Can someone explain Radical Islam?

Originally posted by Mr_Peel

Just as you can find passages in the Christian Bible that seem to justify killing of non-believers, so will you find them in the Q'ran. That does not mean that all Christians or Muslims believe in killing non-believers.

You will also find murderous Christian sub-sects like the Army of God and Christian Identity among Christians -- plus people who are sufficiently sympathetic to terrorism that they would hide someone like Eric Rudolph for five years in their community.

We can have a dialog about radical Islam, but let's be accurate and fair.

well of course... thats understood... i hope.

like the cliche goes there are bad seeds in any bunch... right?!

however... i dont see a number of militas out there in the militant christian wings trying everything to try and go in and kill innocent people on mass scale using suicide bombs or planes. if there is let me know.

radical islam is a totally different dynamic when compared to radical christianity.
ive never seen pat robertson or jerry fallwel calling for the destruction of islam.


please dont confuse me with someone who thinks that christianity isnt violent. i know.

but like i said... the bad part of christianity is different and plays by different rules then the bad part of islam.

what this thread is about is the origions of radical islam (the bad part) not the origions or a refresh on the bad part of christianity. everyone knows and goes to every extent to try and make the point over and over that christianity has a lot of dirt.

its quite clear that christianity is the most hated religon on the planet.

sorry mr peel. i re-read my last response and it did sound like i was trying to attack you.... i want you to know that thats not my intention. please dont confuse this.
i just want you to know that i respect this whole dialouge and you... but i want to come to an understanding on what makes radical islam tick.... why it is the way it is etc.

right now im in the understanding that radical islam is the way it is because ISLAM (yes i said Islam) cant keep up with modernity or it has issues with modernity.

So islam (being an organic structure... much like christianity) has issues with modernity and we are seeing current radical islam as the backlash.

again... i understand that i can be wrong... but i havent read or heard anything that comes up with a good counter against this.

[edit on 21-8-2006 by krossfyter]

Originally posted by krossfyter
So islam (being an organic structure... much like christianity) has issues with modernity and we are seeing current radical islam as the backlash.

again... i understand that i can be wrong... but i havent read or heard anything that comes up with a good counter against this.

Did you read much in this thread? There are over a billion Muslims in the world and only a fraction of a percent are so-called "radicals"...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Radical Islamic terrorist/terrorism isn't the purely religious-motivated activity as the GCH (Global Corporate Hegemony) wants you to believe. Take a hard look at some of their non-lethal activities. They are clearly involved in some activities strictly forbidden by their religion such as the drug trade, kidnapping their fellow Muslims for ransom and the sex trades. Some one is clearly using the Radical Islamic Movement as a front or diversion for a purpose or agenda not readily detected. I hate to sound conspiratorial but historically speaking, Fundamentalist Islam has always been factionanlized along tribal and regional lines , so for it somehow to become suddenly a well-organized global terrorist threat seems a tad extraordinary to me. Follow the money and I'll bet you'll find the true sponsors of these radicals. I don't think the answers or solutuions to the current terrorist situation needs a why it's happening so much as a who's behind it all.

Originally posted by crgintx

Radical Islamic terrorist/terrorism isn't the purely religious-motivated activity as the GCH (Global Corporate Hegemony) wants you to believe. Take a hard look at some of their non-lethal activities. They are clearly involved in some activities strictly forbidden by their religion such as the drug trade, kidnapping their fellow Muslims for ransom and the sex trades. Some one is clearly using the Radical Islamic Movement as a front or diversion for a purpose or agenda not readily detected. I hate to sound conspiratorial but historically speaking, Fundamentalist Islam has always been factionanlized along tribal and regional lines , so for it somehow to become suddenly a well-organized global terrorist threat seems a tad extraordinary to me. Follow the money and I'll bet you'll find the true sponsors of these radicals.

Probably Mossad.

*sigh*

As usual.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by crgintx

Radical Islamic terrorist/terrorism isn't the purely religious-motivated activity as the GCH (Global Corporate Hegemony) wants you to believe. Take a hard look at some of their non-lethal activities. They are clearly involved in some activities strictly forbidden by their religion such as the drug trade, kidnapping their fellow Muslims for ransom and the sex trades. Some one is clearly using the Radical Islamic Movement as a front or diversion for a purpose or agenda not readily detected. I hate to sound conspiratorial but historically speaking, Fundamentalist Islam has always been factionanlized along tribal and regional lines , so for it somehow to become suddenly a well-organized global terrorist threat seems a tad extraordinary to me. Follow the money and I'll bet you'll find the true sponsors of these radicals.

Probably Mossad.

*sigh*

As usual.

My money's on the Chinese, maybe the Russians. It a whole lot cheaper to finance a terrorist movement to sap our military strength than create an army effective enough to fight our forces in open battle. There are plenty of poor Islamic people to fill the ranks of the movement who've been spoon fed religious and racist dogma for centuries. Why send your troops to get killed?

Originally posted by crgintx

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by crgintx

Radical Islamic terrorist/terrorism isn't the purely religious-motivated activity as the GCH (Global Corporate Hegemony) wants you to believe. Take a hard look at some of their non-lethal activities. They are clearly involved in some activities strictly forbidden by their religion such as the drug trade, kidnapping their fellow Muslims for ransom and the sex trades. Some one is clearly using the Radical Islamic Movement as a front or diversion for a purpose or agenda not readily detected. I hate to sound conspiratorial but historically speaking, Fundamentalist Islam has always been factionanlized along tribal and regional lines , so for it somehow to become suddenly a well-organized global terrorist threat seems a tad extraordinary to me. Follow the money and I'll bet you'll find the true sponsors of these radicals.

Probably Mossad.

*sigh*

As usual.

My money's on the Chinese, maybe the Russians. It a whole lot cheaper to finance a terrorist movement to sap our military strength than create an army effective enough to fight our forces in open battle. There are plenty of poor Islamic people to fill the ranks of the movement who've been spoon fed religious and racist dogma for centuries. Why send your troops to get killed?

interesting theory.

i may agree.

Originally posted by krossfyter

Originally posted by crgintx

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by crgintx




interesting theory.

i may agree. [/quote)


No, It was a weather balloon.

Originally posted by crgintx
[q

No, It was a weather balloon.

scratch mark traced across the surface of your mind, this hour now upon us
the hour has now arrived.

JohnLear - You accuse me of being ignorant about Islam. I spent a year in Saudi Arabia and got to know some of the more moderate types. All of the Saudis I dealt with were OK, even if we didn't see eye to eye about some things. I was never threatened or felt like I was ever in any danger of any type. I also don't have anything bad to say about them. I felt that there soceity is backwards, but that is my western point of view. I also realize that all Muslums are not Arabs to.

My rant and rage is directed at the militant, no holds barred types. I personally don't care whom I offend when I am talking about these radicals. They are human trash and the sooner they all meet there Allah, the better.

Originally posted by simtek 22

My rant and rage is directed at the militant, no holds barred types. I personally don't care whom I offend when I am talking about these radicals. They are human trash and the sooner they all meet there Allah, the better.

Just off the top of my head I think you be making a few more round trips to the Cube than the rest of us. But thats just a guess.

Originally posted by simtek 22

My rant and rage is directed at the militant, no holds barred types. I personally don't care whom I offend when I am talking about these radicals. They are human trash and the sooner they all meet there Allah, the better.

I too get enraged when I hear of people being murdered by a suicide bomber or some similar activity. It is difficult to not be angry at what we perceive as senseless murder if one cares. It the choice is innocent people being killed by a terrorist or the terrorist dying alone and meeting "there (sic) Allah," I agree with Simtek that the sooner the better. However, I would prefer that the "human trash" experience a change of heart and discover a better alternative than suicide, violence, murder and mayhem.

I am unsure of whether "modernity," or the lack thereof, is the case. At one time, in the distant past, the Muslim civilization was the most modern culture in all respects including, science, civil rights, and technology. If the present problem is a refusal to accept modernity, this would represent a rejection of their past and history and an embracement of a new notion of being more backward.

I think the causes are complex (as I previously statedf). A complete discussion of causes will not be adequate without recognizing the frustration of many with the Balfour declaration and the U.N. resolution establishing Israel. I only bring these issues up because I know the very existence of Israel frustrates many who believe foreigners had no right to unilaterally establish the state of Israel where it presently stands. I do not state these things because I agree with these arguments (because I am a supporter of Israel and its right to exist), but do so only to articulate the arguments that many have on the other side of the equation. Many arguments are not articulated or heard on mainstream news media.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Did you read much in this thread? There are over a billion Muslims in the world and only a fraction of a percent are so-called "radicals"...

Not true. Polls have shown very substantial support for radicals in Muslim countries. Support for suicide bombers, and most telling, support for Osama Bin Laden. Do a Google, poll results are everywhere. For example, just in Jordan ALONE, 60% of the population supports Bin Laden, the poll uses the term, "expresses confidence in", and using your own link, that is 60% of 4 million Muslims in Jordan, or 2.4 million people. Take that 2.4 million and put that into your 1 billion muslims in the world, and you are already beyond your "fraction of 1%". In fact that is about one quarter of a percent of all Muslims in the world. And that is only from one tiny Muslim country. Similar support in Saudi Arabia for example would put you up over 1% of all Muslims just from 2 countries. Don't even begin to look at Indonesia with 200 million.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The misinformation in this thread is extreme, I had to step in.

TheMesh

[edit on 22-8-2006 by TheMesh]

I always thought that it had something to do with the quick disipation of the Ottoman Empire and how the Arabs just demanded to not be underestimated. I think that with what the nation of Qatar is calling the first victory against Israel with that of the Lebanon Crisis, the radicals will finally give peace much more serious thought from now on.

There are many reformist and traditional Muslims who shudder at the very thought of being in a room with the extremist Muslims. While living in the UAE in '93, I met a Muslim doctor from Africa and an engineer from the UAE who were openly disgusted with their leaders, both religious and political, who called for jihad against the West. My engineer friend, Taher was particularly cheesed off with the squandering of his country's wealth by the Emirs on frivolities instead of infrastruture. He also decried the lack of secular education in the Muslim nations in the hard science fields especially enviromental sciences. He tended to be quiter on religious matters but he was definitely out of step with most of his fellow Muslims on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. He said that most Palestinians were idiots for not cooperating with peace process. He called them bad guests who didn't know when to leave. Which is about as bad an insult an Arab can speak against a fellow Muslim. Gotta be an Arab thing.

Originally posted by crgintx

He tended to be quiter on religious matters but he was definitely out of step with most of his fellow Muslims on the Israeli/Palestinian issue. He said that most Palestinians were idiots for not cooperating with peace process. He called them bad guests who didn't know when to leave.

I am afraid that your friend did not understand the issue. I would respectfully question why legitimate land owners had to vacate (with little or no compensation, at gunpoint) at the behest of an organized gang of European thugs no matter what their religion was. Bad guests? I think not.

Originally posted by TheMesh

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Did you read much in this thread? There are over a billion Muslims in the world and only a fraction of a percent are so-called "radicals"...

Not true. Polls have shown very substantial support for radicals in Muslim countries.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The misinformation in this thread is extreme, I had to step in.

I was referring to terrorists themselves.

By the way, your articled entitled 'Support for Bin Laden 'declining'' shows there is a discrepancy between those who have "confidence" in bin Laden whatever that means, and between those who think suicide bombings are justified. Nor does the article say anything about whether they think attacks against civilians are justified. And last but not least, the poll questioned only a thousand people in countries made up of millions.

You left this out of the article also..."The poll also found that concern about Islamic extremism was prevalent in several nations with a Muslim majority."

What else do you consider misinformation in this thread or is just information you don't like to hear?

[edit on 22-8-2006 by Jamuhn]

Originally posted by TheMesh

The misinformation in this thread is extreme

Which, of course, includes yours TheMesh.

I would respectfully suggest that you don't try to post information from the BBC as unbiased in the issue because it is not. The BBC is government controlled and as such will post as much anti-muslim feed as possible to support government supported fake terrorist programs.

Thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by Blarney63

To answer the initial question as to why radical islam: A minority of key people are misinterpreting small portions of the Qur'an to justify violence and what we call terrorism; people are brought up believing these misinterpretations; people feel hopelessness and perceive they are being invaded; people believe they will die as a martyr for the cause. Obviously, the full answer is much more complicated.

I will get the ball rolling here by apologizng for my insensitive and inaccurate comment equating serving in the milllitary with suicide bombers. Your turn simtek23 and ivanterrible. Thanks.

There's absolutely nothing for me to apoligize for, If you hate the Christian perspective of the world, that's your problem, not mine, I'll continue to express my views on Radical Islam as I see fit, not the way you want me too. Good Day, and how "crammy" of you to associate me with the Simtec person, you owe me an apology.
more links:
jihadwatch.org...

P.S. Anytime anyperson want's to express their opinion on this forum, whether you agree with it or not, A "busybody" always comes along to stifle, and try to get the poster to "modify" his/her views, well it's not only callous, but downright Un-American in my opinion, And Grow up and learn to take other people's views with consideration not hatred. If you perceive that someone is deliberately attacking your religous beliefs, well all's I can say is WELCOME TO THE CLUB!

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by crgintx
I am afraid that your friend did not understand the issue. I would respectfully question why legitimate land owners had to vacate (with little or no compensation, at gunpoint) at the behest of an organized gang of European thugs no matter what their religion was. Bad guests? I think not.

John, I've heard and read accounts of some Palestinians who would sell land to European Jews even though they didn't own the land. Many Palestinians were also killed by their fellow Palestinians when they sold land to the EJ's who were immigrating to the Holy Lands after WW2. What is largely not advertised in the West is that the Palestinans were told to flee by their fellow Arabs because the Israelis would kill and imprison them without cause just because they weren't Jewish. This fued between cousins has been going on for thousands of years and atrocities have been committed by both sides of the conflict. While the Arab Muslims view this latest round of violence as a victory, IMHO Hezbollah is still a another loser terrorist group who hides behind women and children and hasn't even dented the IDF military capability. This is only pyrrhic political victory for them. With the financial and military support of their Syrian and Iraanian masters, Hezbollah Shiites may dominate their fellow Muslims in Lebanon but given any length of peacetime, they're just as likely to alienate and marginalize the Sunni's and Druze Muslims into politcal alliances with the Christians.