Here is an argument divided into at least
three fronts: Propaganda in The Media, The War Itself and The Outcome.
Propaganda In the Media: Part One…
Ok so Israeli had been planning a war with Lebanon for some time
Now you don’t need to be a genius to realise this probably true. After all Hezbollah had been growing stronger literally in front of the Israelis
eyes; and who does Israel consult whenever its planning to do something militarily? Why the U.S of course. As their greatest ally it would be unwise
for them not too, (even in the hypothetical event they had every intention of ignoring them).
So basically Israel had been looking for a provocation to start a Hezbollah demolition campaign. What this means is that the argument has changed a
It was no longer Hezbollah which started this war.
This unless of course you accept the argument that Israel did a military invasion in which they wrecked their defence budget, lost over a hundred
soldiers to save two soldiers. If true the Israel must be truly insane; it’s a real life Saving Private Brian (without the tragic family history as
a justification). Say what you like about Israel but in my opinion “insane” is seldomely a good description.
So every time you here on CNN, Fox, Sky, BBC that “Hezbollah started this war” you are hearing an opinion (and one which simple logic plus
evidence dictates is probably wrong). It’s certainly true that Hezbollah provoked this war.
Although the kidnapped soldiers was the
provocation I doubt that’s what truly provoked it. I think it was their build up of arms that provoked it in truth.
If this is the reality then how neutral our media is in Israelis favour? It’s a joke; because rather than just saying “the
terrorist organisation of Hezbollah provoked this war by building up arms over the border, and Israel initionally lied to the world about this war
through saying its simply an operation to recover two kidnapped soldiers” we instead here “Hezbollah started this war”. Not “Hezbollah started
this war in our-my-Israelis opinion” but “Hezbollah started this war” as though it’s an undisputed matter of fact.
This isn’t a mistake that’s close to propaganda. Make no mistake; this is propaganda because it deliberately misleads. Arguably its only one
example of biases…
Others may include the way we forget to mention the ten to one death ratio, or in light of this give both sides equal reporting
time (as though
they are suffering equally). Forgetting to call in the military annalists to explain what sort of terrorist target power stations and airports is
But the way they report Hezbollah as starting this war (rather than provoking it) is the clearest example of propaganda amongst them all.
Part Two…The War Itself
Anyway (rightfully or wrongly) Israel has this war against Hezbollah. It was only after Israel starting bombing Lebanon that Hezbollah started
. This of course mobilises Israeli public opinion in favour of the war.
bomb power stations and airports. They deliberately bomb roads and bridges, blocks of flats and despite what they say (like
the PowerStation’s) I'm not sure if all them were bombed because they were terrorist’s targets
And in any case it’s certainly true that one third of Lebanon’s civilian population left Lebanon which is hardly true of Israel.
The Military Results…
After bombing the hell out of all manor of infrastructure from the sky Israelis discovered that (far from falling) the number of missiles kept on
rising. Right from the start new daily records were being set. On the last day before the ceasefire came into effect a new all time record was
(this in my view kind of takes the piss).
So Israel decided the natural thing to do was to launch a ground invasion. Once again they lied to the world by claiming 30,000 troops had been sent
when in fact it was closure to 10,000. But by this time they had already demonstrated other PR techniques detrimental to the truth; e.g. by realising
a video of Hezbollah missiles being fired from a civilian area;
immediately after they had just killed about 90 people in Qana
The trouble is (as the Israeli military admitted) the two videos were not the same. All the same it was an excellent PR move given how little
mention that fact got
Having sent about 10,000 troops Israel soon discovered they were dropping dead like flies.
1. July 26: 14 dead Israeli troops:
2. July 27: 8 dead: www.telegraph.co.uk...
3. August 3rd: 5 dead: www.iol.co.za...
4. August 6th direct hit kills 12: www.iht.com...
(All the above is only from a quick Googling)
I use the expression “like flies” because given the little military progress they made it really is quite a lot. And because there are far more
Arabs willing to die for Israel than there are Israelis willing to die for Israel. Hence (militarily) Hezbollah can easily afford to loose 3 troops
for every Israeli soldier they kill. It’s probably an even better ratio than Iraq; and volunteers come from both home and abroad to fight for
Part 3 The Outcome…
1. On Saturday 5th of August France and U.S agree draft ceasefire agreement www.dailykos.com...
2. 7th August: Lebanese demand it be revised to demand Israeli withdrew after hostilities have finished:
3. 11th of August: new ceasefire unanimously approved by the U.N
4. 12th August: Lebanese cabinet unanimously
(This includes two Hezbollah members
5. Israeli cabinet approves ceasefire on the 13th of August www.foxnews.com...
6. Lebanese start returning home: news.bbc.co.uk...
7. 20th August: Lebanon demands its people keep the ceasefire: news.bbc.co.uk...
According to this 16th of August source www.vindy.com...
its 118 Israeli Soldiers and 39 civilians (157 total)
815 Lebanese. We now know this to be in excess of 1000
Here is an 11th August forum source to back the figures in the first up: www.politics.ie...
As for Hezbollah’s dead: Nobody knows, I guess they were to busy fighting Israeli invaders to spend time demoralising themselves. However the
Israeli army claims its 530 on 14th August: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...
Look at the diplomatic timeline and you will see 14th of August is the day the ceasefire came into effect. So Israel is claiming 530 dead for the
whole war; they could be exaggerating but I think 530 is a pretty far figure.
Military arms expenditure…
Hezbollah has launched 3 to 4 thousand Katyusha rockets. The 118 Israeli death toll can be explained by first Israelis air raid warning system, and
secondly by their extreme in accuracy. Many Katysha’s just ended up in fields. Katyusha’s were first used by the Soviets in World War Two in 1942
I don’t know how many bombs they have dropped. I do know that in one area alone Israel dropped 4000 bombs in seven hours
1. Iran is apparently compensating families of Hezbollah dead: www.theaustralian.news.com.au...
2. Hezbollah is compensating victims of Israeli bombing (in U.S dollars): www.rep-am.com...
apparently some claimants
have received 12,000 dollars.
3. Hezbollah support at all time high
4. U.S Bush Administration rushes to support reconstruction in bid to outdo Hezbollah:
5. 20th August: Israel gets a bloody noise in special ops operation designed to prevent Hezbollah stocking up with new missiles:
And someone said Israel had won?
Well if Hezbollah’s support is at an all time high (I call this “the Blitz effect”) and if they are
rearming, and awash with cash; I would say nothing could be further from the truth. What about those captured soldiers? Never mind the 250 rockets
fired on the last day!!!
Isn’t talk of some sort of Israeli victory just more evidence of the pro Israeli bias in our press? What has Israel accomplished?
I would be astonished if the 530 Hezbollah fighters the Israelis say
they have killed; haven’t already been replaced with new recruits.
Question: Would it be unrealistic to say double-quadruple that is at least
in the pipeline?
6. Meanwhile Israelis and Arabs are unhappy with ceasefire
Personally whilst I'm very glad the fighting has stopped I have to admit so am I. Because if the Israeli public is psychologically damaged enough by
their experience in the region to think they should have finished the job; then maybe that would be an excellent idea? Finishing the job would mean
losing about 40 Israeli soldiers everyday until the Israeli public realises that no matter
how many fighters or civilians it kills their will
always be plenty of people willing to fight them.
Even if (hypothetically) Israel nuked the whole surface of Lebanon after day one Hezbollah fighters would emerge from the caves and tunnels even more
eager to die knowing they would otherwise suffer the results of radiation poising. After week one Hezbollah would be joined with other Arab fighters
across the borders. The nuked out terrain might provide even better sniper-fighter material than if it had been left completely standing.
It’s obvious that the Israeli public (cushioned by the way with news censorship) doesn’t realise this. Their Prime Minister has made his first
politically brave decision (really on behalf of his people) by saving them (and the region) the bloodshed that would be needed to get the message over
to this messed up public.
Why are we the west going to send troops to Lebanon?
If it’s to do with human rights and stuff there is another way. We simply say to Israel: Israel you can do your bombing but leave airports, power
stations (and most apartment blocks) of the list. If you don’t like that then we won’t supply you with money and weapons. But as you need our
money and weapons (just to exist) we know
you will comply with basic rules of war in order to have access to those weapons.
This way Israel has it’s war, civilian lives are safeguarded, and in the event Israel doesn’t comply we only need cut its weapons supply of for a
week and you can sure that by week two they will comply.
If Israelis think the war in Lebanon was right thing why doesn’t it provide the troops? We after all will inevitably (and I would say wickedly)
provide it with both the money and weapons it needs to sustain a war. Why should our troops do anything in Lebanon?
What I See Happening…
1. Ceasefire continues for a bit
2. U.N troops from European countries arrive (Note: these are areas where pro Israelis have great influence over the media
3. Suddenly the ceasefire is violated; war commences.
4. U.N troops are left with a choice: Who do you fight? Hezbollah or the Israelis? Hezbollah or the Israelis? (Fighting Israelis is a bit like
fighting the U.S by the way). I'm not sure if it’s worse or second in U.S policy eyes; but it’s defiantly one of the two.
5. U.N troops basically become reinforcements for the Israeli army.
6. After many casualties; the U.N and the Israeli army looses. At the very least no progress is made; because as long as Hezbollah is a popular
defender against Israeli; Hezbollah has everything needed to sustain a guerrilla army.
Israeli and Lebanese troops are left to sort out everything; because (for the Israelis) there is no one else. We typically (immorally) sustain Israeli
from the sidelines with cash and arms; whilst (perhaps) monitoring civilian atrocities with aid threats (which at some point would almost certainly
have to be carried out).
Meanwhile we prepare to loose many more of own troops with the war against Iran.
100% My Opinion
This is another war effectively on Israelis behalf because without needing to defend Israel there is no reason why we can’t have peace with Iran.
Israel has nuclear weapons and many of Iran’s leader aren’t holy; but people who fear Mutually Assured Destruction as much as any man (because
they would go to hell even by the standards of their own religion).
The ones that are holy aren’t completely crazy, and many of them won’t want to explain to Allah why they caused a mass extinction of his
believers. You have to be truly insane to fill the portrait of the pro-death, Muslim, fanatical leader seen in our own pro war propaganda. These
people don’t actually run Iran; even the Iranian president doesn’t run Iran; the Ayatollah on the over hand does. Anything the Iranian president
says is just a damn good way finish a speech.
So ATS What Do You Make of the Comments and Facts I Posted I’ve Posted In This Thread So Far?
Are we behaving like Israeli slaves? Look into Friends of Israel or even this other thread of mine politics.abovetopsecret.com...
where I did my own research using political donations data from the electoral commission and you will hopefully see they at least hold a strong
[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]