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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
lets just say for the conveniance of labbeling the sub atomic realm is very very complex and we are probably about equal to our understanding of it as the early map makers were when describing the earth as flat.... think gallileo etc.
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
also libra I didnt know that Shrodinger was in camp 2?
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
In my years of studying science and being paid by major corperations since for my take on it
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
I also fell into the trap of compartmentalising all things, though as MOST people with any knowledge of this area at the top of their proffession are now stating the quantum realm is not like that, or rather for the sake of your labelling and classification needs (an anal tendency of both myself and most "scientists" lol) "the subatomic realm" is proving more and more bizarre in (and this is the important bit) PRACTISE AND OBSERVATION rather than JUST THEORY.
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
I was convinced for soo much of my life on many differant topics and like you libra experiance, time and observation has proven me wrong on many of my belief systems. However the sub atomic realm being affected by consciousness or observation IS NOT A BELIEF SYSTEM as it has been shown time and time again.
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
also libra I didnt know that Shrodinger was in camp 2? please explain that to me.... are you positing that truly his experiments and the many since did not show that quantum processes were effected by the observer? I keenly and with great expectation look forward to your paper on the subject.
However the sub atomic realm being affected by consciousness or observation IS NOT A BELIEF SYSTEM as it has been shown time and time again.
[edit on 22-8-2006 by MischeviousElf]
Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Father,
hey how about this then?
reputable source
monotheistic are we father lol?
love and sharing elf
[edit on 22-8-2006 by MischeviousElf]
thelibra
This is the camp that should really just bow out of this thread right now and designate it as a lost cause.
Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
monotheistic are we father lol?
Atheist actually. I don't see what this has got to do with the definition of quantum physics though, as that is a purely secular discipline.
love and sharing elf
[edit on 22-8-2006 by MischeviousElf]
Bless you my son
thelibra
This is the camp that should really just bow out of this thread right now and designate it as a lost cause.
I just can't stand to see language misused in such a way. they should at least have the decency to invent thier own terminology for it, instead of stealing a phrase from science which means something completely different. It just causes confusion if nothing else.
Broadly, the arguments against the possibility are:
First, comparatively large and high temperature items like neurons just do not exist in persisting states of linear superposition capable of exhibiting interference effects, and quantum mechanics offers no reason to think they should. All brain scale systems spend their time in well defined classical states; their behavior, even after interaction with thoroughly quantum systems like a decaying atom, can be described perfectly well with ordinary probability calculus. It turns out that effective classicality extends, under almost all conditions, far below the neural level to that of medium-sized molecules, covering the relatively large neurons.
Second, the truth of decoherence is that, regardless of whether there are any conscious observers around or not, objects which would be expected to behave in an essentially classical manner do exactly that. Interaction between objects and their environments, both external and internal, does the job of 'observation' erroneously accorded only to conscious observers, effecting a process which is experimentally indistinguishable from state vector reduction. However, the "truth of decoherence" depends upon the chosen preferred basis. There is no doubt that measurements and the evolution of quantum states continues without observers; the problem raised by Quantum Mind theories is which of these states is accompanied by your observing mind.
Quantum theory is open to different interpretations, and this paper reviews some of the points of contention. The standard interpretation of quantum physics assumes that the quantum world is characterized by absolute indeterminism and that quantum systems exist objectively only when they are being measured or observed. David Bohm's ontological interpretation of quantum theory rejects both these assumptions. Bohm's theory that quantum events are party determined by subtler forces operating at deeper levels of reality ties in with John Eccles' theory that our minds exist outside the material world and interact with our brains at the quantum level. Paranormal phenomena indicate that our minds can communicate with other minds and affect distant physical systems by nonordinary means. Whether such phenomena can be adequately explained in terms of nonlocality and the quantum vacuum or whether they involve superphysical forces and states of matter as yet unknown to science is still an open question, and one which merits further experimental study.
Quantum theory is generally regarded as one of the most successful scientific theories ever formulated. But while the mathematical description of the quantum world allows the probabilities of experimental results to be calculated with a high degree of accuracy, there is no consensus on what it means in conceptual terms. Some of the issues involved are explored below.
Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
You're entitled to believe whatever you want, just as Byrd already stated...
Originally posted by Byrd
I just wish everyone understood the difference between "powerful thinking" and "quantum mechanics."
That's all I'm trying to get across here. I know that ignorance is bliss, and you can just remain blissful then. I was just trying to help. I'll leave you all be then.
By stealing terminology, and misusing terms, do you mean such as calling one self a member of the clergy, but professing athiesm?
Causes confusion, maybe of the sort, where someone would think that you were monotheistic?
and BTW the connectedness of everything is a very concrete part of QP
... which is what this test of positive thinking is about...
Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
read the Scientific journal commentary above...
if you dont start to see the relevance, then you should ask yourself if you truly understand ALL the elements of QP regardless if you work In QM,
from en.wikipedia.org...
The Journal of Scientific Exploration (JSE) is a quarterly publication of the Society for Scientific Exploration (founded in 1982). According to its mission statement, this publication was established in 1987 to provide a professional forum for the presentation, scrutiny and criticism of scientific research on topics outside the established disciplines of mainstream science.
The Journal publishes scholarly papers on topics such as alternative medicine, astrology, consciousness, paranormal phenomena, reincarnation and UFOs.[1][2] Its "Instructions for Authors" states that papers are subjected to peer review "at the discretion of the Editor-in-Chief".[3] The policy of the magazine is to maintain a critical view by presenting both sides of an argument so as not to advocate for or against any of the published topics.[4][5][citation needed] Some regard the publication as a legitimate attempt to explore the frontiers of science,[6][7][8] others view it as a forum for scientifically objectionable ideas.[9]
Originally posted by Pyros
No kidding! As an employee of a company that employs quantum physicists, invents and develops quantum systems, and operates a quantum communication network, I must say.....
I find the content of this thread completely hilarious!
Who knew that in order to create a quantum computer all we had to do is think positively! I gotta break the news to the department head....
Only if they take online avatars literally, which would be silly.
Originally posted by 2manyquestions
O.K. This might be a terrible stretch,.... and I won't even try to pretend I know much about QP,.... BUT,..... here's a potentially bad type of analogy; We all know what a screwdriver was designed to do,... yet,...... just because it is designed and used by professionals to do a specific job, does that mean that it cannot be used as an effective tool to perform other functions?
(snip)
So I guess what I'm trying to say is; While QP is great for developing systems and running communication networks, is it not possible that it might be of great use (now or someday) in other fields also, including helping explaining the "Paranormal"?
Originally posted by thelibra
Now, to address one more problem with your assumed connection to Quantum Physics... You have taken A that MIGHT relate to B, and turned it around and said B = A. That is not the case. (edit) Just because something may happen as a result of Quantum Mechanics/Physics, does not make Quantum Physics about what happened.
That does not mean Quantum Physics is about mind power. It means that Quantum physics is a vehicle for yet one more thing we don't understand. Those are not the same thing.
[edit on 8/22/2006 by thelibra]