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Inquisitions past and present, seldom concern themselves with the truth, only the status quo.

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posted on Aug, 26 2006 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by sleeper

Originally posted by dgoodpasture
Your money inquery is far from truth. Money was derived from man's lack of God. In his trek for power he lost himself in the lust of a new commodity.



80 percent of the world lives in some kind of poverty; they don’t have much if any money to make their lives miserable. Some of them are kept alive with food and clean drinking water paid for with donation of money from people in countries that have lots of money.


If money was the true culprit there would be 4.5 billion people living ideal lives because they have no money to corrupt them---yet they live worst than animals in Third World Countries.


It IS money that is the culprit. For if the world were not run off of money these people would not be suffering. They suffer because they lack money. Money is the steering wheel of this planet. If you are lacking a steering wheel you can't drive so well. A good mechanic changes the steering wheel.
If it weren't for money we wouldn't know poverty. Why do you make a comparison to animals? What do you think you are? If there was no money, was world unity, and a one world government based on peace and the recognition of honest self sufficiency as a result of following the universal laws given to us by the God force initiator of our existence, then we would be worthy of joining any nation in heaven. Unfortunately we worship money over love.

[edit on 26-8-2006 by dgoodpasture]




posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 01:46 AM
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Ah, The Root Of All Evil makes an appearance. I will offer the following link to those who assert that money has rightfully earned itself such a catchy title.

Have you ever asked what is the root of money?



[edit on 29-8-2006 by Brittany]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 04:01 AM
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The root of money is evil. The root of evil is money. Evil is the lack of God.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by Brittany
Ah, The Root Of All Evil makes an appearance. I will offer the following link to those who assert that money has rightfully earned itself such a catchy title.

Have you ever asked what is the root of money?



[edit on 29-8-2006 by Brittany]




Excellent link Brittany,

Money is the scapegoat for the evil in man's soul.


To accuse money of being evil is like blaming a musical instrument for bad music



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 11:26 AM
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Where did the money come from bright mind? Man's evil. You are creating the scapegoat in your head. Be responsible human.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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Sunday Sunday Sunday! World Theosophy League presents:

DGOODPASTURE Vs SLEEPER

Witness the battle of the alien economic theories as they ROCK THE HOUSE!

Money: Is it an alien technology compensating for our lack of shared consciousness, or a means power hording from Satan?

Bring the kids. Bring the koolaid. This SUNDAY at the ATS arena!!!!!
YOU WILL BE SERVED.

---------------

Seriously, I'd like to know more about your first hand accounts of this knowledge. Sleeper, I know you claim to have had contacts with aliens to inform you about this stuff. DGoodPasture, have you?

Would you two be willing to give first hand accounts of your experiences with aliens from which knowledge of money was derived? I'd be willing to listen.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 01:41 PM
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(Selfishness + Fear) x Manipulation = 'Evil'.

I submit that Man, left to his own devices, is 'evil'. 'Good' is only achieved through an effort to overcome his most natural of tendencies, as they are depicted in the equation above.

I present the supposition that 'good' never spontaneously happens; it is, in fact, free will in exercise - a by-product of the intellect put to use by the ego/soul/self. Free will is simply a choice to overcome natural tendencies.

The self/soul/ego can and does attempt to remain blameless in the ethical arena, utilizing intellect to justify it's beliefs through religion/philosophy. However, one must recognize that the ego/self/soul is governed primarily by the three items, selfishness, fear, and manipulation - the basis for what makes up every human being.

Money appeals to all three of these base factors of the 'evil'/human equation, and can easily misconstrue money as the basis for evil, but clearly without these factors, money is worthless and inert.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 03:12 PM
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I tend to agree with you, Tin. I think all of you have made good points.

I would just like to hear how extraterrestrial input has modified the thinking of sleeper and pasture. Sleeper is a contactee by his own statement. I wonder if pasture is. In that case, they both have received supposed wisdom from their contacts. I would like to know how these contact discussed economics, what was discussed, and how it unfolded. This would be most insightful and would help me understand the otherwordliness of the arguments.

For example, sleeper said that the technology of money (and I assume the technology of the coin) was a gift from the aliens.

Pasture disagrees in its 'giftiness'.

What leads them to these statements through encounters with the paranormal?



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial

For example, sleeper said that the technology of money (and I assume the technology of the coin) was a gift from the aliens.

Pasture disagrees in its 'giftiness'.

What leads them to these statements through encounters with the paranormal?



As I stated I get my info from the horse’s mouth or the as-s for the skeptics.

You called money technology which is the best description there is for it. It’s no less necessary than telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 04:22 PM
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Posted by Sleeper

You called money technology which is the best description there is for it. It’s no less necessary than telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper.



What does that mean?

Trading which involved tolkens was a way of life for at least 40,000 years well before anyone used money ( Paper or coinage - Modern Tolkens ) to pay for "telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper."








[edit on 29-8-2006 by lost_shaman]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Thanks for the response, sleeper. I appreciate the clarification. Could you give us more detail about what the horse mouths siad to you,how they said it, the nature of the interaction, etc.?

Pasture, how about you? I saw in another thread that you channeled some aliens. What was the nature of your communication about money and/or economics?



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 05:05 PM
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What leads them to these statements through encounters with the paranormal?


Actually, I see no reason why money, religion and society couldn't have been extra terrestrial inventions. Humans may group together, but usually for truly selfish, fearful and manipulative reasons. (fear of being alone and vulnerable, fear of independence, need to prove themselves to others, need to live off the work of others, desire to control others, etc. et al ...) It seems guidelines such as religion and, closely following, society either came from a truly selfless/ethical human (unlikely), A genius human who understood control (Possible, but why not simply continue using the 'big stick' theory of control?) or it came from another intelligent source (God/ET/whatever).

Money is an abstraction of ownership and the means of exchanging possessions, i.e. This coin/bead/rice grain is the same as a fraction of the value of that cow over there ... This strikes me as an odd concept, and always has. Abstract thought is something that has been in use ever since religion had been established. If religion is a gift from the god(s)/ETs, then why not economics?

Sleeper has stated on numerous occasions that the extra terrestrials could very well be humans from other planets. That would not disrupt my assessment of man at all.

Neither would any assumption that they are helping us, a clearly 'good' act requiring effort. If they are thousands of times more advanced than we, it is theoretically possible they can easily overcome the fleshly nature they originated from, in essence: They have evolved their consciousnesses, or in my diagram - self/soul/egos - beyond the pull of selfishness and fear.

As for evolving beyond manipulative tendencies, I see no evidence of that in Sleeper's ETs. Perhaps old habits are hard to break? Or rather, manipulation without selfishness or fear as a motive might not equate evil. I'll be the first to admit I have difficulty in wrapping my head around that concept, but I'll not exclude it from a possibility.

As an unwilling contactee myself, I sympathize greatly with Sleepers story and have found some of it to have a familiar tone. I don't remember much, and I do not claim to have any message from them whatsoever. His assessment of the biological machine/greys seems accurate enough, as does his claims of multiple forms of beings, but the only humans I saw were being led by BMs/Greys down a hallway of sorts, just beyond a door.

Clearly, fear is used as a tool in most abduction scenarios, but there seems to be a purpose for that. One could assume it might be to learn from and overcome. One could just as easily assume they are cruel in their understanding/misunderstanding of us.

Who can understand the motives of a truly alien mind? What would be a frame of reference for understanding? What success could we ever have, not understanding each other as isolated as our own very existences are from one another? The ego/self/soul is trapped in a bone box wrapped in meat unable to experience anything beyond it's own perception.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by lost_shaman

Posted by Sleeper

You called money technology which is the best description there is for it. It’s no less necessary than telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper.



What does that mean?

Trading which involved tolkens was a way of life for at least 40,000 years well before anyone used money ( Paper or coinage - Modern Tolkens ) to pay for "telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper."
[edit on 29-8-2006 by lost_shaman]


That is correct. Didn't the Romans first use it ? Either way it we used for trade.

Now we will be scrapping the money and using a device or one card. No more stashing away cash you don't want to claim in taxes. Then can just come along and take your money and what can you do ? Everyhting we buy, our shopping habits are monitored.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Ectoterrestrial
Thanks for the response, sleeper. I appreciate the clarification. Could you give us more detail about what the horse mouths siad to you,how they said it, the nature of the interaction, etc.?



Like I said in my other thread they have kept in touch with me for over fifty years.

They communicate with me in physical form---in person, and telepathically. Telepathically I ask them questions and sometimes they respond immediately or over time.

I don't meditate or go into a trance.

They chose the mode of communication, sometimes they drop in literally, a vortex opens in the wall and they enter. I have also met them individually while they are in human costume, we go to a restaurant and talk like two humans and they tell me things that I should do or ask me questions. Other times they take me into a ship and we go to any number of places in the solar system. I have also left my body in the ship and exited the solar system, but I don't know where in the galaxy we traveled to.

Now why would anyone buy that? Yet that’s the way it goes down.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 09:04 PM
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[edit on 29-8-2006 by sleeper]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by lost_shaman

Posted by Sleeper

You called money technology which is the best description there is for it. It’s no less necessary than telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper.



What does that mean?

Trading which involved tolkens was a way of life for at least 40,000 years well before anyone used money ( Paper or coinage - Modern Tolkens ) to pay for "telephones, electricity, clean water and toilet paper."



Trading a hog for chickens is a basic form of currency or money if you will. Any tradable resource or commodity is money, yet the word money has inherited a bad connotation.

I assume you are making the point that money was being used 40,000 years ago so ET hand nothing to do with it?

ET was here teaching humans whenever humans were here to be thought---even millions of years ago.

Human type people as what we are familiar with now are not the only intelligent life forms that where run through this planet, there were others. We are only the latest somewhat intelligent species to inhabit earth.

ETs will be the last to leave earth when it is all said and done---they where the beginning and they will be the end----many millions of years in the future.

Kind of sounds biblical---



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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All E.T. told me was how to become one with the universe. All I speak is of God. The infinite creator and the infinite creation. Money is not needed. We now pay for the very land that is freely ours. We contaminate our bodies with rotted and poisonous food. Veganism is the future of human beings. The laws of this universe are the the laws of God. We are the universe and the laws apply to us. Study your physics and mathematics for further insite. Recognize action and reaction. Newton and Einstein were brilliant men, so were the likes of them. God wants us to know him through his creation. Let it be known.

Peace and love,
David.

P.s. if you desire a more informative approach you can view some of my posts in the religion conspiracy section of ATS... and also my homepage. www.myspace.com... Change the World.
Bring the truth.
Money is not needed. We are self sufficient beings. We can grow all of our own crops and treat all of our own water. Awaken. The animals are not to be eaten unless you wish to bloody your own hands.

[edit on 29-8-2006 by dgoodpasture]



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by TinFoilDerby

As for evolving beyond manipulative tendencies, I see no evidence of that in Sleeper's ETs. Perhaps old habits are hard to break? Or rather, manipulation without selfishness or fear as a motive might not equate evil. I'll be the first to admit I have difficulty in wrapping my head around that concept, but I'll not exclude it from a possibility.



Manipulation can also be another word for reverse psychology, we humans do it all the time while raising our children, we do it for their ultimate benefit.

From reading your posts you seem to have a good handle on reality TinfoilDerby.

Thanks for you post.



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by sleeper
Trading a hog for chickens is a basic form of currency or money if you will. Any tradable resource or commodity is money, yet the word money has inherited a bad connotation.

I assume you are making the point that money was being used 40,000 years ago so ET hand nothing to do with it?

ET was here teaching humans whenever humans were here to be thought---even millions of years ago.


I don't think humans were so stupid as to not figure out the act of trading ! It would have started when one person wished to have something another had, and offered something in return.
It developed from that.
Look at children, they figure this out at a very early age, no training necassary (sp?). You catch them having traded a toy for another toy from a friend They become teenagers and trade clothes .... ok only girls do this !

Some people "swap" wives or husbands, and that is called "swinging", and that's a whole other topic. But the point is trading is human nature. You cook dinner and I'll wash the dishes. Or call it negotiating, whatever.

So why do they think the idiots down here on earth, have figured out how to trade everything under the sun, but are too much of a chimp to make tokens and make the whole process easier ?

It is just that as time went on, people figured it out that they could give less and get more back in return,. That is were greed came into the picture.

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 31-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Aug, 30 2006 @ 02:36 AM
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Actually, Violet, what you are describing is rather natural, an even swap or Barter system of trade. Because the abstract reasoning behind currency and economics, it seems to be more of a leap of faith than lip service to any invisible, lofty deity concept, for example, simply because it's in the here and now.

If I have three apples for barter/trade I want at the very least three oranges of comparable size and weight. Those coins or rocks are useless to me, as I can't eat them or do anything with them ... It seems as if it would have been extremely difficult to advance this abstract concept on a wide scale without some form of intervention, whether by ETs or powerful kingdoms reaching some sort of agreement, and even then, I must ask why they'd even bother with that, when direct trade/barter seems to be more ... well, direct!

The only reason I can come up with is the centralization of harvests in state warehouses, a sort of ancient socialism to ensure the survival of the kingdom. This, of course, suggests a means of control, which I'm certain was not lost upon early practitioners of economics.

Iron and bronze may have been traded directly for weapon crafting, and coinage simply made it easier to carry around. Later, rare and precious metals would replace the more practical bronze and iron, but for what reason they became precious, I'm not certain.

There's a big difference between a barter system and a system of currency, let alone the ideas of banking and economic foreign policies, which incidentally predates currency, but are they ET inventions? Who's to say, with all certainty?

I am certain of this, however ... there are no new ideas - so why not an alien influence?



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