Rosslyn, Rennes-le-Chateau and Sacred Geometry

Oh, great, another 'have-to-buy book. The material looks interesting enough, though, since I'm stuck on the non-Christian sacred geometry aspects of the Rennes-le-Chateau mystery ala Henry Lincoln. For some reason this piques my interest by relation.

Henry Lincoln, among others, has distanced himself from the religious aspects of Rennes-le-Chateau, and instead focussed on an apparent method of early map-making by the placement of monuments at specific locations throughout the Near East and Europe...extending from Jerusalem to Bornholm Island.

Now another author has come into my view and she just may have uncovered The Key which Lincoln was looking for. Here's hoping

heritage.scotsman.com...

Scribbles in the stonework of Rosslyn

"What is down there is an example of a lost system for measuring time and distance involving both latitude and longitude. It's a priceless mapping treasure."

This navigational teaching board - if that's what it is - forms the basis of Cowie's new book, The Rosslyn Matrix, which presents his case for Rosslyn Chapel having a cartographic explanation.

-snip-

The pylon-shaped grid is a longitudinal slice of 15 degrees (1/24th of the 360 degree globe) and its vertical central line is an ancient meridian. The cup shape isn't a cup, or grail chalice. It's an astronomical drawing of the orbits traced by the morning and evening star, Venus.

bolding mine

A link within the previous url will provide details about Ashley Crowe and her new book.

rosslynmatrix.com...

This factual story details a fascinating quest into Rosslyn Chapels overlooked architectural plans, revealing hitherto unobserved measurements and design themes which underpin the myths. The builders created very provocative carvings and installed layers of symbolic patterns within their structure, but this book balances spiritual interpretations with functional and practical reasoning.

The later chapters present a modern scientific investigation conducted on a special carving on the crypt wall. This enigmatic carving was created using elements from various land, sea, space and time measuring systems. Medieval astronomical and navigational methods are explored in order to understand its meaning and purpose. The results of this investigation reveal the carving is both a treasure map and a mapping treasure.

Now off to contact my book seller...most likely this will only be published in the UK.

A little backgrounder on Henry Lincoln

www.answers.com...

Books
1982: "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail" (with Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh)
1987: "The Messianic Legacy" (with Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh)
1991: "The Holy Place: Discovering the Eighth Wonder of the Ancient World" (or "The Holy Place: Decoding the Mystery of Rennes-Le-Château" or "The Holy Place: Saunière and the Decoding of the Mystery of Rennes-le-Château")
2002: "Key to the Sacred Pattern: The Untold Story of Rennes-le-Château"
2002: "The Templars' Secret Island: The Knights, The Priest and The Treasure" (with Erling Haagensen)

I have and have read all of these books. His adventure with Baigent and Leigh ended with the publication of The Messianic Legacy, after which Lincoln parted ways with them and embarked on another tack...the provable rather than the religious unprovable.

In The Holy Place, we see the first glimmers of his renewed passion in the pursuit of this 'new direction'.

from The Holy Place by Henry Lincoln (Corgi Books):

It is my suspicion that the builders of Rennes-le-Chateau will indeed prove to be part of a culture which produced Stonehenge and Carnac, and to date from approximately the same period, i.e. CI 1500 BC; far enough into the past for their activities to be, if not completely forgotten, then only dim folk memories by the time the Romans came to this part of the world.
(pg. 155)

Rash statements indeed...and very different from those found in The Holy Blood and the Holy grail, which started him on this journey. Next an excerp from his most readable and enjoyable book, summing up all his experiences in the form of a diary and furthering his obsession to get at the provable truths behind it all.

from Key to the Sacred Patterns by Henry Lincoln (St Martins Press)

Three decades of work have enabled me to glimpse the trace of gold buried beneath the thick dross of imagination and fantasy. The truth of Rennes-le-Chateau is no longer hidden behind a curtain of obscurity. But the truth is not the only truth of this story, though is is, I believe, the most important and most profound. Certainly it is the most solid - resting, as it does, upon solid and irrefutable facts. Nevertheless, that truth remains a Mystery. And yet other, if lesser mysteries also remain.

-snip-

At Rennes-le-Chateau, the ancient surveyors, measurers and mappers have left us the imperical reality of their amazing labours. they have left us the evidence of their skills and knowledge which, through many long centuries has been lost and forgotten. they speak to us across the years in the language of number and measure. No written words survive, yet their call to us is clear and confident and proud. It is time for us to listen - and to learn.
pg. 218

His latest work was co-authored by Erling Haagensen:

from The Templars' Secred Island by Henry Lincold and Erling Haagensen (cassell & Co)

A treasure house of wealth untold would have been satisfyingly exciting. A treasure house of knowledge will seem, to some people, to be a bitter disappointment.

Most of us find geometry and mathematics stupendously boring. we were glad to leave them behind us when we ended our enforced childhood studies. we are unaware how vital a part these dull little numbers and proportions play, not merely in upholding our civilization, but in controlling the very structure of the universe which we inhabit. It is therefore difficult for us to accept that the answer to this extraordinary riddle should be 'no more than' a geometric layout accomplished hundreds of years in the past. To many of us, this seems an anticlimax - 'a fuss about nothing'. we'd rather have a chest filled with gold and jewels.

Nevertheless, the 'treasure' has proved to be a body of knowledge - protected, preserved and passed on, century after century. the puzzle with which we are now confronted seems rather to be: 'Why the secrecy?' At the dawn of the third millenium, this does, indeed, seem an enigma which may speak more of our ignorance than our knowledge. What have we yet to learn - we, who consider ourselves to be so 'advanced' - so clever? What has our civilization forgotten - or suppressed?
pg 129-130

Indeed...and what relevance do those scribbles in Rosslyn have...?


[edit on 19-8-2006 by masqua]

To further round out Lincoln's new research...

Tracy Twyman interviews co-author of Holy Blood, Holy Grail, Henry Lincoln

in:
www.paranoiamagazine.com...

TT: Well, I'm just saying that if the same sort of geometry is laid out in all these different places...

HL: They're using the same measurement system, and they're separating the churches by the same distances. Therefore we are talking about a body of hidden knowledge. This moves into a contentious area in which people like to get into mumbo jumbo, and I don't. It would unquestionably have been considered dangerous knowledge over a thousand years ago. You'll have to remember that Galileo was shown torture instruments when he insisted that the Earth went around the Sun. It was dangerous knowledge. And consequently, this knowledge, which has been handed down over the generations, was always kept as privileged information, solis sacerdotibus - only for the initiated.

They were perfectly capable of laying out the geometry a thousand years ago, and I can demonstrate how. They would have laid out the Bornholm geometry in a matter of a few years, though it's been a sacred placed since megalithic times. There are over a thousand standing stones on the island, and the churches incorporate many of them into their actual structure. So churches, as is the case in general, have been superimposed on previously sacred sites. In the sixth century a bishop was saying to his flock, "Will you please cease performing pagan practices at sacred groves, rocks, and places where three track ways meet?" And these we find in the geometry. The churches now use the original pagan sacred sites, so the church has preserved what it was attempting to obliterate.

I've just searched through approximately 50 pages of Googled items and am having very little luck in finding anything which furthers this line of study.

But, I'll include my reasons for thinking this is so important;

• The geometrical method of 'map making' precedes, but was used by, the Church of Rome to built many of the chapels over the landscape of Europe, suggesting that they knew of this secret 'Sacred Geometry' and how it could aid a traveller by knowing the preset distances and directions from one place to another.
  
• The Templars were also 'in on' the secret as they obviously also used the same method in their building locations
  
• If we apply the system (once we have the 'over-all' key), we should be able to then find previously undiscovered material and structures by extrapolating from the 'known' locations.
  
• There are tantalizing clues that there are Templar structures in the Americas. Oak Island is a possibility, the Newport Tower another, and also many clues in a book I recently purchased; The Templars' Legacy in Montreal, the New Jerusalem by Francine Bernier. Could it be that we may soon be able to 'overlay' the emerging pattern and discover new Templar sites in the 'New World' as well?
  
• As Lincoln says in the above interview, this knowledge was (and is) considered dangerous...and my question is "Why?" Lincoln's last co-authored book was published 6 years ago. What I'm suspecting is that he has been effectively silenced somehow. Again, if true..."Why?"
  
• Baigent and Leigh have gone on to butt heads with Dan Brown in a legal battle over plagiarism in the case of his book 'The DaVinci Code' (which created an international frenzy). What has Lincoln to say on this, even though he was the original discoverer of the Rennes-le-Chateau mystery, co-authored the famous 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and 'The Messianic Legacy'(?)...bupkiss...nothing at all...just a resounding silence. Again..."Why?"
  

If this proposed system of relational bearing and distance is accurate, and it predates the current (as in the last couple of thousand years) western civilization, I wonder how it would overlay on say the Nasca lines in Peru, or the ancient road/settlement system detected under the sands of northern Africa and Asia?

Curiouser and curiouser.....

I was looking for something to sink my mind into next. Thanks for bringing this up.

Montana

Damn I like how you think. I was pondering for years that same question on what the templers could have found under the temple of Solomon. The only answer that makes sense now that you and H.L. raised it, is "hidden knowledge".
[quote/]As Lincoln says in the above interview, this knowledge was (and is) considered dangerous...and my question is "Why?" Lincoln's last co-authored book was published 6 years ago.

I would say to you, that certain knowledge has been and STILL is considered dangerous.
For if the truth comes out that is what has been kept secret for so long, then you have to ask the questions of WHERE this knowledge actually comes from and WHY.

With enough knowledge we begin to see that a much larger picture exists. If this picture is made public to those who don't comprehend the underlying knowledge, I could see some very bad things happening.

H.L. may have come to this same conclusion and decided, "What's the point"?

from Montana
I wonder how it would overlay on say the Nasca lines in Peru, or the ancient road/settlement system detected under the sands of northern Africa and Asia?

And plenty more. There's just so much area which has never been looked at in this way. It's almost too much to hope for. If there was a global system in place 2-6,000 years ago, I guess we'd have to re-evaluate our neolithic ancestors, eh?

The roads/settlements you mention sound very interesting...is there anything online you've noticed?

from Red_Dog_BOM
H.L. may have come to this same conclusion and decided, "What's the point"?

Geez...I hope not...I've been hoping to somehow be able to come across a discussion board where he is active. There was one I found where he did 'chair' a board and field questions, but it is now empty of all the material and the link is 'broken'. I'm not giving up though, Google is my friend.

The following is an interesting site I ran across. It contains many maps of an area in Scotland which has much to do with the Templars, since it is in Caithness...geomancy, pentagrams,standing stones, castles, chapels and the Sinclairs...it's all here...even the latest gathering of that distinguished family complete with photos. (see last link on home page)

(Henry Lincoln is also mentioned here in regard to Rennes-le-Chateau.)

It seems to me after reviewing this site that there are seperate groups all beginning to come to an agreement, albeit seperately; that in the megalithic period, standing stones, cairns and the placement of towns on the landscape was worked out according to the movement of Venus in the sky...the pentagram.

Now, "As above, so below" is starting to make practical sense.

Is it possible that the natural alignments of the peaks surrounding Rennes-le-Chateau became a template used far and wide by these ancient neolithic peoples? When it was discovered, did they consider it a sign from their Creator? There's no symbol I can think of that has more meaning the world around even today

Here's the site which I just found. All of it is very readable and thought provoking...enjoy!

www.maknap.com...

Do the ancient monuments and medieval castles and chapels of northern Scotland form a vast network of alignments and geometric figures? That is the claim of researcher David Bews from Caithness, the most northerly county of the British mainland. What is more, his work suggests that this secret was known by the great aristocratic families of Caithness, who were still building their castles, homes and burial grounds in accordance with this ground plan as late as the 18th century.

and, from another page;

The Sinclairs are more popularly associated with Rosslyn Chapel near Edinburgh, although their major holdings have long been in Caithness. The lands in Caithness were first granted to the St Clairs by David I in the 12th century. A prominent member of the family was Prince Henry St Clair, 'the Navigator', who became the Earl of Orkney in 1379.

As a postscript, here are the words Henry lincoln wrote when he discovered the natural pentagram of the mountaintops...

The Holy Place by Henry Lincoln

Mars is aligned four times and forms an irregular four-sided figure. Each planet makes a different number of alignments and each forms its own irregular pattern. Only one planet describes a precise and regular pattern in the sky - and that planet is Venus, the heavenly counterpart of the earthly Mary Magdalene - and the pattern that she draws as regularly as clockwork every eight years is a pentangle.

pg. 69

Most of the sacred geometry stuff is new to me, so forgive an ignorant question:
What is the benefit to mankind of this concept? What is the long term purpose?

Originally posted by Red_Dog_BOM
Most of the sacred geometry stuff is new to me, so forgive an ignorant question:
What is the benefit to mankind of this concept? What is the long term purpose?

Hardly ignorant at all...more like denying ignorance.

Here's the thing...

Suppose Lincoln is correct and people were using the pentagram much like we today use longitude and latitude and that the Church of Rome, as well as the Templars also used that system for the placement of towns, castles, churches, etc...

Wouldn't it become a way to find previously unknown 'places', important to those Ancients, the Church and the Templars?

It could be used as a 'map' to find those spots. If the method was used across the expanse of Europe and the British Isles, from Jerusalem to Scotland and Norway, it's a great enough of a find. If it was used in the America's, the ramifications could change the way we view history.

At the very least, it would make us rethink our views of Neolithic man around 8,000 years ago.

I would still have to classify it as interesting reading, but I don't really see it as very important in the scale of things.

Originally posted by Red_Dog_BOM
I would still have to classify it as interesting reading, but I don't really see it as very important in the scale of things.

Maybe this will pique your interest then...when the Templars were disbanded and hunted down in 1307, it was because they had accumulated an immense amount of gold. It was this huge hoard of gold which was the reason they were being hunted. In addition to all that wealth, they also had the biggest fleet of sailing ships in the world.

All the ships and gold disappeared and has not been heard of since.

A lot of Templars escaped to Scotland and the welcoming arms of the Sinclairs. They supposedly fought with the Scots at Bannockburn and also had something to do with Rosslyn.

If the pentagular system were to cause this treasure to be found, would that interest you more?

Personally, I'm more interested in the discovery of knowledge, books and art, but for some the dull thud of gold bars is much sweeter.


grammar edit

[edit on 22-8-2006 by masqua]

What an interesting thread, this has my curiosity now.I have also found many references to Venus, but mostly in Mayan works....such as the begining of the thier calander marking the first "rise" or "birth" of venus.Maybe there is a very easy system of mapping using Venus, that could help us locate more sacred sites.Pretty cool stuff, I may have to find the book you spoke of in the first post.

Something very big about little Roslyn Chapel. Ancient Jerusalem through Ethiopia and on to Rosslyn Scotland.
Very strange and Knights Templar stuff.

Dallas

you will find plenty of books about geomancy...

or feng shui

but this is hard to research this specially the first matter without falling into masons stuff...

good luck

I'm more interested in the story of the Templars. They appear to have been choosen to disseminate useful information to Humankind, but instead just used that "holy knowledge" for their own limited purposes. I can understand the need to keep some infomation or knowledge secret. I can understand that they may have been tasked with protecting the Ark of the Covenant. I can even understand their rise to power and the greed associated with it. But I cannot understand, if they had knowledge that could have help humankind move forward faster during those "dark ages", why they choose not to release it.

I'm off on a tangent here, but I think their skills at geometry and cosmology are interesting at best. At worse, they squandered a golden opportunity.

Thanks, everyone, for their thoughtful replies.

Rougevif...thank you for the Feng Shui connection in this. I had never thought of it, but it does make sense.

Now, back to Henry Lincoln and Sacred Geometry, because I have some newfound material.

The following is a series of replies which Henry Lincoln gave in an interview with Andrew Gough in August of this year...fresh off the press in his Arcadia website. This information came to me via 'spearjig', who I thank profusely (again). The entire interview is very interesting, not only in that it details HL's thinking today, but reveals that he knew about the Sacred Geometry before the writing of The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail. If you are at all interested in this subject, I advise reading this interview in detail and between the lines.

www.andrewgough.com...

6. Can I ask why the pentagonal geometry was not included in the Holy Blood and Holy Grail? Was it not fully developed at that time?

[reply] Oh no, it was well developed!

I would have thought so.

[reply] Yes, it was well developed. It has been in my films. But the Holy Blood and Holy Grail, after all was the exploration of a hypothesis that there may have been a continuing blood descent from Jesus. It is a different approach to the story altogether. We were looking for a historical background, and so the geometry and in fact, anything in particularly relevant to Rennes-Le-Château as such, was not really relevant to that book. In fact my two co-writers really are more concerned with historical fact than they are with Rennes-Le-Château. They know not very much about Rennes-Le-Château at all. It’s that historical background which is more of their interest, I think.



14. Do you believe that the pentagonal geometry extends over a greater expanse, possibly across the globe? Is it a uniformed pattern?

[reply] Yes! Yes, I think we are bound to find more. This because, when they built the 12 century churches on Bornholm, 4 of them specifically were constructed as observatories. They were using a science for very precise measurements of the earth, and so I am fairly sure we are going to find it in other places and that its historical background will go much further back than we expect. It is not a 12th century phenomena, it goes back to megalithic times and probably even before that.

16. Can I ask you to comment on the international sensation that the Da Vinci Code has caused, not dissimilar to the sensation that you caused with some of your books? How has the study of Rennes-Le-Château changed since that phenomena?

[reply] Oh, well of course people are coming now and asking where is Mary Magdalene buried. Some maniacs have written a book saying that Jesus is buried near here. This is rubbish. This is absolutely…There is not the tiniest fragment of evidence for any of this. But yes, back to the Da Vinci Code phenomena, what had happened, because again, as we did 20 years ago – 25 years ago – touched a nerve, part of the zeitgeist, and of course now with the growth of feminism everybody gets very excited about Mary Magdalene and the suppression of the feminine by the church and so on and so on. But, when we wrote Holy Blood and Holy Grail 20 odd years ago, the reaction to it was just as strong as though it has never been heard of before. But in fact it was nothing new at all. The only thing original in our book was that the blood descent from Jesus and Mary Magdalene continued. 20 years pass and a new generation grows up, especially those who were too young to have read the Holy Blood and Holy Grail or who were not even born, and so a new story hits them as if it has never been said before. And every 20 years it comes back again as if it has never been said before. And it is nonsense to react in the way that is presently going on. Brown’s book is noting more than a sort of not very good thriller draped around just the simple idea about the blood descent from Jesus.

More to come...

Interesting stuff.

Is there some significance to the distance between these points of interest?

I found this video about the Bornholm middle-age churches and their geometry, its very well explained by Henry Lincoln, and very intriguing. I live in Denmark and have visited Bornholm many times, its a beautiful island and I can only recommend visiting it.



And here is a more indepth explanation on the geometry by Erling Haagensen : www.merling.dk...