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Member "picklewalsh" banned

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posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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It is with a certain level of dismay and a great deal of disgust that we have decided to break with our standard protocol of not publicly mentioning the banning of a member.

Unfortunately this member has broken a trust that represents the core values of the WorldWideWeb as a whole and this site and it's community's collaborative trust in one another specifically.

Our Creative Commons License is very precise and very generous on how the content of AboveTopSecret.com may be reproduced and displayed virtually anywhere for no cost.

It is one thing when we see people who never "got" the whole ATS civility and community idea and left in a fit of rage copying our content and pasting it on their site in an effort to "get back at us" for what they feel was some sort of unfair treatment or what have you. We can sort of understand the motive there, wrong as it is.

It is quite another thing when we discover a current member, who has been given free and full access to every feature on this site, used these features to their fullest extent to his own benefit, STEALING ATS content by copying and pasting COMPLETE THREADS onto his own site.

Worse yet, "picklewalsh" posted all of these stolen threads under his user name on that site making it appear as though it is HIS work. There were no links to the original threads or even a mention of the ATS Members who are the genuine authors of the work he has stolen and plagiarized.

This is in violation of every International Copyright Law on the books and shows a complete lack of respect for the collaborative free exchange of ideas the web is based upon and the Creative Commons Deed that protects this free exchange.

To his credit, "picklwalsh" has deleted the plagiarized threads at our request and has apologized for his theft.

Normally we simply write to the offending site's administrator and inform them of the copyright infringement and the issue is resolved. There have been very few cases where we have had to have our legal representation contact the ISP of an offending site because the admin was the person committing the plagiarism/content theft and refused our repeated, polite requests to honor the Creative Commons Deed like a considerate and professional webmaster.

This case however has hit us where we live, a Member of our own community has stolen from us while, at the same time, enjoying our hospitality.

We would like to take this opportunity to notify everyone that if you have a site of your own, or visit other discussion sites and you have copied ATS content on to those sites, PLEASE review the Creative Commons Deed and make certain your posts or content additions are in compliance with those simple requirements.

That's all we've ever asked of anyone, common courtesy and respect for the work the authors have put into the content of this site by way of credit where credit is due.

Sincerely,

Simon Gray, SkepticOverlord and Springer
"The Three Amigos" and Owners of AboveTopSecret.com, LLP


[edit on 8-20-2006 by Springer]




posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:30 AM
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I am sure he did not realize the legal issues involved-I for one did/do not.

I am not telling ATs or any members what to do, but let me leave you with this one thought:

"To err is human, to forgive devine"

I am not sure about this link-it was part of the preview of a google search.
Here is the link to the google search-it was in the into of the first webpage listed

Link

Since it refers to this site , I will list it's link to
link2



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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Jesus christ what happend to the ATS i knew



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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I don't agree with the ban. It was far too strict of a punishment for a member who's, as far as I recall, first offense was this.

Especially for a member that apologized and dont down the material.

We're looking at it maliciously, like he was stealing information, but perhaps if you look at it more objectively, was he perhaps just not quoting information properly?

I think, with all due respect, that this ban was made hastefully and was a poor judgement call for a relatively good member, who made a simple mistake.

Give him another chance.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Marto_Bagg
Jesus christ what happend to the ATS i knew


Maybe everyone should take a few minutes to check out the T&C's. That way everyone will KNOW what the rules were that EVERYONE agreed to when registering. It will also bring some understanding on this issue.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Marto_Bagg
Jesus christ what happend to the ATS i knew


Maybe everyone should take a few minutes to check out the T&C's. That way everyone will KNOW what the rules were that EVERYONE agreed to when registering. It will also bring some understanding on this issue.


Like all rules and regulations, there is following the letter of the law or following the INTENT of the law.

I don't believe the intent was criminal or malious.

I think ATS could make a real big point of being big enough to "forgive" a mistake.

I ask the 3 Amegios to PLEASE conside what I am saying.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar


Give him another chance.


I 2nd that



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 11:53 AM
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I'm am saddened by this. I have spoken to PW many times, and found him to be a most helpful and positive member. He made no secret of his own website, and I've seen him ask for help, and opinions of it from members here. That shows me that he had no idea he was in the wrong. I don't think he would set out to rip this place off for his own gain, and probably thought it was fair use. Of course, you have your rules. I'm just sorry to see a valued member of the community leave like this.

All the best PW.

I'm dismayed that we have lost such a good Member, but on review of this thread, I see we still have as a Member who spreads hate and racism, and brands his fellow Members as supporters of terrorism, if they do not agree with him that "all Muslims are evil".

Funny old world.

[edit on 20/8/06 by Implosion]



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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I'm very sorry to see this happen, too.
PW was a great contributor to the site, and as much as he promoted his website, I don't believe that he had done this maliciously, as he would have hidden purposeful stealing if he had. I don't know what the history is, or if this is the first incident or not, but I would also request a second chance? The fact that this happened is already enough of a warning it seems.

Implosion:
It is a funny old world. :shk:



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:04 PM
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I would possibly believe the "fair use" argument except for one thing.


originally posted by Springer
Worse yet, "picklewash" posted all of these stolen threads under his user name on that site making it appear as though it is HIS work. There were no links to the original threads or even a mention of the ATS Members who are the genuine authors of the work he has stolen and plagiarized.


If the entire thread was copied, including posts' authors, I suppose an argument for ignorance could be made.

But when you intentionally delete the actual authors that's another story. Publishing another's work as your own is plagarism, pure and simple, no matter what medium it's in.

[edit on 8/20/2006 by eaglewingz]



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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Still, a rule is a rule. Making profit from others is in direct violation of these rules and should be judged accordingly. I just feel he was lucky for it not to go any further.

Respect where respect is due however, I have seen 'PW's' contributions and all seem fairly good. Often hardworking and dedicated members are hard to come by. But a severe rule (both in T&C and by law) has been broken and I think the banning was acceptable given the circumstances.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:07 PM
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Ya that sucks man, Having someone take hard work and use it as their own.

Over in the 3d community about 3 years ago this guy named Dale Williams literally stole around 300 pieces of art and claimed them to be his own. I always wondered that after that incident. What can happen if someone stole my work. But as a community and CGtalk backing the 3d people the issue was resolved. After that incident I learned alot stealing art. It is an offensive crime and can cost the person alot of money.

I think people should think before they steal but I guess you have a moron someone at any given time.

If you don't know the rules about Plagiarizing someone else's work and are thinking about it. I suggest people should read up before they steal, cause it can cost them/their parents a HELL of alot of money if the artist would pursue it all the way to court.

For those interested in the guy I mentioned. Here is the post over at CGtalk. This is really interesting cause it does give alot of info on plagiarism. and alot of flaming but as most artists on there don't make stick figures.

forums.cgsociety.org...

Anyway good catch Springer and staff.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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It's not a case of simple ignorance.

I liked Picklewalsh, but if you take someone's work without giving them due credit, it's plagiarism (theft) pure and simple. I'm a writer, and I have absolutely no problem with people reading and even giving away my work free of charge - as long as they give credit to the author, I'm just happy that the stuff is getting read.

Big difference between that, and what happened here. Big freakin' difference.

Pickle knew the deal, made a decision, and now must suffer the unavoidable consequences. 1+1=2

Marto
The ATS you used to know encouraged plagiarism? What a bunch of nonsense.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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OH man I dont know what to say


On one hand, it was very wrong for pickle to have done this.

On the other, he did apologise and delete the info. Perhaps, just a massive brain fart.

He's a good guy. Please give him a second chance.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:17 PM
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I thought of a question for The 3/4 guys running ATS.

What if something like this happens.

Say that 9/11 plane hit the Pentagon ended up in the news paper? With no credit for whoever wrote what in there?

I give you an example.



This artist Made this piece public on 8/04. Sometime after he made this public this showed up.



With no credit to the artist at all.

Post here about it.
forums.cgsociety.org...

I am wondering what would happen if something like this happened here. What actions would/could/should be taken?

Considering I think Catherder is banned now right??

[edit on 8/20/2006 by ThichHeaded]



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:17 PM
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Even ATS's T&C was copied onto that forum.
One or two copied threads may be forgivable, but having as many threads copied and pasted like that, even our T&C is way too much.
I know Picklewalsh had a lot of friends here and I don’t blame you for wanting to stick up for your pals but he knew what he was doing. He was a member here for a long time and every sing post on ATS has a this link on it. copyright

[edit on 20/8/2006 by Umbrax]



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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Wyrde, yeah, you are right.


I must admit to be fair, that some of the information presented on the site gave me no visible indication that it came from ATS. I didn't recognize the information, so I never realized, but fair is fair, and this is what we all agreed to.


When it comes down to it, as someone who has had work stolen before, it wasn't the intent that caused the harm, as much as the effects that came after. When your work is your art, it isn't easy to let it be borrowed off.

And as I always say, if we allow this to slip by, what later will be allowed to slip by because of precendent? *hate eating my own words, but I've said that enough to not be hypocritical*



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
It's not a case of simple ignorance.

I liked Picklewalsh, but if you take someone's work without giving them due credit, it's plagiarism (theft) pure and simple. I'm a writer, and I have absolutely no problem with people reading and even giving away my work free of charge - as long as they give credit to the author, I'm just happy that the stuff is getting read.

Big difference between that, and what happened here. Big freakin' difference.



Maybe he he plagiarized, maybe he just forgot to quote or realize the creative commons liscense. But he did apologize and take it down, perhap he just forgot to give credit, or a quote?

I mean, especially for a person thats been so compliant with the requests to take it off, and fora first offender, is that a just use of ToS?

After all, if you want to be strict about ToS, lets go all out, mine as well ban everyone.

2c.) Multiple Accounts: You will not create multiple user accounts and "talk to yourself".

I can think of almost three people on the top of my head that have multiple accounts here, or, well, some former BANNED members that are back from the dead on multiple accounts.

1f.) Political Baiting: You will not engage in politically-charged rhetoric, politically-inspired name-calling, and related right-versus-left political bickering while posting outside the Politics forums at politics.abovetopsecret.com....

Half the people on PTS should be banned already.

2e.) Illegal Activity: Discussion of any illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.

How many "Tripamines and God" threads or just general drug talk is there on the forum? start the banning.


Now, dont get me wrong, I love ATS, I think the rules are fine, but your lax on most of them. Why so strict now, on a member you know didnt do it maliciously? Hell it took netchicken THREE times to get banned for doing little pranks. You gave Net Three, but pickle 0?

I just dont think its fair.



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:26 PM
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May I ask what threads it was that he stole please. Or at least a few examples. I am not in any way trying to doubt your decision. You did what you had to do and I respect that. I am asking because I would like to know what kind, and who's information he stole and tried to pull off as his own. If he stole entire threads and made it sound like it was all him, then, it hurt more than just the three amigos, it hurt all of us.

I am sure that many of us would like to know.




(however, I will still be rooting for pickle to have a second chance. He made a stupid mistake, we are all guilty for stupid mistakes. All in all he is a good guy, and even if it were my words that he stole, I would forgive him, and want him to be able to come back. )

[edit on 20-8-2006 by mrsdudara]



posted on Aug, 20 2006 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
After all, if you want to be strict about ToS, lets go all out, mine as well ban everyone.

2c.) Multiple Accounts: You will not create multiple user accounts and "talk to yourself".

I can think of almost three people on the top of my head that have multiple accounts here, or, well, some former BANNED members that are back from the dead on multiple accounts.


Hmm, care to help us out with a u2u? There's 50 staff with a membership of over 60,000.


1f.) Political Baiting: You will not engage in politically-charged rhetoric, politically-inspired name-calling, and related right-versus-left political bickering while posting outside the Politics forums at politics.abovetopsecret.com....

Half the people on PTS should be banned already.


That's what PTS was created for, political discussion.


2e.) Illegal Activity: Discussion of any illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.

How many "Tripamines and God" threads or just general drug talk is there on the forum? start the banning.


Have to look into this one, I'm not familliar with it. Remember? Only 50 staff and we have lives too.



Now, dont get me wrong, I love ATS, I think the rules are fine, but your lax on most of them. Why so strict now, on a member you know didnt do it maliciously? Hell it took netchicken THREE times to get banned for doing little pranks. You gave Net Three, but pickle 0?

I just dont think its fair.


I don't recall NC stealing intellectual property. This is a serious issue, moreso than a "prank".



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