Not allowing a terrorist organization to gain political power...

dr. condoleeza rice, george w. bush, and dick "headshot" cheney, have made statements along the lines of "we shouldn't allow terrorist organizations to gain political influence in the middle east."

remember the KKK, they used to be a political powerhouse in certain states, and if they weren't terrorists, i don't know who is. (damn, ended with a preposition)

now, how come we don't acknowledge the periods of time that we had an armed political party terrorizing minorities, and use that as an example of why we shouldn't allow hizbollah to stay armed?

also, there are still small bands of extremists that exploit the 2nd ammendment to keep themselves relativly armed, yet they aren't targeted as part of the global conflict on terror, ongoing battle with extremism, or whatever we're calling it these days.

The term terrorism is so vauge as that it suits whatever whim this administration assigns to it. Hamas has been elected democraticly and have resisted an illegal occupation of their lands for over 30 years and the conditions these people live in are gross human rights concerns, yet the factors that have stressed them into these conditions are never taken into account as being responsible.

Luxifero

posted by madnessinmysoul

Condo Rice, Bush43, and VP Cheney have made statements along the lines of "we shouldn't allow terrorist organizations to gain political influence in the Middle East." [Edited by Don W]

Yeah, and look where that West of the Pecos wisdom has got us!

The KKK used to be a political powerhouse in certain states, and if they weren't terrorists, I don't know who is.

Grammar or no, you are exactly right, Mad-Soul. There were serious efforts to revive the KKK in the 1960s, but one of the widows of a civil rights activist murdered by the Klan won a law suit and took title to the KKK property. That suit resulted in the founding of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Irony.

“ . . we don't acknowledge we had an armed political party terrorizing minorities . . why shouldn't Hezbollah stay armed? There are small bands of extremists that exploit the 2nd amendment to keep themselves armed, yet they aren't targeted as part of the global conflict on terror, the ongoing battle with extremism, or whatever we're calling it these days.

Talking sense is not what makes Condo, B43 and VP Cheney strong amongst their “base” of true believers. They deal with fiction, not facts.

i now issue a formal apology for any gramatical mistake i made in the initial post, i made said post on my 43 hour of a 50 hour no sleep cramming marathon

That's the beauty of Democracy.

Everyone gets a shot and the public gets to judge them on their merits.

Well i don't think you can compare groups like KKK to resistance movements like Hezbollah etc...

Hezbollah was created during brutal occupation of there homeland. There is no comparason.

To stop groups like Hezbollah, Hamas from being politically powerfull you have to destory the reasons why they exist. e.g. if Israel had never invaded lebanon and occupied it groups like Hezbollah would have never existed and would have never had the ability to have political power.

These groups gain public support becuase they provide the public with a service.
When the Lebonese people where occupuied they needed a service which was freedom from occupation and Hezbollah was the one that provided it and this basically made them popular. And also they provide health care, education and support for there local community. And thats why they are popular.

If the west put a leash on Israel and made it follow international law and made it completly pull out of all arab land and allowed the right of return then groups that are against Israel will cease to exist over a number of years becuase they would no longer have a reason to exist and will no longer get recruits because there is no need for them and they are not providing a service which is needed.

To stop groups being popular to need to create circumstances which mean they have no reason to exist. A large majority of "terror" groups in the world exist becuase of occupation e.g Chechnya, Palestine, Kashmir etc... If you eliminated occupation then would would automatically eliminate the need for these types of groups to exist and if they dont exist they will not be popular movments and hence they can never get into politics.

Middle East observations.
I don’t understand what is so hard to grasp about the popularity of Hamas in Palestine and Hezbollah in Lebanon. First off, ‘those’ people take their religion seriously. I am glad we do not do that here - well, excluding today’s born agains - because it is so easy to get bogged down in that popular argument of the Middle Ages: how many angels can dance on the head of a pin - unless you get into the argument over which sex were angels, if indeed angels had any sex at all. I hope everyone here can take a lesson from those over there not to fall too deeply into the mysterious realms of religion. It’s a killer!

Let’s look for a minute. They don’t have food stamps in the Middle East. They don’t have Section 8 in the Middle East. They don’t have Medicaid in the Middle East. They don’t have unemployment insurance in the Middle East. They don’t have Workers’ Compensation in the Middle East. They don’t have SSI in the Middle East. They don’t have Chapter 13 bankruptcy in the Middle East. I was going to say they don’t have Pell Grants in the Middle East but we cancelled those here so I can’t offer that one.

Q. So what happens when in the vicissitudes of life you fall on hard times? A. It’s your extended family that saves you. Provided you have acted right in your life. Provided you have not breached some of the taboos of your culture. The worst breach being converting to another religion. That’s their culture. Until 200-300 years ago, that was true in Christian culture, too. Well, it still is present even in 2006. But not to the extent it once was. When I start talking about religion I find myself hard pressed to come up with one good thing to say about it, as an institution as opposed to those who adhere.

The extended family has gone the way of "progress" in the West. One more of those issues the “radical” Islamic Middle Easterners disagree with vehemently. It's a new way of life. They do not see this relatively recent innovation as offering advantages over the old way of life unless you count the number of plastic toys as a measure of progress. Or the plethora of guns the US is so much enamored with, and the consequent drive-by shootings, armed robberies beyond counting and murder or accidental shooting in 100s of American homes every year, met by casual shrugs of NRA types. Hey, accidents happen. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Hmm? America in Century21. My city of Jax just recorded its 100th homicide for this year! I'd wager this is more than in all of the British Isles! And throw in New Zealand and Singapore. Our population is barely 750,000. But we have guns everywhere. God bless the Second Amendment. Hmm?

Hamas and Hezbollah have worked out a very satisfactory ration for them - it drives us crazy - they spend 80% of their resources and money on helping their people. They do it in an uncorrupt way. They do it without a plethora of paper work. You need help, you get it. No background checks, no receipts. The tv showed Hezbollah handing our 1000s of US greenbacks in Lebanon yesterday. Money desperately needed today, not next year. The system we participate in would be lucky if 25% of what we call foreign aid gets to the people who need it. Hey, corruption is not confined to Washington DC!

The Sunni - Hamas - and Shia - Hezbollah - know where they can get help. This is why both groups are so popular and will remain popular. Israel thought they could dynamite their way to popularity. Yes, they did, on Main Street, USA. But nowhere in the remainder of the world. Another coup for the anti-West movements of the Middle East. Will we ever learn?

The Final Solution? The US must do these 4 things. Sooner or later. Sooner will save untold 1000s of dead GIs and indigent personnel. But you have to admit you were wrong and for our Administration that is a no no. “Hey, Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job!”

1) Return the Temple Mount to Arab control
2) End the Palestinian question on fair terms
3) Stop supporting autocratic anti-democratic regimes
4) Spend serious money alleviating poverty

This will end the turmoil in the Middle East.

To vote for an auto forum, click here
www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 8/22/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by iqonx
Hezbollah was created during brutal occupation of there homeland. There is no comparason.

To stop groups like Hezbollah, Hamas from being politically powerfull you have to destory the reasons why they exist. e.g. if Israel had never invaded lebanon and occupied it groups like Hezbollah would have never existed and would have never had the ability to have political power.

These groups gain public support becuase they provide the public with a service.
When the Lebonese people where occupuied they needed a service which was freedom from occupation and Hezbollah was the one that provided it and this basically made them popular. And also they provide health care, education and support for there local community. And thats why they are popular.

You have voted iqonx for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

straight to the point
i agree completly to get rid of these groups you have to first go to the bottom of why they were created and then stop that sitictuation from escilating,
just like you would do with a fire, choke it of o2 and they fire is starved so it burns out.

take away the fuel and you solve the problem
do what the US and Israel are doing and add more fuel to the fire and you get a new generation hell bent on killing americans and israelis

Our very own president learned a new word recently. R O B U S T. He likes it. He uses it a lot. it can describe almost anything in the Middle East according to him. It must be a good word. I have heard Sec State Condo Rice use it. And etc. I tried to use it here but I could not find a sentence it fitted into, despite my robust efforts.


At the United Nations - Resolution Number 1680

THE SECURITY COUNCIL,
Determining that the situation in Lebanon constitutes a threat to international peace and security;

1. Calls for a full cessation of hostilities, in particular, the immediate cessation by Hizbollah of all attacks and the immediate cessation by Israel of all offensive military operations; [Note: Israel claims they are acting purely in a defensive mode and nothing they are doing in Lebanon is ‘offensive,’ to them, including the destruction of every bridge in Lebanon.]

2. Upon full cessation of hostilities, calls upon the government of Lebanon and UNIFIL (The U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon) as authorized by paragraph 11 to deploy their forces together throughout the south and calls upon the government of Israel, as that deployment begins, to withdraw all of its forces from southern Lebanon in parallel; [Re-read this as it is now being disputed by Israel.]

4. Reiterates its strong support for full respect for the Blue Line (separating Israel and Lebanon);

5. Also reiterates its strong support, for the territorial integrity, sovereignty and political independence of Lebanon within its internationally recognized borders, as contemplated by the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949; [Israel routinely ignores those resolutions with impunity provided by the United States.]

6. Calls on the international community to take immediate steps to extend its financial and humanitarian assistance to the Lebanese people, and to consider further assistance in the future to contribute to the reconstruction and development of Lebanon; [Someday the Law of Nations will required those who destroy property to pay for the rebuilding. You tear it up, you pay to fix it up.]

8. Calls for Israel and Lebanon to
1) support a permanent cease-fire . . to
2) prevent the resumption of hostilities . . “
- full implementation of the relevant provisions of
3) theTaif Accords, that require
4) the disarmament of all armed groups in Lebanon, so that, pursuant to the Lebanese cabinet decision of July 27, 2006, there will be no weapons or authority in Lebanon other than that of the Lebanese state, -
5) no foreign forces in Lebanon without the consent of its government, -
6) no sales or supply of arms and related materiel to Lebanon except as authorized by its government, -
7) provision to the United Nations of all remaining maps of land mines in Lebanon in Israel's possession; [Q. Are the US and Israel the last remaining civilized countries to deploy land mines? 95% kill or maim civilians, mostly children.]

10. Requests the secretary-general to develop, in liaison with relevant international actors and the concerned parties, proposals including dealing with the Shebaa farms area, and to present to the Security Council those proposals within thirty days;

11. Decides, in order to supplement and enhance the force in numbers, equipment, mandate and scope of operations, to authorize an increase in the force strength of UNIFIL to a maximum of 15,000 troops, and that the force shall, in addition to carrying out its mandate under resolutions 425 and 426:
a. Monitor the cessation of hostilities;
b. Accompany and support the Lebanese armed forces as they deploy throughout the south, including along the Blue Line, as Israel withdraws its armed forces from Lebanon as provided in paragraph 2;
c. Coordinate its activities related to paragraph 11 (b) with the government of Lebanon and the government of Israel;
d. Extend its assistance to help ensure humanitarian access to civilian populations and the voluntary and safe return of displaced persons;
e. Assist the Lebanese armed forces in taking steps towards the establishment of the area as referred to in paragraph 8;
f. Assist the government of Lebanon, at its request, to implement paragraph 14;

12. “ . . authorizes UNIFIL to take all necessary action in areas of deployment of its forces and as it deems within its capabilities, to ensure that its area of operations is not utilized for hostile activities of any kind, to resist attempts by forceful means to prevent it from discharging its duties under the mandate of the Security Council, and to protect United Nations personnel . . to protect civilians under imminent threat of physical violence;

15. Decides further that all states shall take the necessary measures to prevent, by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels or aircraft,
(a) the sale or supply to any entity or individual in Lebanon of arms and related materiel of all types, including weapons and ammunition, military vehicles and equipment, paramilitary equipment, and spare parts for the aforementioned, whether or not originating in their territories, and
(b) the provision to any entity or individual in Lebanon of any technical training or assistance related to the provision, manufacture, maintenance or use of the items listed in subparagraph (a) above, except that these prohibitions shall not apply to arms, related material, training or assistance authorized by the government of Lebanon or by U NIFIL as authorized in paragraph 11 . . “ [Edited by Don W]

So we disarm Hizbollah and leave Israel's arms intact? Hmm? Do you really think that will work?



[edit on 8/22/2006 by donwhite]