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True colours of mars and vegitation

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posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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There are 2 topics here. I guess no doubt they may have been discussed before however this true colour of mars thing has been on my head a few years now so i thought id get some input.

Supposedly (Google will give you hundreds of sites) Nasa are altering the pictures received back from mars to make it unhospitable. Supposedly without Nasa's alterations MArs actually looks very similar to earth take a look:

xfacts.com...

Also there seems to be a lot of pictures claiming that there is vegitation on mars. Now we know that a long time ago water exsisted on the suface of mars. Is it possible that such large trees as these pictured are able to survive with long roots extracting water from deep within mars

www.ufovideo.net...


Again there are lots of sites showing these pictures but most show the same ones




posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Possibly the greatest possible thread on this topic can be found here: EXCLUSIVE: NASA Is Not Altering Mars Colors.

Just for your information.



posted on Aug, 21 2006 @ 06:24 PM
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This site you posted seems to be showing images of what has been discovered to be CO2 geysers on the poles of Mars. Also, I'm always a little leery of any website that uses pastel colored text and exclamation points to get their point across.



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 08:24 AM
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Been there! Done that! We'll do it tomorrow! No new news

But honestly...do you think you'll find forests in the polar regions of Mars? Do you find forests back here on Earth's poles?



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by TheGoodDoctorFunk
what has been discovered to be CO2 geysers on the poles of Mars


For clarification; it has been theorized that they are gas/sand geysers.



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 08:50 AM
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Slight problem. If NASA has been doctoring the pictures to change the colour of Mars, then why has Mars always been known (since ancient times) as the Red Planet?
This is a rhetorical question. It's red.
So is this -



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by Darkmind
Slight problem. If NASA has been doctoring the pictures to change the colour of Mars, then why has Mars always been known (since ancient times) as the Red Planet?
This is a rhetorical question. It's red.
So is this -


Because it has pretty nasty dust storms and the sun is actually white when viewed without the interference of the Earth's atmosphere. I could go on but it's a pretty silly 'defense' to start with.


Stellar



posted on Aug, 22 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Apass
Been there! Done that! We'll do it tomorrow! No new news

But honestly...do you think you'll find forests in the polar regions of Mars? Do you find forests back here on Earth's poles?


We have found far far stranger things than that and our science community is hardly every right about anything to start with. When we have photo's of things that looks like trees , on Mars, and methane emissions from Mars AND seasonal surface colour changes AND positive evidence for life in Martian meteorites AND positive surface tests for life on Mars.....


PARIS — Three-quarters of the 250 Mars science experts meeting to analyze the results from U.S. and European Mars probes believe life could have existed on Mars in the past, and 25 percent think life could be there even now, according to a poll released Feb. 25.

“We need more work for a final conclusion,” Formisano said, adding: “Life is probably the only source that could produce so much methane. The question is not any more, Was there life on Mars? The question is: Is there life on Mars today?”


www.space.com...


Your position is fast becoming a minority view even in the conservative it-must-bite-me-first science community. If you want to wait for them all to admit their error you can wait the decades that normally takes; i for one don't want to live in ignorance due to the cowardly behaviour of others.

Stellar



posted on Aug, 23 2006 @ 06:14 AM
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Ok...so we found another thread in wich to argue if there is life or not on Mars.
I don't have photos of things that look like trees. I have only photos of some dark spots in the polar caps on Mars that can be anything (CO2/sand geysers or maybe trees or whatever they are).
From Astronomy Picture of the Day Archive


What's causing seasonal dark spots on Mars? Every spring, strange dark spots appear near the Martian poles, and then vanish a few months later. These spots typically span 50 meters across and appear fan shaped. Recent observations made with THEMIS instrument onboard NASA's Mars Odyssey, currently orbiting Marscarbon dioxide (CO2) ice beneath them. Based on this evidence, a new hypothesis has been suggested where the spots are caused by explosive jets of sand-laden CO2. As a pole warms up in the spring, frozen CO2 on the surface thins, perforates, and begins to vent gaseous CO2 held underneath. Within this hypothesis, interspersed dark sand would explain the color of the spots, while the underlying frozen CO2 would explain the coolness of the spots.

(my emphasis added)

So...if they are trees...why are they cooler than the surroundings? And vanish a few month later?



Your position is fast becoming a minority view even in the conservative it-must-bite-me-first science community. If you want to wait for them all to admit their error you can wait the decades that normally takes; i for one don't want to live in ignorance due to the cowardly behaviour of others

Well...they say 33% of 250 science exprets belive that life have existed on Mars and 25% belive that still is...wich leaves another 75% which is the majority...so why am I becoming a minority?
And further more, what percentage say that "we do not know if there's life or not on Mars?". If I say that I don't know if there's life on Mars means just that, it doesn't mean that I say it isn't.

edited to add " And vanish a few month later?"

[edit on 23-8-2006 by Apass]



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by StellarX
Because it has pretty nasty dust storms and the sun is actually white when viewed without the interference of the Earth's atmosphere. I could go on but it's a pretty silly 'defense' to start with.


Stellar


Actually it doesn't. For it to be red all the time when observed, that would mean constant dust storms, all the time, all over the planet. That's impossible. It's also very bad for any plants on the planet, which would have a hard time living.
I'm not saying that life never started on Mars - there's more than enough evidence of running water in the past, and a thicker atmosphere. It's just that Mars is... well a bit of an armpit now, too cold, too dry and too dead for life to exist on the surface right now.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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According to NASA:


The north pole permanent cap is water ice. The south pole permanent cap seems to be a mixture of water and carbon dioxide ice.


They also say:



These polar caps, like ours on Earth, grow and recede with the Martian seasons.



So, what does it mean if a water ice polar cap "recedes". That means the ice is melting, and that water exists on mars. Where there is water, there is life.

aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov...


[edit on 24-8-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
So, what does it mean if a water ice polar cap "recedes". That means the ice is melting, and that water exists on mars. Where there is water, there is life.

It means the ice is transforming in vapor thru sublimation since the present day climat on Mars can not sustain water in liquid form due to the low pressure and temperature and according to the triple point of water


In pressures below the triple point, such as in outer space where the pressure is low, liquid water cannot exist: Ice skips the liquid stage and becomes steam on heating, in a process known as sublimation.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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Triple point of water
The single combination of pressure and temperature at which water, ice, and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium occurs at exactly 0.01 °C and a pressure of 6 millibars.



hypertextbook.com...


"The atmosphere pressure measured at the two Viking sites varied over a Martian year between 7 and 10 millibars."


The pressure is ABOVE the triple point.

www.astronomycafe.net...


In 2004, the Spirit rover recorded the warmest temperature around +5 C and the coldest is -15 Celsius in the Guisev Crater.



Are you sure water cant exist?

[edit on 24-8-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
According to NASA:


The north pole permanent cap is water ice. The south pole permanent cap seems to be a mixture of water and carbon dioxide ice.


They also say:



These polar caps, like ours on Earth, grow and recede with the Martian seasons.



You were talking about the polar caps.


Under martian conditions water ice does not melt, it goes directly from solid to a gaseous state, a process called sublimation.) The temperature remained under about -90 degrees Fahrenheit
link


-90 degrees Fahrenheit that is -67.77 degrees celsius
www.wbuf.noaa.gov...



In 2004, the Spirit rover recorded the warmest temperature around +5 C and the coldest is -15 Celsius in the Guisev Crater

Well...-15 degrees that's during the day.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:15 PM
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You would think it would be more hot, since there is hardly no atmosphere.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
You would think it would be more hot, since there is hardly no atmosphere.


Maybe. However Mars is much farther away from the Sun than is the Earth. The thin atmosphere means there is also very little if any greenhouse effect to hold in the heat.



posted on Aug, 24 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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Not entirely correct, but partly correct.

This is what Earth's atmosphere does:


The atmosphere protects the Earth's surface in two ways. The first way is that gases in the atmosphere are capable of absorbing certain types of radiation, like a sponge absorbs water. The second way is by reflecting radiation in the same way that a mirror reflects light. As a result, very little UV radiation from the Sun ever gets to the Earth's surface.

So imagine Mars with a thin atmosphere. More UV radiation gets through, making it more hot.



Heat, another type of energy, is absorbed or reflected by the gases in the atmosphere. Some of the heat from the Sun is reflected by the atmosphere so that the Earth does not get too hot. At night, the atmosphere prevents the Earth's heat from escaping into space. As a result, the surface does not get too cold at night.


Since Mars atmosphere is not thick enough to absorb or reflect heat, it actually makes Mars more hot. Except at night it will be cold.

Really random source: www.saburchill.com...



[edit on 24-8-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
Since Mars atmosphere is not thick enough to absorb or reflect heat, it actually makes Mars more hot. Except at night it will be cold.
[edit on 24-8-2006 by LAES YVAN]


You're not taking into account the fact that Mars is farther away from the Sun than the Earth is. The Martian atmosphere is far too thin to hold in heat, and the fact that its volcanoes appear to be either very dormant of actually extinct, means that there is no readily apparent mechanism to replenish the atmosphere.



posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN


Triple point of water
The single combination of pressure and temperature at which water, ice, and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium occurs at exactly 0.01 °C and a pressure of 6 millibars.




I knew it was a mistake sneaking around here but I just couldn't put my finger on till last night.


(Note that the pressure referred to here is the vapor pressure of the substance, not the total pressure of the entire system.)
(again from wikipedia)

And since Mars atmosphere contains only traces of water vapor the vapor pressure is well below those 6 mbars of the triple point of water. So you can't find liquid water on the surface of Mars (maybe underground, but that's a different story).
So StellarX, where's the mud at Sprit's landing site?
Further more, if there's mud at Spirit landing site, than this also is mud:


since back here on Earth the trench left by the sampler would look like that in a sandy soil only if the soil was wet.

edit to change "I just could put my finger on" with "I just couldn't put my finger on"

[edit on 25-8-2006 by Apass]


apc

posted on Aug, 25 2006 @ 12:26 PM
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Heat is infrared, not UV. Without a thick atmosphere to hold the reflected infrared, Mars radiates it back out into space and does not warm up the planet. If Mars were closer to the Sun, it could get a little warmer.

NASA does not "alter" the photos in the way being implied (see cmdrkeenkid's reference). If there is vegetation on the surface, it is colored red and can withstand extreme cold and survive without liquid water. The sky is not blue. There is nothing green. Except maybe the critters crawling off the landers. And the giant underground monster that is feeding off the corpse of the planet's core.



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