Stuart Middle School teacher burns U.S. flags in class

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posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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Rasobasi420 : The difference in thought here may be "I" versus "We".
It's the I, I, I, I, or me, me , me, me.
Your post pretty much sums up the I's.

"There's a time and a place for everything" doesn't necessarily mean "extreme"
lengths of time. It also means being able to make a choice to do or not to do
something based on common sense and manners. Knowing if something is
reasonably feasible based on what you have been taught by competent teachers.




posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 05:28 PM
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Ya know, Siege, your response is so typical of someone who has run out of any decent arguments to support their opinion; that of personally insulting the other person in the debate. In debates, that is considered poor taste. You know, without class, etc. Please stick to the topic instead of judging my entire person on all of 2 posts.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 06:27 PM
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SIEGE, you just reminded me of a quote I saw on my google.come homepage the other day.

If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in silencing the one than the one - if he had the power - would be justified in silencing mankind.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)




The consequence is much greater in the end than the cause. Imagine. The first teacher is silenced, because they spoke against the common belief or practice (in this case there was no such extreme, but let's continue.). What of the next teacher? Will they continue with information that challenges or pushes the children? Or will they succumb to the mass pressure that exists in society that oppresses extreme or expressive thought?

If the kid has a mind of their own (which I’m sure everyone is a greed they don’t
)
They will make up their own minds, and understand the situation within its context. Hopefully, if we can do that, we will have another generation who thinks for themselves, rather than relying on their parent’s generation to do it for them.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420

If the kid has a mind of their own (which I’m sure everyone is a greed they don’t
)
They will make up their own minds, and understand the situation within its context. Hopefully, if we can do that, we will have another generation who thinks for themselves, rather than relying on their parent’s generation to do it for them.


Oh honestly, they are 11 and 12 years old for heavens sake. Why can't they just be kids for a few more years? Why should they have to face this crossroads now?

I am really stupified that this teachers actions are defendable at all costs, regardless of whether or not it was at the expense of a bunch of KIDS! Can you remember being 12? Sheesh!



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 06:55 PM
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So, the guy burnt a flag. Wow. So what. Although I suppose he could get in trouble if they were'nt his flags (damage to property and whatnot), if he bought them himself surely he can do what he wants with them.

However, I'd "Pity the fool" who sets fire to this Jackanape's flag!





posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 09:29 AM
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You know folks, I think I'm in over my head here. Thought a couple of times about
stopping, but no, I just had to keep answering another post and then another.
In the beginning, I felt I was venting, for myself and others that may feel the same
way. It was actually kind of fun. But then it became anxious. I am a novice at this
kind of debating and Forestlady has pointed out the irony of one of my most recent
posts. I lacked class by insulting her.
I would like to apologize to her. Got caught up in the moment.
Maybe too, I have run out of arguments as she suggested.

Although I still feel strongly about the "hows and whys" of this particular thread,
I think I should leave it to others who have a better way with words than I.
Thank you for an interesting experience.



posted on Aug, 29 2006 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by SIEGE
You know folks, I think I'm in over my head here. Thought a couple of times about
stopping, but no, I just had to keep answering another post and then another.
In the beginning, I felt I was venting, for myself and others that may feel the same
way. It was actually kind of fun. But then it became anxious. I am a novice at this
kind of debating and Forestlady has pointed out the irony of one of my most recent
posts. I lacked class by insulting her.
I would like to apologize to her. Got caught up in the moment.
Maybe too, I have run out of arguments as she suggested.

Although I still feel strongly about the "hows and whys" of this particular thread,
I think I should leave it to others who have a better way with words than I.
Thank you for an interesting experience.


Siege, my hat is off to you and I used my last vote this month to give you a WATS. It is so rare that someone can actually look at themselves and admit to a mistake. I respect you for doing so. Apology accepted. But please don't feel that you need to take yourself off this particular thread. Good luck to you.



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by SIEGE
You know folks, I think I'm in over my head here.

I felt I was venting, for myself and others that may feel the same
way.

Although I still feel strongly about the "hows and whys" of this particular thread,
I think I should leave it to others who have a better way with words than I.
Thank you for an interesting experience.


SIEGE:

When I was about 11 years old I went to a small country church for Sunday School...

One morning, our Priest went up to the alter, tenderly closed the bible, brought it to his chest, hugged it fiercely, and brought it down to the pews where about 8 of us were in awe that the he brought it down to us...

He let each of us touch it in turn and we thought this was an really awesome thing to do, and we all felt elated that we were lucky to have had this experience...

He then turned, and threw it across the room... It hit the wall with a resounding "thwap." We were all, to be sure, in shock. I saw looks on other kids' faces that I am sure reflected my own feelings.

He turned back to us, with this look of utter calm on his face. He asked us what we thought of this, and I felt like I was just thrown out into the middle of Lake Michigan in the middle of January...

He then explained to me, and the other children there, that what he had thrown was a book, a book that contained very wonderful content, but it was just a book, like my Hardy Boys Mysteries, or my sister's Nancy Drew Mysteries, that it was JUST PAPER. It contains a message to be sure, and it is a wondrous message. But the MESSAGE is the important issue, and not the book. The book in time would not be here, but that message would stand the test of time, and would last through the world being aflame and the book would be reduced to ashes.

I think we have to see that flag as it waves in the breeze as containing a message, a message that for many of us is a beautiful thing, but the important part is the message, and not the "book." The flag can get brittle and waste away in time, but we must NEVER allow that "message" and the freedoms that it represents to EVER waste away.

When we start to whittle away when and where you can exercise those freedoms, and who and when someone can "see" us exercise those rights, the the message has been lost, and we start idolizing the "book" and not the "message," and that is when we start saying the President is right no matter what because we have to support the office, even if we disagree with the man, and government is always right, even if it tramples the rights of men, because the government is always right because it is the government... When this happens we have lost, and this country will be lost. I promise when these things come to pass, I will be headed for Europe and will save a spot for those who make it out...



posted on Sep, 4 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by lakewoodrealtor

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Whatever the context this is inappropriate for school, this is a seventh grade class, there are other ways to show free speech without burning a flag in the middle of the room


My words exactly. This is a awfull hopefully they will burn him


Woa... If this is the value you give to human life then I really don't know what you're OUTSIDE of a high-security prison.


Finally the neocon zealots on ATS are revealing their true face as FASCISTS.



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 04:30 PM
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I have nothing against a good healthy flag burning. Burning a flag is after all the official way of disposing of a used or torn flag. I don't care if anyone burns a flag in protest ... burn a picture of Bush for all I care. Normally flag burning, IMO, is done to elicit a shock effect and garner more media coverage and rarely has anything to do with the protest at hand.

What I do have an issue with is the context of the lesson that was being taught. Burning a flag in a classroom ... are we teaching free speech (is burning something speech?) .. or are we teaching anti-government sentiments? We can't know since we don't know the teacher involved or the exact context of the incident. Why not have a discussion of flag burning and get the differing opinions of the 7th graders ... acting as a moderator of the dicussion but giving little input. Why not show them the value of graffiti as means of free speach?

It is not the place of a teacher or a school to doctrinate our children on political issues one way or the other. It is their place to educate them ... teach them history (at least the US accepted version of history). It is the place of the parents in the home to raise their children under whatever belief system they have and instill in them a value system.




Originally posted by JediMaster
Perhaps burning the flag in the class room would be the problem I would have. Just for the sake of safety because from what I've seen flags can burn fast. If I was the teacher I would've conducted this outside and burned them. It's protected speech.

I don't see how it is inappropiate for 7th graders. They are what thirteen or fourteen years old? Most I would bet have seen some violent movies, and played some biolent video games. And a burning flag is supposed to be inappropiate for them how?



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
We can't know since we don't know the teacher involved or the exact context of the incident. Why not have a discussion of flag burning and get the differing opinions of the 7th graders ... acting as a moderator of the dicussion but giving little input. Why not show them the value of graffiti as means of free speach?


The context involved the teacher burning the flag, then asking the students to write an essay about what they feel. No damage, or political viewpoints made.

As for the graffiti thing, that would require the damaging of private property. The flags he burned were most likely bought by him. If not, I say he should pay the school back the .50 cents he wasted of the school's money.




 
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