying to sell a tale to get a following.

This appears to be the main difference...that more people, perhaps, are asking him questions then they would other ATS members. This in itself could help the perception of him having special treatment.

I for one, am amazed of how many postings have fallen under this topic, as its hard to debate ones "authenticity" when its clearly stated that he has only shared his personal beliefs.
So the fact that so many opinions have been shared on this topic alone, shows that noone is receiving special treatment, and all are welcome to share their opinion.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Dalen

edit: Instead debating his authenticity (he believes what he believes) you can debate the content of what is said. (difference as both parties share opinions, allowing/respecting the others right to the opinion, and perhaps explore possibilities in debunking the idea or proving it...if possible.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by dAlen]

Maybe its you who is missing the point dAlen, they arent his beliefs as you put it. He didnt just wake up one day with those thoughts in his head, and come to those conclusions by himself, somebody told him. Somebody so high up told him that he "knows" its true. That is why he is here isnt it? So why can't we ask, no demand proof from him? just because he says time and time again that he can't with have to
accept it? No way.

He could have went anywhere to tell us this, but he didnt, he came on a conspiracy
website, particually the ufo forum where he knew he would get lauded, because frankly its what we want to hear. He knew full well that if he went anywhere else(namely a normal chat room) he would be laughed at and ridiculed because he couldnt prove it. And if you don't feel that he has to, fine. But i do.

And as for not being treated like a celebrity, your joking right? Just because he claimed to have flew in special missions for the CIA, which you or i could never
know for sure that he did, we automatically have to accept what he says without
judging why he has told us and why he offers little or no explanations as to where
he got this information from?

It woudn't and it hasn't happened to ANY other member on ATS to get THAT privillage.

Access Denied, leave the smart-ass remarks at the door.

John Lear has stated he has no providable evidence to backup the information he provides.

The same can be said about the The Roswell Incident, but some people like to listen out of intrigue.

To be blunt, if you think he is full of crap, stay away.

Originally posted by SimonGray
Access Denied, leave the smart-ass remarks at the door.

John Lear has stated he has no providable evidence to backup the information he provides.

The same can be said about the The Roswell Incident, but some people like to listen out of intrigue.

To be blunt, if you think he is full of crap, stay away.

So thats that then eh?

The roswell incident has testimonies, people who have come forward with evidence not to mention the tons of books, information and dvds which have been written by hundreds of people. Whether its true or not is irrelevant because at least we have some evidence to sift through and come to an assumption, but you cant with anything john says.

Its just one person saying these things simon, and i can't just ignore what he says
without questioning it. Lets face it, its not just one incident he mentions but dozens
of them. Don't you want to know the ins and outs of how he found out these things?
Dont you think its fair that i do? Is saying mr x told me enough? Surely not.

This site is brilliant for booting out the bs that inflicts it regarding far off stories.
It seems thats not the case for john lear. I wonder why thats so?

Dang! Why are ya'll still wasting space busting on Lear?

Let me give you a little insight on a few things.

1. Some of you are just going to have to learn to accept the fact that you are not old enough, wise enough, mature enough, or evolved enough yet to know the secrets of the universe.

Let me use an analogy.

Suppose that after you read one of my threads you start to suspect that I'm smoking rope, or whatever. Pretty soon you want to know more, and more information in order to determine if I am or not. I'm not going to tell you if I am or not. I also would not tell you who my source was. Where my source was. How much (if any) I had, or how I used it. Now, stay with me here........

Suppose I now proceed to tell you all of the things my contacts know about smoking rope. Where it is from. How it gets here. Who delivers it and so forth.

You may choose to believe that information or not. It is up to you at that point.
That is called hearsay it is not evidence.

Get the picture yet? If not then......

2. What if I were to tell you that I had met John. More than once. In what he calls the "soul collector". He has no clue as to my identity here. I had no clue of who he was until I randomly stumbled upon his picture here.

Would you believe that? ( Don't forget that now you have two people confirming the existence of the "soul collector". )

What if I told you that we prefer not to discuss the experience in detail with those that have not shared the experience.

Do combat veterans tell you all of the stuff they did and saw in a war?

They tell you what they want you to know.

3. Special treatment? Well guess what? It happens. It exists. It always has and always will in a lot of cases.

If your last name happens to be Goering, and you flew several thousand hours of confidential missions for the U.S government, then I'm sure we can arrange for you to get special treatment here as well.

When you have walked with giants, and flown around the world at high speed for 40 years or so, then let us know and we will make special arrangements for you as well.

Do I want you to tell me all about it?.......... Yep, you betcha.

Do I expect you to?................... Nope.

4. Life is not fair. Get over it.

If Rumsfeld can lie to you everyday with a straight face and get away with it then don't get upset if John Lear does it (or not) to you in here.

Some people will tell you things for reasons that you do not need to know about.

It happens all of the time. Being on the bottom, out of the loop, sucks. Get used to it. Maybe in 20 or 30 years you will be the one with all of the answers to the burning questions of the day.

I don't speak for John Lear nor against him. He is what he is. There are things I could tell you that may make John seem perfectly reasonable by comparison.

I in no way am comparing myself to John or his career. All I am stating is that there are things out there that I don't understand and If I try to explain them to you, then you might not understand.

We all want to know or to believe in something greater. We all wish to obtain knowledge and enlightenment.

If you are placing all of your hopes for such things in this board, and upon the veracity of the words of John Lear, then............No..........You are not ready.

Get with it. Get behind it. Get around it, or mainly just get over it. There are no shortcuts to the answers for the questions some of you folks are asking.

It is what it is. If you can't accept that then start your own board and run it as you see fit.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by RecDude]

i think AccessDenied is correct for his postings here it clearly shows how there is a lil rule bending for the man!! I dont care either way, but mods shouldnt get pissed for someone pointing something out...Later fellow ATSers

Admin edit Removed the massive quote from Access Denied as it wasn't necessary.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by SimonGray]

Originally posted by thesneakiod
So thats that then eh?

The roswell incident has testimonies, people who have come forward with evidence not to mention the tons of books, information and dvds which have been written by hundreds of people. Whether its true or not is irrelevant because at least we have some evidence to sift through and come to an assumption, but you cant with anything john says.

Looking back at my post, I was too unclear.

What I meant was despite all the "information" and all the testimonials, it is still completely uncemented that an alien craft landed in New Mexico back in 1947.

And to be honest, have you read many of the books on the subject, they are all regurgitations of the others with some added crapola... stick to Stanton Friedman's works on the subject.

The DVDs and TV shows all follow suit as well, video reproductions of stuff everyone already has already read about.

That's a funny thing with UFOs and aliens as a non-fiction field of study, it is often assumed that because so many people have attempted to put their "expertise" out there and flooded the "Other" shelf of the local bookstore with yet another book about alien encounters in New Mexico, this is further substantiating that an alien craft touched down... when this shouldn't be presumed.

What I was trying to say is that there is no absolutely clear-cut information on the subject to prove it being a real extra-terrestrial encounter as opposed to a botched military cover-up of their own platform testing.

Even the evidence provided doesn't make me think anything other-worldly touched down.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
Its just one person saying these things simon, and i can't just ignore what he says
without questioning it. Lets face it, its not just one incident he mentions but dozens
of them. Don't you want to know the ins and outs of how he found out these things?
Dont you think its fair that i do? Is saying mr x told me enough? Surely not.

Let's get something straight, I am absolutely on your side 100%. I'm the guy that has to lay his head under the guillotine and reiterate ATS rules. It has to be done to keep things running smoothly, and I know its going to cause disagreements.

Conspiracy theories, and those people who say they are "in the know", should be questioned. Absolutely. But I think there comes a point with certain figures when people realise "this is rubbish", say their ideas/put down their reasons for objecting and should just leave with their back to it.

If Mr Lear can't provide evidence for his fanatical claims, do you have to believe him? Definitely not. But it can make for interesting discussion. If it just makes you want to pull your hair out, then do what I do, walk away and go to a more fathomable thread.

We do have wild threads appear, and by wild I mean the "I'm a reptilian who was the secret second in command to the Queen of England, ask me anything".... do you see them? Hopefully not, because we remove these trolling attempts to cause mayhem among the board. But again, it's a balance issue, we have to decide as a group what is pure nonsense intended to cause anger and insult, and what should stay as a global interest to ATS members and guests.

John Lear does have a following, he is known amongst the UFO website community as laying bold claims and visitors come here looking for answers (and often raising even more questions ). Because of this, we let the threads stay here. Like this one, new visitors looking for others views on John Lear are getting new insight.

Originally posted by thesneakiod
This site is brilliant for booting out the bs that inflicts it regarding far off stories.
It seems thats not the case for john lear. I wonder why thats so?

No definitely not. I personally find My Lear's theories far too far-fetched to believe. I personally think the stories about Dulce, human/alien alliances, and manned bases on the moon and Mars are rediculous.

So the big question, why does ATS allow it? Simple, we are the biggest discussion forums website of this nutty subject area, so we have to allow people the availability to discuss even the far-fetched theories.

We are not stretching the rules for Mr Lear, we are simply asking people to calm it down when directing their questions at him, because he has said numerous times, he can't prove his theories. Just as we discourage members from flaming and attacking other members, we are asking members to refrain from over-the-top bombardments to the member "JohnLear".

Perhaps you disagree with me, that is human nature. I'm just trying to help you understand the ways of ATS. Feel free to ask me more, that's what I'm here for.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by SimonGray]

This thread is in JL's best interest. He is making some 'out-there' statements and people are only expressing what i expect the majority of readers must already be thinking. Repressing that doesn't help anyone. This way at least JL gets the right of reply & if he takes these ideas beyond this BB then he will have all his comebacks down pat

RecDude get real. Not for one second do i hope to get the truth from this or any website regarding the facts about ufos, To you its ok not to share your information because YOU
dont think we're ready? Who are you to say that? Do you know me? No. Do you know what my mental capabillities are to process the truth? No.

Its so obvious people like you believe him because he "reckons" he flew in secret missions for the CIA, that must excite you. So thats your outlook and thats fine.

Don't however, try to come across as if you know anymore than us on john lear besides
what we've read on him. Sure he doesn't have to give us anything, but he came here
willing to tell us these things he wasnt forced, obviously his life isnt in danger considering what he has all ready told us. So why can't he tell us all of it.

Thank you very much for clearing that up Simon....I definitley think you have a good way of expressing words....u answered my statement!

Originally posted by Access Denied

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Um, he's not posting information he knows to be false, he's posting information he believes to be true. And for what it's worth, a lot of it adds up for me too. Read around the subjects he brings up, and yes there is merit in his beliefs.

Totally different to the fly-by-nighters that say "I am in contact with a grey, here are my MSN conversations.. enjoy". They are so obviously spinning bs and deserve a banning right off the bat and do nothing for ATS except provide a little light humour. John is posting material he believes to be true. He can't give you the proof, but he has a wealth of experiences to share with us all and I am more than happy to give JL the benefit of the doubt.



[edit on 26-8-2006 by RiotComing]

Back from the mine. Got my son-law-law to sand and varnish the handrails to the assay lab. Also got him to lift the old kiln outside (it weighed a ton!). Also got him to clean and sweep the table house. Also got him to lift the old concrete chimney out of the lab. Also got him to start getting the old grease and oil of off the engine in the backhoe as he has to replace a front oil seal on the crankshaft next week and I want to be sure thats where the leak is coming from. I fixed the propane refrigerator which had stopped working.

Meanwhile back at John Lear. Genuine? I noted a couple of posts wondering whether if I had ever really flown for the CIA. I looked around my den for one photo or one scrap of paper or one document of proof and found nothing. Nada.

There is a nice picture of me and Gen. Vang Pao but heck I could have just gone to a party and had my picture taken with him.

I have and old faded newspaper clipping from the Saudi Gazette dated October 26, 1977 about a "Mystery' Boeing 707 flying arms to Somalia but it doesn't say who the captain was. And theres nice picture of a group of guys standing in downtown Buda titled 'Mystery Crew'. (Theres a young handsome guy wearing a gray suede coat in the middle). But theres nothing to tie the picture with the newspaper article. Or anything to tie anything to the CIA.

I noticed a guy on another thread asked me for the website I got my 'beautiful Saturn' info from. Didn't even see the turnip truck go by. But wished him a speedy recovery.

No, its just the same darn stuff night and night after day after day...no proof. Not a shred, not an inkling, not a smattering.

Originally posted by johnlear
Back from the mine. Got my son-law-law to sand and varnish the handrails to the assay lab. Also got him to lift the old kiln outside (it weighed a ton!). Also got him to clean and sweep the table house. Also got him to lift the old concrete chimney out of the lab. Also got him to start getting the old grease and oil of off the engine in the backhoe as he has to replace a front oil seal on the crankshaft next week and I want to be sure thats where the leak is coming from. I fixed the propane refrigerator which had stopped working.

Thanks John I needed a laugh Actually I'm laughing at the whole post but imagining your Son-in-laws reaction when he sees you coming up the road nearly had me rolling on the floor. I've helped re-open an old mine in my youth where I was the designated slave labor for the "ahem" older, wiser owner.

Yes moderator - I know - off topic.

I believe John Lear is genuine in his convictions. Although some of his beliefs might be crazy, I dont think he himself is a crank. Basically, he has gotten his information from sources close to or inside the government, and he has his own personal reasons and convictions for believing them.

I do believe that much of what he has been told by government insiders is basically disinformation and BS mixed in with pieces of truth, to make the truth all the harder to sort out. I also think he was fed alot of BS, so that if he ever talked about it, he would be called a crackpot and be ridiculed. Its part of how they do damage control with certain disclosures.

However, John is very sincere in his beliefs, and he will be the first to say they are his own opinions, based on things he has seen, been told about, and experienced. He does not try and convert people to his line of thinking. He aint trying to sell anything to anyone, and he does take alot of uncessesary flak from alot of people.

Despite some of his more wilder theories, he is definitely a good source of information, as he has known personally some of the most controversial and enigmatic figures in Ufology, such as Bob lazar, Paul Bennewitz, and some of the most highly respected people, such as George Knapp and Linda Howe. And he was in various positions during his career to actually see and learn things.

So yeah, I think hes the real deal.

Until another source confirms some of the things said there is nothing that we can prove to be false or true

So it puts us back to where we began. We dont know what is true. We know the truth is in there somewhere but we have no bookmark to tell us where to start looking

As far as I am concerned, in this life you either know something or you dont.